Why debate with non-believers?

[Hustle Man]

What's the point?

True Christians believe

1. Authority of the Bible (Old and New)
2. The Deity of Christ (Jesus is both fully God and fully Man)
3. Man is sinful (totally depraved) separated from God and in need of salvation
4. Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father
6. Jesus will return to Judge both the living and the dead
7. Those that believe will

Non Christians/believers do not believe and cannot believe any of the aboved mentioned because (according to Christian doctrine) they do not have the Holy Spirit and are incapable of believing.

Let them run the race according to their own beliefs they can't help that but the truth will come immediately after the last breath the moment the eyes are close!

Our job is to present the Gospel/ Holy Scripture and the Holy Spirit WILL draw whom he pleases and they WILL come and they WILL believe.

So my question to the true believers on this site; Why engage in futile arguments? Why debate with the lost about such topics as;

Young earth old earth, God's word not God's word, Flood no flood, why God killed women and children, how can some one kill thousands with the jaw bone of an ass, part the red sea, water into wine or how could a man be raised from the dead etc!

I say present and teach the word! If they want to learn and give a humble ear proceed but if not dust of your feet and move on! Do not continue to cast your pearls before swine, a place has been made for them and the father of lies!

As the writer of Ecclesiastes wrote:

"Futility of futilities! All is futility."

Humbly yours,

HM

[loco]

What's the point?

True Christians believe

1. Authority of the Bible (Old and New)
2. The Deity of Christ (Jesus is both fully God and fully Man)
3. Man is sinful (totally depraved) separated from God and in need of salvation
4. Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father
6. Jesus will return to Judge both the living and the dead
7. Those that believe will

Non Christians/believers do not believe and cannot believe any of the aboved mentioned because (according to Christian doctrine) they do not have the Holy Spirit and are incapable of believing.

Let them run the race according to their own beliefs they can't help that but the truth will come immediately after the last breath the moment the eyes are close!

Our job is to present the Gospel/ Holy Scripture and the Holy Spirit WILL draw whom he pleases and they WILL come and they WILL believe.

So my question to the true believers on this site; Why engage in futile arguments? Why debate with the lost about such topics as;

Young earth old earth, God's word not God's word, Flood no flood, why God killed women and children, how can some one kill thousands with the jaw bone of an ass, part the red sea, water into wine or how could a man be raised from the dead etc!

I say present and teach the word! If they want to learn and give a humble ear proceed but if not dust of your feet and move on! Do not continue to cast your pearls before swine, a place has been made for them and the father of lies!

As the writer of Ecclesiastes wrote:

"Futility of futilities! All is futility."

Humbly yours,

HM

This quote explains one reason why I still debate non-believers, even when I know that some of them will never believe:

This weekend Strobel told us of a time he was witnessing with someone who just was not receptive. He felt bad about this cold shoulder treatment and wondered why God had put him in that embarrassing situation. Well, years later a man came up to Strobel and thanked him for leading him to the Lord. Strobel didn’t recognize the man so he asked for an explanation and the man said he had been in the room the day he had shared his faith with the unreceptive man. But he had been on his hands and knees out of sight laying tile. He had listened to Strobel share the gospel. He thought about it for several days before inviting Jesus into his heart and life. He also shared what he heard with his entire family and they too decided to become Christians. Strobel refers to this as “ricochet evangelism.”

So witness because you never know who’s listening.

[Hustle Man]

This quote explains one reason why I still debate non-believers, even when I know that some of them will never believe:

Being non-receptive and/or giving the cold shoulder is vastly different from the comments and scoffing that takes place on this board! Witnessing is one thing but argueing with those that wave their fist or middle finger at our God and savior IMO should be left to their own demise!

I will pray for their salvation as I always do and share scripture as required but disrespectful rhetoric will be ignored. I say let them worship their father!

[columbusdude82]

What's the point?

True Christians believe

1. Authority of the Bible (Old and New)

Got evidence?

2. The Deity of Christ (Jesus is both fully God and fully Man)

Got evidence?

3. Man is sinful (totally depraved) separated from God and in need of salvation

No, I am not totally depraved. Maybe you are...

4. Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins;

I never asked him to do anything for me. Also, since I am not totally depraved like you, I don't need anyone (me or someone else) to die for me. NOT saying I'm perfect. Just saying, what have I done that is so bad? Jerked off to porn? Lusted after hot chicks?

and rose bodily from the dead

Got evidence?

