The End of god; man poised to announce creation of artificial life...

[Deicide]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange

[columbusdude82]

Loco will come here and unleash a rant about fresh dinosaur droppings in 5... 4... 3... 2...

[MCWAY]

So, man is going to prove that there is no Creator by the "creation" of artificial life (made with God's resources, using God's physical laws).

Not to mention that it took lots of scientists, BILLIONS of dollars, COUNTLESS man-hours of research, and DECADES of time.

Now, when you cam make animals (of all types), vegetation, and man (in less than a week), then give me a call.

 

[OTHstrong]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange

If you scroll down the subject page you will notice that you have started so many threads without any reponses or vary little responses. Doesn;t this tell you that nobody cares about your non-sense, especially after McWay sent you to scool big time.

[columbusdude82]

If you scroll down the subject page you will notice that you have started so many threads without any reponses or vary little responses. Doesn;t this tell you that nobody cares about your non-sense, especially after McWay sent you to scool big time.

Oh the irony...

[Deicide]

If you scroll down the subject page you will notice that you have started so many threads without any reponses or vary little responses. Doesn;t this tell you that nobody cares about your non-sense, especially after McWay sent you to scool big time.

Well Mr. Dyslexic, I don't know. McWay hardly sent me to school and did not address a single argument I made, rather he just waved his hands in dismissal. You call that being sent to school?

It is a good thing that the established academic community, be it in the field of history or science, readliy dismisses the screeds of fairy tale nonsense which you claim have been written by the creator of the universe. They do so because they have sufficient cranial matter to recognise fabrication when they see it; you sir, however, do not.

[OTHstrong]

Oh the irony...

In case you did not notice my thread about dinosaurs got over 100 post, there is no irony.

[OTHstrong]

Well Mr. Dyslexic, I don't know. McWay hardly sent me to school and did not address a single argument I made, rather he just waved his hands in dismissal. You call that being sent to school?

It is a good thing that the etsablished academic community, be it in the field of history or science, readliy dismisses the screeds of fairy tale nonsense which you claim have been written by the creator of the universe. They do so because they have sufficient cranial matter to recognise fabrication when they see it; you sir, however, do not.

Are you suggesting that people that believe in God are not educated? You know that people that have achieved high levels of education believe in the Bible, your assumption is biased and I can flip the coin on you and say your way of thinking is stupid and you don't have sufficient cranial matter to recognise that, but you wouldn't care if I said that because the fact of the matter is there will always be different opinions that we will never agree upon, to suggest that one is un reasonable is being unreasonable. Lets forget about the gossip and lets try to have decent debates in the future without you guys contantly implying that the way we think is horrible when in fact we could vary well be right

[OzmO]

I wonder what percentage of people with "PHD's" in biology and physics believe in god?

[OTHstrong]

I wonder what percentage of people with "PHD's" in biology and physics believe in god?

There are still some, and thats not the point. The point is being credited with on education does not mean that your faith is right.

[Deicide]

I wonder what percentage of people with "PHD's" in biology and physics believe in god?

Not many; 93% of the members of the National Academy of Science are nonbelievers. More nonbelievers amongst biologist than physicists though, understandably so.

[Hustle Man]

There are still some, and thats not the point. The point is being credited with on education does not mean that your faith is right.

Like I said Onetimehard, no Holy Spirit, no comprehension; it doesn't matter if someone has a "Piled higher and Deeper (Ph.D.)" in Anti-Christian or is a member of the National Academy of Satan's Imps, no Holy Spirit, no comprehension!

Brother you are wasting time with these guys!

Colossians 2:7-9
 
7 Have the roots [of your being] firmly and deeply planted [in Him, fixed and founded in Him], being continually built up in Him, becoming increasingly more confirmed and established in the faith, just as you were taught, and abounding and overflowing in it with thanksgiving.

8 See to it that no one (OzmO, CD82, Trapezkerl or a PhD) carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men's ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).

9 For in Him (Jesus) the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].

[OTHstrong]

Like I said Onetimehard, no Holy Spirit, no comprehension; it doesn't matter if someone has a "Piled higher and Deeper (Ph.D.)" in Anti-Christian or is a member of the National Academy of Satan's Imps, no Holy Spirit, no comprehension!

Brother you are wasting time with these guys!

Colossians 2:7-9
 
7 Have the roots [of your being] firmly and deeply planted [in Him, fixed and founded in Him], being continually built up in Him, becoming increasingly more confirmed and established in the faith, just as you were taught, and abounding and overflowing in it with thanksgiving.

8 See to it that no one (OzmO, CD82, Trapezkerl or a PhD) carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men's ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).

