Necessary Evils

[Nordic Superman]

This is somewhat on the topic 240 was on when he said he was back to the republican side of the spectra. That, it is certain non-attractive events such as war and the motivation for oil which keeps you accustomed to your lovely western lifestyle. Hell, from what I've seen of Germany, UK/US you don't have to work to live like a king.

My real question is, what if the drug trade (might be facilitated by government agencies), the wars, maybe even the implications of the US government committing 9/11 (even tho I personally don't think they had direct involvement) were all an elaborate political ecosystem that kept life as we know it chugging along as it does.

I think this does infact all happen to some degree.

If I was was to orchestrate a government I too would probably undertake such measure if I saw it necessary. Of course my personality sways towards "a good few must die for many".

So all you hippies and far lefties, do you think western society would still operate efficiently if we stopped eating meat and everything was true and good?

[240 is Back]

the minute i realized i wouldn't give up my standard of life in order to make things right, i realized i was being a hypocrite.  I could no longer hate on the war... cause without the oil, well, things wouldn't be as good here.  So what can you do?  SHit is gonna happen whether you complain about it or not.  So you can live the spoils and enjoy it, or spend life complaining about the reasons you have such a great life.  I think most of the repub candidates are scum, sure.  But I cannot call for an end to the war. 

[Hugo Chavez]

No, you can't/shouldn't and don't have to fight evil with evil.  You just become the bad guy, then what?  The majority of people in the world are good by nature.  Yes we all have a dark side, but when good is attacked, people's good sides almost always jump to aid/side with good--as long as we all still eat meat

[Nordic Superman]

No, you can't/shouldn't and don't have to fight evil with evil.

Prove to me, with evidence, that any government has been a success with being truly "good".

I think it's an impossibility.

Even the nature of democracy dictates that their must be an underdog (third world labour) for the rest the be well off.

Any evidence democracy survives if all nations were equally economically powerful?

[Hugo Chavez]

Prove to me, with evidence, that any government has been a success with being truly "good".

I think it's an impossibility.

Even the nature of democracy dictates that their must be an underdog (third world labour) for the rest the be well off.

Any evidence democracy survives if all nations were equally economically powerful?

At times, we have!!!  Nothing is or can be pure good, everything has its dark side so there is probably no instance in any country's history where you can illustrate 100% purity... The problem arises when you've crossed over entirely to the dark side by making evil deeds policy.

[Hugo Chavez]

the minute i realized i wouldn't give up my standard of life in order to make things right, i realized i was being a hypocrite.  I could no longer hate on the war... cause without the oil, well, things wouldn't be as good here.  So what can you do?  SHit is gonna happen whether you complain about it or not.  So you can live the spoils and enjoy it, or spend life complaining about the reasons you have such a great life.  I think most of the repub candidates are scum, sure.  But I cannot call for an end to the war. 

You falsely limit the possibilities.  No oil does not HAVE to mean jack shit.  Oh I'm sure that's exactly what they would want you to believe and it seems you do.  Launching the country on a path toward alternative real-power energy would be akin to a moon race for this century.  Industy would benefit in such a race, not lose out and you know, what ever the solution, they'd find a way to charge the masses for it, so come on... Instead of trillions on war, where would trillions get us racing for new energy solutions.  The answer is there bubba and it doesn't make you a hypocrite for demanding it.

[24KT]

You falsely limit the possibilities.  No oil does not HAVE to mean jack shit.  Oh I'm sure that's exactly what they would want you to believe and it seems you do.  Launching the country on a path toward alternative real-power energy would be akin to a moon race for this century.  Industy would benefit in such a race, not lose out and you know, what ever the solution, they'd find a way to charge the masses for it, so come on... Instead of trillions on war, where would trillions get us racing for new energy solutions.  The answer is there bubba and it doesn't make you a hypocrite for demanding it.

It would if you screamed SPAM everytime someone presented it to you.   

[militarymuscle69]

Trillions wouldn't even fund the paper to draw up the new energy idea.

[Nordic Superman]

At times, we have!!!  Nothing is or can be pure good, everything has its dark side so there is probably no instance in any country's history where you can illustrate 100% purity... The problem arises when you've crossed over entirely to the dark side by making evil deeds policy.

No, the times things appear good, countries are infact living off past deads, wars etc.

Living off the debt of past wars etc.

[Hugo Chavez]

Trillions wouldn't even fund the paper to draw up the new energy idea.

If you say so

[Hugo Chavez]

It would if you screamed SPAM everytime someone presented it to you.   

That's just fucking ignorant... Going plop plop fiz fiz in your gas tank is NOT "alternative energy"  and no, you may not take this as a go to pimp your pills.  It will get split out and moved or deleted. 

[24KT]

That's just fucking ignorant... Going plop plop fiz fiz in your gas tank is NOT "alternative energy"  and no, you may not take this as a go to pimp your pills.  It will get split out and moved or deleted. 

No, ...but your comment is.   

I take it you haven't read the Orlando sentinal?

[Decker]

Let's look at the energy situation.