5. Jesus ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father

Got evidence?

6. Jesus will return to Judge both the living and the dead

Got evidence?

Non Christians/believers do not believe and cannot believe any of the aboved mentioned because (according to Christian doctrine) they do not have the Holy Spirit and are incapable of believing.

No. I do not believe simply because I take a proposition about the world around me only as seriously as the evidence in its favor. Got evidence?

Young earth old earth

No argument there, science has won.

why God killed women and children

Ask Osama. He joins the ranks of Joshua and Moses and the others in carrying out God's judgments...

Do not continue to cast your pearls before swine

What an asshole 

[OzmO]

hmmm...  sounds like "religious elitist arrogance"....


We are the chosen ones  hahahaha,  everyone else will burn in hell....hahahahahah

[columbusdude82]

hmmm...  sounds like "religious elitist arrogance"....


We are the chosen ones  hahahaha,  everyone else will burn in hell....hahahahahah

Hush, or they will place Elisha's curse on you and the bears will come out of the woods and eat you...

[Hustle Man]

Hush, or they will place Elisha's curse on you and the bears will come out of the woods and eat you...

No need to hush your responses have condemned you already! Your unbelief is on the surface, you can run but you can't hide! Deep down in your inner most being you know you have to give an answer for your life and you have a price to pay; since you won't receive the price Christ Jesus has already paid!

I forgive you for your spiritual ignorance let's just hope God does!

CD82 as for calling me an "Asshole" it's ok because Jesus would have told you the same and he expects you to react and respond that way toward one of his!

I am depraved and I know I need a savior and I am ok with that truth, but you on the other hand will have to pay your own way and that my friend will be your undoing. Jesus came for sinners and that I am!

As for you Ozmo May God have mercy on you in your ignorance; you obviously worship the God of this world but that's ok too, he can forgive that! If you ever come to the point where you blasphem Jesus as the Christ (Deny Him as Savoir) there will be no hope for you and my pray is that he grabs a hold of your spirit and shakes the life into you, wake up brother!  Satan has your heart!

I lie not!

[Hustle Man]

Religion is for the soft minded

Who's talking religion you got it twisted brother! Christianity is so far from that, ask the Pharisees (splng)! Jesus whomped them good for being religious! Christianity is not works based, religion is!

[OzmO]

As for you Ozmo May God have mercy on you in your ignorance; you obviously worship the God of this world but that's ok too, he can forgive that! If you ever come to the point where you blasphem Jesus as the Christ (Deny Him as Savoir) there will be no hope for you and my pray is that he grabs a hold of your spirit and shakes the life into you, wake up brother!  Satan has your heart!

I lie not!

Good thing you won't have a body that will cause you to throw up when you find out the truth after you die.

"religious elitist arrogance"

So much so you've lost your God given ability to reason and see clearly and you are blinded while your self-righteousness which is wicked and cursed has become the fuel for the narrow minded condemnation of any others who will not join your cult.

Be blind oh faithful one as the illogical descriptions and contradictions of the Word of God fade from your view and you become a bias brainwashed Christian Warrior who feels special becuase he believes "God" choose him to be saved.  Go ahead and profess your unconditional love for all those unsaved just as the same alleged lie spewed forth by those who claim to know the word of god from ignorant superstitious shepherds and farmers thousands of years ago.  The same ones who believe and eclipse is something other than the moon passing before the sun.

again:

"religious elitist arrogance"


no different than:

"intellectual elitist snobbery" of your garden variety educated atheist. 

 

[columbusdude82]

No need to hush your responses have condemned you already! Your unbelief is on the surface, you can run but you can't hide! Deep down in your inner most being you know you have to give an answer for your life and you have a price to pay; since you won't receive the price Christ Jesus has already paid!

I forgive you for your spiritual ignorance let's just hope God does!

CD82 as for calling me an "Asshole" it's ok because Jesus would have told you the same and he expects you to react and respond that way toward one of his!

I am depraved and I know I need a savior and I am ok with that truth, but you on the other hand will have to pay your own way and that my friend will be your undoing. Jesus came for sinners and that I am!

As for you Ozmo May God have mercy on you in your ignorance; you obviously worship the God of this world but that's ok too, he can forgive that! If you ever come to the point where you blasphem Jesus as the Christ (Deny Him as Savoir) there will be no hope for you and my pray is that he grabs a hold of your spirit and shakes the life into you, wake up brother!  Satan has your heart!