9 For in Him (Jesus) the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].

I understand and I agree, but when I first got on these religious threads a few months ago we never bickered or called each other names we just debated and everybody gave their veiw point and was respected, but now things are out of hand a bit. It seems people want to play "I know you are but what am I"  Ozmo's OK but TRAP and CD82 need to give everybody a fair chance to state their opinons and stop acting like they are in grade 3.

[OzmO]

Not many; 93% of the members of the National Academy of Science are nonbelievers. More nonbelievers amongst biologist than physicists though, understandably so.

Are they full on athiests that believe there is no god and we are just a piece of flesh with a consciousness?  Or is it 93% that don;t believe in Christianity or Islam or some form of organized religion?

[Deicide]

Are they full on athiests that believe there is no god and we are just a piece of flesh with a consciousness?  Or is it 93% that don;t believe in Christianity or Islam or some form of organized religion?

Athiests; flesh with consciousness. Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

[OzmO]

Athiests; flesh with consciousness. Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

It's not difficult to accept if it were the truth or if in fact we knew everything there is to know.  But we don't and as an "educated person" you should know that.   You should know we are far from knowing many things.  In the absence of evidence i can see why an athiests feels the way they do.  My son is a borderline athiests.

But by acknowledging you are only flesh with consciousness you turn away from your soul and your spirit and cannot see it the way i do.   Yes, it is nothing but a belief based on little verifiable fact other than my own personal experience and some outside of that.   I agree whole heartedly that religion for the most part is a pile of crap.  But, i do know just how little we really know, even in the mists of "scientists that over the centuries have been mistaken about a great many things.

[Deicide]

It's not difficult to accept if it were the truth or if in fact we knew everything there is to know.  But we don't and as an "educated person" you should know that.   You should know we are far from knowing many things.  In the absence of evidence i can see why an athiests feels the way they do.  My son is a borderline athiests.

But by acknowledging you are only flesh with consciousness you turn away from your soul and your spirit and cannot see it the way i do.   Yes, it is nothing but a belief based on little verifiable fact other than my own personal experience and some outside of that.   I agree whole heartedly that religion for the most part is a pile of crap.  But, i do know just how little we really know, even in the mists of "scientists that over the centuries have been mistaken about a great many things.

There are a couple of issues on the table here Ozmo. First you like to poo poo science all the time as fallible and liable to error; yes, that is the meat and drink of science, making mistakes and correcting them. Moreover if science were as faulty as you like to claim we wouldn't be having this conversation via the internet; thank science for that. Thank science for your health. Thank science for the knowledge you have to lift and grow and cut.

Neuroscience has come far and I don't know if you have kept up. Our consciousness resides in our brains, physical corporeal matter. This can be easily seen with such brain disorders as aphasia, which results in the miscomprehension of language. How then can a disembodied spirit, bereft of a brain speak and recognise language, among other things? Magic?!

[OzmO]

There are a couple of issues on the table here Ozmo. First you like to poo poo science all the time as fallible and liable to error; yes, that is the meat and drink of science, making mistakes and correcting them. Moreover if science were as faulty as you like to claim we wouldn't be having this conversation via the internet; thank science for that. Thank science for your health. Thank science for the knowledge you have to lift and grow and cut.

I think i may not be communicating what i think about science in a way that gets my point accross, I'm not "poo pooing"  science as fallible and liable to error, I'm poo pooing those who use science as the basis for their arrogance and using the science's fallacies and errors as the basis for that argument.   

Science is fantastic, but it's far from complete.

Neuroscience has come far and I don't know if you have kept up. Our consciousness resides in our brains, physical corporeal matter. This can be easily seen with such brain disorders as aphasia, which results in the miscomprehension of language. How then can a disembodied spirit, bereft of a brain speak and recognize language, among other things? Magic?!

I don't know how.  Do you know why and how dark matter works? Do you know why gravity works? I'm sure you can identify all these things and provide mathematical formulas and such, but has science been able to explain why gravity works?

[Decker]

I wonder what percentage of people with "PHD's" in biology and physics believe in god?

I don't think that there's a big deal about a lot of people believing in god...PhDs, MDs or whichever.

I think that's fine.  What I do not think is accurate is that a belief in god necessarily translates into a belief in the god portrayed in the Old or New Testament...or both.

That's a leap of faith that many bible advocates make and that is unwarranted.

[Necrosis]

There are a couple of issues on the table here Ozmo. First you like to poo poo science all the time as fallible and liable to error; yes, that is the meat and drink of science, making mistakes and correcting them. Moreover if science were as faulty as you like to claim we wouldn't be having this conversation via the internet; thank science for that. Thank science for your health. Thank science for the knowledge you have to lift and grow and cut.