Oil/fossil fuels will run out.  It is a non-renewable finite source of energy.

At some point, an alternative fuel source will have to be addressed.  Today's Conservatives seem to want to ride the oil gravy train to its conclusion without serious efforts to find alternative fuels.  That's just plain stupid.

[militarymuscle69]

If you say so

I mean serious, you don't realize what it would cost to not only find an alternative source, but to transfer everything that currently runs on petro to this new fuel...it isn't worth it

[militarymuscle69]

Let's look at the energy situation.

Oil/fossil fuels will run out.  It is a non-renewable finite source of energy.

At some point, an alternative fuel source will have to be addressed.  Today's Conservatives seem to want to ride the oil gravy train to its conclusion without serious efforts to find alternative fuels.  That's just plain stupid.

Stupid? at least conservatives have a plan. What is your plan oh smart one

How fo you know fossil fuels will run out? when will they run out?

[Hugo Chavez]

No, ...but your comment is.   

I take it you haven't read the Orlando sentinal?

No and don't post it.  It's not alternative energy...  If I come out with a fuel injection system that gets 200 mpg it still uses gas and does not constitute an alternate to gas now does it!  It just makes it so I use less, it's not alternate energy.  Hydrogen is an alternate to gas.  Plop Plop Fizz Fizz is not.

[Decker]

Stupid? at least conservatives have a plan. What is your plan oh smart one

How fo you know fossil fuels will run out? when will they run out?

Burning through all available oil with no alternative plan is not a plan at all but foolish consumption.

My plan is make alternative energy R&D the new national goal--like the space race of the '60s. 

Granted that would require a leader with foresight, intelligence and resolve, so we'd have to wait until Bush was out of office.

[Hugo Chavez]

Burning through all available oil with no alternative plan is not a plan at all but foolish consumption.

My plan is make alternative energy R&D the new national goal--like the space race of the '60s. 

Granted that would require a leader with foresight, intelligence and resolve, so we'd have to wait until Bush was out of office.

Oh SNAP

[militarymuscle69]

Burning through all available oil with no alternative plan is not a plan at all but foolish consumption.

My plan is make alternative energy R&D the new national goal--like the space race of the '60s. 

Granted that would require a leader with foresight, intelligence and resolve, so we'd have to wait until Bush was out of office.

right, so name me one Dem that has a chance of being president that has a viable option....

[Decker]

right, so name me one Dem that has a chance of being president that has a viable option....

Why?  You asked for my plan. 

I just know that under Bush we will continue his intellectually and morally bankrupt energy policies to the detriment of our country.

[Nordic Superman]

Talk about thread hi jacking.

You pathetic excuses for humans need to go to etiquette lessons and get some class!

[Decker]

Talk about thread hi jacking.

You pathetic excuses for humans need to go to etiquette lessons and get some class!

Your question makes no sense:

"So all you hippies and far lefties, do you think western society would still operate efficiently if we stopped eating meat and everything was true and good?"

I would answer it if I knew what you were talking about.

I'll try though....if everything were true and good then society would operate efficiently.

[Decker]

Sorry, I see that this is your real question:

My real question is, what if the drug trade (might be facilitated by government agencies), the wars, maybe even the implications of the US government committing 9/11 (even tho I personally don't think they had direct involvement) were all an elaborate political ecosystem that kept life as we know it chugging along as it does.

...

Do the ends justify the means?  Maybe.

[240 is Back]

Would anyone here live a life of homelessless if it meant crating peace on earth?

Would you give your left leg so that people you'll never meet will stop killing other people you'll never meet?

I wouldn't I doubt many here would.  It's easy to take moral high road and talk about what we should do.  But reality is, nearly all world govts operate on a utilitarian platform - most good for most people. 

If they kill the drug thing, then we have a recession.
If they end the war in Iraq, we lose oil reserves.

I'd rather live well and let them keep killing each other - as they've been doing since beginning of time.  It's morally corrupt, and I admit it.  I can't shit on them for it.  Cause like the other 6B people on earth, I"m a selfish prick 

[Hugo Chavez]

Would anyone here live a life of homelessless if it meant crating peace on earth?

Would you give your left leg so that people you'll never meet will stop killing other people you'll never meet?

I wouldn't I doubt many here would.  It's easy to take moral high road and talk about what we should do.  But reality is, nearly all world govts operate on a utilitarian platform - most good for most people. 

If they kill the drug thing, then we have a recession.
If they end the war in Iraq, we lose oil reserves.

I'd rather live well and let them keep killing each other - as they've been doing since beginning of time.  It's morally corrupt, and I admit it.  I can't shit on them for it.  Cause like the other 6B people on earth, I"m a selfish prick 

Yes, I would give my life for a true world peace, a world in harmony.  That's a fiction, perfection cannot be attained but it can be reached for.  But if a magic wand could be waived and the world made safe for all, equal for all, I would take that trade.  I would live poor, lose a leg, lose my life.  It would not only be for those that I don't know, but obviously for those who I do know, my family and the generations to follow, my life would be a small thing for that trade.