I lie not!

Oh brother... please forgive us some more... You call me ignorant because I ask for evidence for extraordinary claims presented to me, and you "forgive" me for calling you an asshole? Do you? Do you really?

How about apologizing for calling everyone who disagrees with you a swine?

[Hustle Man]

CD82,

I called you spiritually ignorant which is vastly different from being mentally ignorant; which I do not think is the case in this conversation. It is obvious that you are not an ignorant person but it is obvious that you need something to be tangible in order to believe that it exist!

I will not apologize for using the same terminology as my Lord used when describing those who he calls unclean because they wallow in their own spiritual feces.

Jesus said in John 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

This is the reason for this thread, I see day in and day out God being mocked, the word of God and the unsearchable mystery of God being trampled under the feet of swine and I know it's only because he has not touched them yet!

I was a swine once trampling the pearls of believers but I have been washed (Spiritually) and not of mine own accord it was by his sovereign grace that I was saved and that not of myself! It was the gift of God and not of any works of my own so that I can not boast about my conversion.

And yes I do really forgive you for calling me an A-Hole and I know that it was said in retaliation for my referring the lost as "swine" but I hope you understand that it was a quote from my Lord!


Ozmo,

Forgive me for my ignorance but I really did not understand this comment:

"Good thing you won't have a body that will cause you to throw up when you find out the truth after you die."

I am sure meant for that to mean something to me but I just didn't get it sorry brother.

I must correct you in the title you so eloquently place upon me. "religious elitist arrogance"

Not me at all but this is your opinion of me and you are entitled to it!

Religious-Read my post in this thread I am not that all and why would you reach for straws when trying to debase someone you have never met?

Elitist- Why would you use this term to describe me; especially after I have made it clear that I too am a sinner saved by grace? Sinners saved by grace are no better than sinners who have not been saved by grace I made that clear when I called myself swine I am just a sinner saved by grace and the bible is clear on that! Wrong word to describe me.

Arrogant- Ahhh now that I am, this kind of goes along with the sinner thing! That's me arrogant as all get out but thats the flesh and I suppose if you were not so arrogant this thread would not have offended you so much but there is hope for you brother, take it to the cross!

I wonder why do you keep coming to the religious board, what are you looking for?

Would you agree that you are just as brainwashed as I am?

There is a war raging inside you, a war that's worse than the battle between the spirit and flesh! How do you reconcile your existent from one day to the next; this must be a very confusing time for you? Are you for God or against him?

I have never understood folk that claim they don't believe in God/Jesus or hate God's word and/or methods throughout history and then vehemently debate the word/bible. Or try to proselytize everyone that believes in God/Jesus away from God/Jesus into believing what they claim to be a lie, what's the point?

Christianity will never go away it's here to stay it will be here long after you return to the dust; you can't win brother!

I suggest you read and compare scripture (Old and New test) the bible is God's living word his creeds have endured the test of time the essential truths (mentioned above) will never fade away! I suggest you fall on your knees and ask God to forgive you in your arrogance he will humble you trust me and you will have peace!

Some scripture for my brothers and sisters in Christ; the words of Jesus to his disciples:

Matthew 10:13-15

 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

My brothers and sisters, I will not debate with the Lost about the mind of man as he interprets the word of God! I say again, present and teach the word! If they want to learn and give a humble ear proceed but if not dust of your feet and move on! Do not continue to cast your pearls before swine, a place has been made for them and the father of lies!


May God richly Bless you!

[Deicide]

When you grow up and can accept reality as a man, we can talk...until then...

[columbusdude82]

Are you Southern Baptist? Or member of some church with a Calvinist doctrine?

You seem to believe in predestination...

[Butterbean]

What's the point?

True Christians believe

1. Authority of the Bible (Old and New)
2. The Deity of Christ (Jesus is both fully God and fully Man)
3. Man is sinful (totally depraved) separated from God and in need of salvation
4. Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father
6. Jesus will return to Judge both the living and the dead
7. Those that believe will

Non Christians/believers do not believe and cannot believe any of the aboved mentioned because (according to Christian doctrine) they do not have the Holy Spirit and are incapable of believing.

Let them run the race according to their own beliefs they can't help that but the truth will come immediately after the last breath the moment the eyes are close!

Our job is to present the Gospel/ Holy Scripture and the Holy Spirit WILL draw whom he pleases and they WILL come and they WILL believe.