Neuroscience has come far and I don't know if you have kept up. Our consciousness resides in our brains, physical corporeal matter. This can be easily seen with such brain disorders as aphasia, which results in the miscomprehension of language. How then can a disembodied spirit, bereft of a brain speak and recognise language, among other things? Magic?!

that doesnt prove that the spirit resides in the brain it is a conclusion. another conclusion is that the brain is the only way for the spirit to interact with the material world, hence it is a transmitter.

in studies on repeated transcranial stimulation people were asked to describe the images they were witnessing as a brain area was stimulated. even when the same brain area was stimulated(say prefrontal cortex for better illustration) the images were always different.

this has lead some to beleive that the brain is similar to a television and the cable the mind etc..

eccles and penrose come to mind.

i admit your conclusion is the more logical one, but its just a conclusion based on less then stellar knowledge. to say that consciousnous is understood is completely false, i know a few neurologists, and have been taught by some good ones. I only discussed this topic with one of them but the amount of info they could give based on evidence was little to none.

we are lightyears away, shit we just figured out what the amygdala really does a couple years ago. this shit is reverse engineered so i would have a little skepticism from the research.

[Deicide]

that doesnt prove that the spirit resides in the brain it is a conclusion. another conclusion is that the brain is the only way for the spirit to interact with the material world, hence it is a transmitter.

in studies on repeated transcranial stimulation people were asked to describe the images they were witnessing as a brain area was stimulated. even when the same brain area was stimulated(say prefrontal cortex for better illustration) the images were always different.

this has lead some to beleive that the brain is similar to a television and the cable the mind etc..

eccles and penrose come to mind.

i admit your conclusion is the more logical one, but its just a conclusion based on less then stellar knowledge. to say that consciousnous is understood is completely false, i know a few neurologists, and have been taught by some good ones. I only discussed this topic with one of them but the amount of info they could give based on evidence was little to none.

we are lightyears away, shit we just figured out what the amygdala really does a couple years ago. this shit is reverse engineered so i would have a little skepticism from the research.

Whereever we are we are also light years ahead of the crap in the Bible.

[OzmO]

Whereever we are we are also light years ahead of the crap in the Bible.

I expected a better retort than that from you.

You sound like a fundy now.   

[Deicide]

I expected a better retort than that from you.

You sound like a fundy now.   

You know Ozmo, every time you make statements like this you subtly allude to the possibility that you actually give credence to the myths and fairy tales in the Bible. Talking snakes? One Boat=Entire Biosphere? Calling Plagues Down on Egypt?  Ressurrected Mangods? Why do you even begin to entertain the possibility of this stuff?

[OzmO]

You know Ozmo, every time you make statements like this you subtly allude to the possibility that you actually give credence to the myths and fairy tales in the Bible. Talking snakes? One Boat=Entire Biosphere? Calling Plagues Down on Egypt?  Ressurrected Mangods? Why do you even begin to entertain the possibility of this stuff?

Yeah,  and you always, while demonstrating a high education and giving great information, dumb down the debate by always polarizing it to Bible fundies and extreme athiests.

Have you ever heard of the color gray?  (or grey?)

At what point will you get it into your head that i don't believe the Bible the way the fundamentalists and literalists do?

Does your only strength in a debate show when you argue with someone who thinks the world stood still for 24 hours and was made in 6 days?

and do you always revert cheesy weak statements like:

Whereever we are we are also light years ahead of the crap in the Bible.

When someone with a similar education level in the sciences devalues your assertion on Neuroscience as narrow?

hmmm?

[MCWAY]

Well Mr. Dyslexic, I don't know. McWay hardly sent me to school and did not address a single argument I made, rather he just waved his hands in dismissal. You call that being sent to school?

Waived my hands in dismissal? I DON'T THINK SO!!! Not only did I address your arguments (which, from the looks of them, really belong to one Russell Humphreys, courtesy of his "jesusneverexisted.com" site), but I countered with facts, gleaned from traditional Bible scholars and references to historical documents.

And, all of this serve the purpose of proving your initial (and supremely screwy) claims undisputably FALSE:

First, you claimed that there was no extra-biblical references to Jesus Christ; that was FALSE!

Once that got shot down, then you limped into the take that Josephus was the only one; but, it was a forgery. I showed that this claim was FALSE!!

Then, when your take on Josephus sunk, you tried wailing on the Tacitus account, first claiming the whole thing was a fraud, only to back-track and post something alleging that the whole account was genunie, except for the brief reference to Jesus Christ. Again, I showed that to be FALSE!!


And, every time another non-biblical reference to Jesus occurs, you start cranking out the conspiracy theories.

So, whatever narcotic you happen to be ingesting, I suggest you cease. Your claim of my not addressing one single argument of yours and simply waving my hands in dismissal, much like your other claims (or those of Humphreys' or whoever) is flat-out FALSE!