Author Topic: Is the Appendix really useless?  (Read 3885 times)

Butterbean

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19324
Is the Appendix really useless?
« on: October 07, 2007, 01:55:27 PM »

"3. An intelligent designer would have removed our tail bones and appendices, also relics of our evolutionary past."  - columbusdude82

"6.How do creationists explain Vestigial Structures? These are organs that are no longer in use by the species who has them. For instance the Flightless Cormorants of the Galapagos Islands. This bird has wings which it evolved into uselessness. It no longer had use for the wings so those individuals who's wings didn't work in the population weren't selected out. So in time the entire population's wings stopped working and became vestigial structures. This goes perfectly with Evolution. How does a creationist explain this? Not to mention the numerous other vestigial organs of other species including humans and their appendix and tail bones." - Johnny Apollo



Appendix may still be useful today in under-developed countries according to Duke University Medical School surgery professor Bill Parker.

Coldude, Johnny (if still around) and others may find the following article of some interest (and you may like Douglas Theobald's comment):



Scientists: Appendix may help protect good germs
By Seth Borenstein
Associated Press
Advertisement

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Some scientists think they have figured out the real job of the troublesome and seemingly useless appendix: It produces and protects good germs for your gut.

That's the theory from surgeons and immunologists at Duke University Medical School, published online in a scientific journal this week.

For generations the appendix has been dismissed as superfluous. Doctors figured it had no function, surgeons removed them routinely, and people live fine without them.

And when infected the appendix can turn deadly. It gets inflamed quickly and some people die if it isn't removed in time. Two years ago, 321,000 Americans were hospitalized with appendicitis, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The function of the appendix seems related to the massive amount of bacteria populating the human digestive system, according to the study in the Journal of Theoretical Biology. There are more bacteria than human cells in the typical body. Most of it is good and helps digest food.

But sometimes the flora of bacteria in the intestines die or are purged. Diseases such as cholera or amoebic dysentery would clear the gut of useful bacteria. The appendix's job is to reboot the digestive system in that case.

The appendix "acts as a good safe house for bacteria," said Duke surgery professor Bill Parker, a study co-author. Its location - just below the normal one-way flow of food and germs in the large intestine in a sort of gut cul-de-sac - helps support the theory, he said.

Also, the worm-shaped organ outgrowth acts like a bacteria factory, cultivating the good germs, Parker said.

That use is not needed in a modern industrialized society, Parker said. If a person's gut flora dies, they can usually repopulate it easily with germs they pick up from other people, he said. But before dense populations in modern times and during epidemics of cholera that affected a whole region, it wasn't as easy to grow back that bacteria and the appendix came in handy.

In less developed countries, where the appendix may be still useful, the rate of appendicitis is lower than in the U.S., other studies have shown, Parker said.

He said the appendix may be another case of an overly hygienic society triggering an overreaction by the body's immune system.

Even though the appendix seems to have a function, people should still have them removed when they are inflamed because it could turn deadly, Parker said. About 300 to 400 Americans die of appendicitis each year, according to the CDC.

Five scientists not connected with the research said that the Duke theory makes sense and raises interesting questions.

The idea "seems by far the most likely" explanation for the function of the appendix, said Brandeis University biochemistry professor Douglas Theobald. "It makes evolutionary sense."

The theory led Gary Huffnagle, a University of Michigan internal medicine and microbiology professor, to wonder about the value of another body part that is often yanked: "I'll bet eventually we'll find the same sort of thing with the tonsils."

R

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 04:48:58 PM »
No, the question is how do creationists explain building an entertainment complex in the middle of a sewer system.
I hate the State.

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 04:51:54 PM »
"3. An intelligent designer would have removed our tail bones and appendices, also relics of our evolutionary past."  - columbusdude82
uhh wouldn't that contradict natural selection as well?
follow the arrows

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 05:24:10 PM »
uhh wouldn't that contradict natural selection as well?

Entertainment Complex in Sewer System.
I hate the State.

columbusdude82

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6896
  • I'm too sexy for my shirt!!!
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2007, 05:29:08 PM »
uhh wouldn't that contradict natural selection as well?