So my question to the true believers on this site; Why engage in futile arguments? Why debate with the lost about such topics as;

Young earth old earth, God's word not God's word, Flood no flood, why God killed women and children, how can some one kill thousands with the jaw bone of an ass, part the red sea, water into wine or how could a man be raised from the dead etc!

I say present and teach the word! If they want to learn and give a humble ear proceed but if not dust of your feet and move on! Do not continue to cast your pearls before swine, a place has been made for them and the father of lies!

As the writer of Ecclesiastes wrote:

"Futility of futilities! All is futility."

Humbly yours,

HM

Hustle Man, one reason I discuss these things w/non-believers is loco's ricochet theory.

Another is to try to help clarify misunderstandings of scripture.  For instance, columbusdude believed that men were killed by bears strictly for making fun of someone who is bald.  If people read MCWAY's reply they will see it wasn't that simple.  It can be easy to tend to take things out of context and misunderstand scripture but by earnestly searching for the true meaning (sometimes by just reading the surrounding text) things become more clear.

I have a very good friend who just could not get past the evolution thing.  She was letting that hold her back from seeking out who Christ is.  She didn't even really know that much about evolution; she just had accepted it as fact in high school or college and hadn't delved into it herself.  We would have interesting discussions about it and the only time she started to wonder about God was when I asked her if she knew everything there was to know about everything.  She admitted that she could still learn things.  She is now a Christian

You're correct though, it's our job to present the gospel.  It's up to the person and the Holy Spirit after that.

[columbusdude82]

For instance, columbusdude believed that men were killed by bears strictly for making fun of someone who is bald.  If people read MCWAY's reply they will see it wasn't that simple.

Leaving aside the truth or relevance of McWay's reply, the fact is, the story says these kids made fun of Baldhead, Baldhead got mad, and put a curse on them. Then his Sky-daddy sent bears out the woods to maul them.

What sort of superstitious fool would believe such a story?

Who would believe that bears lurk around waiting to maul people who make fun of curse-casting bald men?!

[Hustle Man]

Are you Southern Baptist? Or member of some church with a Calvinist doctrine?

You seem to believe in predestination...

I have ran the gamut with churchs and different doctrines but with that said I attend a Orthodox Presbyterian church which is reformed and yes I do believe in predestination!

Where or how I worship has nothing to do with the question posed; why one should or should not debate with non-believers about scripture!

I will discuss scripture with anyone in length and respect theirs view points, but the truth of the matter is that no one can hear these words of life without the intervention of the Holy Spirit and that is truth. Can I get an AMEN from my brothers/sisters in Christ?


 

[Hustle Man]

Leaving aside the truth or relevance of McWay's reply, the fact is, the story says these kids made fun of Baldhead, Baldhead got mad, and put a curse on them. Then his Sky-daddy sent bears out the woods to maul them.

What sort of superstitious fool would believe such a story?

Who would believe that bears lurk around waiting to maul people who make fun of curse-casting bald men?!

Why does this bother you that someone other than yourself would believe this? Why ridicule any that believes this story? Does everyone have to believe what you believe?

[columbusdude82]

So you believe in predestination. You believe your Sky-daddy has picked you, since before you were born, to be your friend and then party with you forever after you die. You also believe that the same Sky-daddy has picked the rest of us, since before we were born, for hell-fire and damnation.

I would want nothing to do with such a Sky-daddy. He is surely not worthy of my worship or praise.

[Hustle Man]

So you believe in predestination. You believe your Sky-daddy has picked you, since before you were born, to be your friend and then party with you forever after you die. You also believe that the same Sky-daddy has picked the rest of us, since before we were born, for hell-fire and damnation.

I would want nothing to do with such a Sky-daddy. He is surely not worthy of my worship or praise.

I gathered that much so suit yourself doesnot bother me!

Old saying, "you can lead a horse..."

[columbusdude82]

But you already said your Sky-daddy already decided long ago which horses can be led and which can't...

[Butterbean]

but the truth of the matter is that no one can hear these words of life without the intervention of the Holy Spirit and that is truth. Can I get an AMEN from my brothers/sisters in Christ?


 

By "hear" you mean understand right HM?

