Tough questions for the Toney Freeman camp

[slaveboy1980]

what rep range was he using?

failure

[slaveboy1980]

I don't think it had much to do with the training. Probably just burned out.

burn out leads to shitty workouts.

[Trev]

Can you name any other bodybuilders who have only reached their full potential at age 42+?

Even Vince Taylor, Beckles, etc looked way better at 30 than 40+

Chris Dickerson for 1 - My point was that there will be a lot more guys reaching their potential in their 40's FROM NOW ON as people are generally getting younger all the time! Look at the 1960's/1970's when sports stars and bodybuilders were retiring in their late 20's ( Arnold at 29 for one! ) then in the 1980's/1990's they started peaking in their early 30's - now you are seeing more and more at their best at 40. Particularly with bodybuilding. Already most of the top ten bodybuilders of the last few years are in their late thirties?!

[slaveboy1980]

Chris Dickerson for 1 - My point was that there will be a lot more guys reaching their potential in their 40's FROM NOW ON as people are generally getting younger all the time! Look at the 1960's/1970's when sports stars and bodybuilders were retiring in their late 20's ( Arnold at 29 for one! ) then in the 1980's/1990's they started peaking in their early 30's - now you are seeing more and more at their best at 40. Particularly with bodybuilding. Already most of the top ten bodybuilders of the last few years are in their late thirties?!

its a complicated question. many factors involved:

when they started working out

drug usage (the heavier..the less years at the top....)

how big frame you need to fill out

how big do you need to be competitive

etc etc....

----------------------

toney freeman has maybe 2  good showings left in him..also he will never look better than he did at the shows he won. so he has already hit his peak.

im sure he could have been even better had he not been away from bb for a few years...but at the same time..if he hadnt been away he would have quit already.

[Trev]

its a complicated question. many factors involved:

when they started working out

drug usage (the heavier..the less years at the top....)

how big frame you need to fill out

how big do you need to be competitive

etc etc....

----------------------

toney freeman has maybe 2  good showings left in him..also he will never look better than he did at the shows he won. so he has already hit his peak.

im sure he could have been even better had he not been away from bb for a few years...but at the same time..if he hadnt been away he would have quit already.

Agreed - There'll be a lot more guys peaking in this "sport" and others in their 40's and who knows in 10-15 years time we may have a 50 year old Mr O ??!!!

[slaveboy1980]

Agreed - There'll be a lot more guys peaking in this "sport" and others in their 40's and who knows in 10-15 years time we may have a 50 year old Mr O ??!!!

many of the guys are peaking late (compared to 70s-80s) because they need to be so big these days...

[Trev]

many of the guys are peaking late (compared to 70s-80s) because they need to be so big these days...

This is it, regardless of drugs, you can only build so much muscle a year. In 1975 Arnold was 235 pounds but IF he was transported to now, he'd consider himself 20-30 pounds away from his potential and thus 5-10 years away from retirement.

[slaveboy1980]

This is it, regardless of drugs, you can only build so much muscle a year. In 1975 Arnold was 235 pounds but IF he was transported to now, he'd consider himself 20-30 pounds away from his potential and thus 5-10 years away from retirement.

also,
alot of guys these days are trying to add mass to fast (by using "everything": aas, gh, insulin, igf etc) which results in bloated palumoboistic bodies .....they lack a few years of correct training as naturals...only after you have a solid foundation should you think of using drugs (if your gonna compete) and they should be added gradually and dosages should be upped gradually too..

basically all pros look like shit when they go over 250lbs (in competition shape), if they are 5'10 and below...

some guys can look good when 260-280: nasser, ruhl (when at their best).+ guys who are tall 6'0+..but most look like shit.

[Trev]

also,
alot of guys these days are trying to add mass to fast (by using "everything": aas, gh, insulin, igf etc) which results in bloated palumoboistic bodies .....they lack a few years of correct training as naturals...only after you have a solid foundation should you think of using drugs (if your gonna compete) and they should be added gradually and dosages should be upped gradually too..

basically all pros look like shit when they go over 250lbs (in competition shape), if they are 5'10 and below...

some guys can look good when 260-280: nasser, ruhl (when at their best).+ guys who are tall 6'0+..but most look like shit.

Never has a more true statement been said. The human body limit in terms of quality is def under 250 pounds unless 6 foot tall +

[natural al]

Freeman doesn't have a great record for peaking does he? He was a nobody for awhile. Just the NO-shotgun guy...

btw hahahahaahah (told you so ADIPO8)

I find your avatar mesmorizing.....

[michael arvilla]

Can you name any other bodybuilders who have only reached their full potential at age 42+?

Even Vince Taylor, Beckles, etc looked way better at 30 than 40+

Bill Pearl
Sergio Oliva
Reg Park
Serge Nubret

[slaveboy1980]

Bill Pearl
Sergio Oliva
Reg Park
Serge Nubret

wrong on sergio...if his birtdate is 1941. a poster named CS (old training partner of sergio) claimed he was born maybe as early as 1931...if so..then you are correct.

personally i believe he was born 1941 and reached his peak in early 70s..which would mean you are incorrect.

sergio could have been ever better tho...dont think he fulfilled his potential ..specially considering he often came in with poor conditioning.

[Bluto]

i stopped reading after 240 said he would be a threat to jay (i.e. a contender for mr olympia)

[LATS]

 toney may very well be burnt out but, his training is not helping him at all.. he is resorting to very high rep training and using very light weights going by "feel".. sorry.. but, the basic tenet of overload still applies regardless of where you are in your training.. using 25 pound db's for curls aint gonna cut it no matter how much one squeezes and tenses.. he needs quite a bit of size to fill out that wide frame.. all i have been seeing is a tony who is losing fullness and size.. that md video showed a guy who is losing his arms, legs ect..

[slaveboy1980]

toney may very well be burnt out but, his training is not helping him at all.. he is resorting to very high rep training and using very light weights going by "feel".. sorry.. but, the basic tenet of overload still applies regardless of where you are in your training.. using 25 pound db's for curls aint gonna cut it no matter how much one squeezes and tenses.. he needs quite a bit of size to fill out that wide frame.. all i have been seeing is a tony who is losing fullness and size.. that md video showed a guy who is losing his arms, legs ect..

agreed

[Colby]

It's funny how Toney has been training with high reps for years and now people say he can't build a quality physique that way.  Hello...he already has. 

[genrommel74]

I like freeman and i hope that he comes back. It gives like me that are over 6'0ft hope

[slaveboy1980]

It's funny how Toney has been training with high reps for years and now people say he can't build a quality physique that way.  Hello...he already has. 

he may have trained with high reps. but not as light as he did in the videos.

he sure didnt build those legs with high reps of light weight.

the point is not high reps. the point is laziness disguised as high rep training. (with very light weights for him).

[delta9mda]

Toney will be back.