Huh?

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2007, 05:41:23 PM »
Huh?
the emergence of unnecessary biological components in the human body that is, how would you explain that in light of evolutionary theory?
follow the arrows

columbusdude82

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6896
  • I'm too sexy for my shirt!!!
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2007, 05:46:57 PM »
the emergence of unnecessary biological components in the human body that is, how would you explain that in light of evolutionary theory?

They were useful once, in a remote ancestor. At some point they stopped being useful, but the genes for them remained. How does that sound?

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2007, 05:49:34 PM »
They were useful once, in a remote ancestor. At some point they stopped being useful, but the genes for them remained. How does that sound?
And you dont see how this can be used as an argument equally favorable for creationists?  :-\
follow the arrows

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2007, 05:58:40 PM »
And you dont see how this can be used as an argument equally favorable for creationists?  :-\

Along the lines that Satan planted the evidence... :D
I hate the State.

columbusdude82

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6896
  • I'm too sexy for my shirt!!!
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2007, 06:01:20 PM »
And you dont see how this can be used as an argument equally favorable for creationists?  :-\

Ummm, no.

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2007, 06:05:24 PM »
Ummm, no.
I can just imagine you with a big bag of cheetos.
follow the arrows

columbusdude82

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6896
  • I'm too sexy for my shirt!!!
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2007, 06:08:38 PM »
I can just imagine you with a big bag of cheetos.

Actually I don't eat that stuff.

And what I said about the appendix is the exact opposite of the creationist position, because it undermines the proposition of an intelligent designer.

Darwinism is fact. Anyone who denies it might as well be saying that the sun isn't a star, just a big angry fire god who desires that we sacrifice a young virgin every day for him...

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2007, 06:53:27 PM »
Actually I don't eat that stuff.

And what I said about the appendix is the exact opposite of the creationist position, because it undermines the proposition of an intelligent designer.

Darwinism is fact. Anyone who denies it might as well be saying that the sun isn't a star, just a big angry fire god who desires that we sacrifice a young virgin every day for him...
bullshit..
you deny god so vehemently.. maybe deny yourself donuts too?
follow the arrows

OTHstrong

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14122
  • Jasher
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2007, 06:55:06 PM »
Just because you can live without it does not mean it isn't usefull. You can also live without an arm. The appendix is use to fight bacteria and the tail bone makes you walk straight. I know a guy that broke his tail bone and now walks with a limp until he dies, true story.

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2007, 08:41:40 PM »
Just because you can live without it does not mean it isn't usefull. You can also live without an arm. The appendix is use to fight bacteria and the tail bone makes you walk straight. I know a guy that broke his tail bone and now walks with a limp until he dies, true story.

Onetimehard, I am curious as to your level of education. How you finished high school or the equivalent?
I hate the State.

OTHstrong

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14122
  • Jasher
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 10:03:49 PM »
Onetimehard, I am curious as to your level of education. How you finished high school or the equivalent?
What difference does it make? This forum is called Religious debate not biology class. I can't type fast and I usually have a full time table that is why I make mistakes, but even someone like you that has better grammer and spelling still makes mistakes, I think you ment "Have you....?


Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 06:18:11 AM »
What difference does it make? This forum is called Religious debate not biology class. I can't type fast and I usually have a full time table that is why I make mistakes, but even someone like you that has better grammer and spelling still makes mistakes, I think you ment "Have you....?



Indeed. I wasn't asking because of your grammar but rather because of your fundamentalism?
I hate the State.

columbusdude82

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6896
  • I'm too sexy for my shirt!!!
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 06:23:40 AM »
Indeed. I wasn't asking because of your grammar but rather because of your fundamentalism?

He answered that in another thread. Basically he's a good dude who didn't quite finish college, and had the misfortune of being brainwashed by some creationists at his church.

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Is the Appendix really useless?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 06:44:51 AM »
He answered that in another thread. Basically he's a good dude who didn't quite finish college, and had the misfortune of being brainwashed by some creationists at his church.

Ah..I see. A real shame that is.
I hate the State.