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

[Hustle Man]

For my brother and sister (Loco/STella) respectively, like you I want nothing more than for everyone to hear the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, accept the truth and taste the riches afforded to those that believe here and now and in eternity! But the truth of the matter is, the only way mockers and scoffers will ever turn to Christ is through the unction of God the Holy Spirit, agreed?

I will continue to give scripture on this matter because God says in Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

Many on this board are akin to those Jews mentioned in John 6. They grumbled because of the parabolic language Jesus used and he plainly told them "no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." this is my point brothers and sisters, unless our "SKYDADDY" enables them to believe they will continue to scoff at God's word and hate everything about God/Jesus and those that believe in him. It's not our job to convince these people, that is up to the Holy Spirit!

AMEN?

[Hustle Man]

By "hear" you mean understand right HM?

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Correct!

[OzmO]

Ozmo,

Forgive me for my ignorance but I really did not understand this comment:

"Good thing you won't have a body that will cause you to throw up when you find out the truth after you die."

I am sure meant for that to mean something to me but I just didn't get it sorry brother.

Did you ever watch the movie Matrix? Remember when Neo found out the truth?   when he threw up?  When you die you won;t have a body right?  You won;t have a stomach filled with bile.  So when you find out the truth you won't have a body to make you throw up.

Ozmo,

Forgive me for my ignorance but I really did not understand this comment:

"Good thing you won't have a body that will cause you to throw up when you find out the truth after you die."

I am sure meant for that to mean something to me but I just didn't get it sorry brother.

I must correct you in the title you so eloquently place upon me. "religious elitist arrogance"

Not me at all but this is your opinion of me and you are entitled to it!

Religious-Read my post in this thread I am not that all and why would you reach for straws when trying to debase someone you have never met?

Elitist- Why would you use this term to describe me; especially after I have made it clear that I too am a sinner saved by grace? Sinners saved by grace are no better than sinners who have not been saved by grace I made that clear when I called myself swine I am just a sinner saved by grace and the bible is clear on that! Wrong word to describe me.

Arrogant- Ahhh now that I am, this kind of goes along with the sinner thing! That's me arrogant as all get out but thats the flesh and I suppose if you were not so arrogant this thread would not have offended you so much but there is hope for you brother, take it to the cross!

Religious

True Christians believe

1. Authority of the Bible (Old and New)
2. The Deity of Christ (Jesus is both fully God and fully Man)
3. Man is sinful (totally depraved) separated from God and in need of salvation
4. Jesus died a substitutionary atoning death for our sins; and rose bodily from the dead
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father
6. Jesus will return to Judge both the living and the dead
7. Those that believe will

Those are you words.

Elitist and Arrogant

If they want to learn and give a humble ear proceed but if not dust of your feet and move on! Do not continue to cast your pearls before swine, a place has been made for them and the father of lies!

followed by

As for you Ozmo May God have mercy on you in your ignorance;

and

Satan has your heart

You and Certain atheists are very much the same.

I wonder why do you keep coming to the religious board, what are you looking for?

I have great and educational time debating with brainwashed folks like yourself.

Would you agree that you are just as brainwashed as I am?

Brainwashed would be someone who believes in something when evidence is stacked against that belief.   

That would be you sir.

There is a war raging inside you, a war that's worse than the battle between the spirit and flesh! How do you reconcile your existent from one day to the next; this must be a very confusing time for you? Are you for God or against him?

I have never understood folk that claim they don't believe in God/Jesus or hate God's word and/or methods throughout history and then vehemently debate the word/bible. Or try to proselytize everyone that believes in God/Jesus away from God/Jesus into believing what they claim to be a lie, what's the point?

No war inside me.   I attack religion because of it's evil, I attack Christianity because of it's arrogance.

I'm not living my life thinking i am a wretched imperfect beast feeling guilty for my GOD GIVEN desires and fallacies.   

I pity you for that.

P.S.  for someone who didn't want to "debate" with non believers you are doing a good job of it.   

[Butterbean]

Leaving aside the truth or relevance of McWay's reply, the fact is, the story says these kids made fun of Baldhead, Baldhead got mad, and put a curse on them. Then his Sky-daddy sent bears out the woods to maul them.
 

SImplified that is what the text states.  Are you ignoring MCWAY's helpful explanation?   If so, why?  Do you think we simply dropped the bomb on Japan for no reason? 

Who would believe that bears lurk around waiting to maul people who make fun of curse-casting bald men?!

Are you saying that you think the bears were consciously hanging out in that area waiting for a command from God to attack the youths?