Author Topic: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns  (Read 4980 times)

Dos Equis

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I don't get this.  If we can electrocute people to death, gas them to death, shoot them, and hang them, what is the big deal with a little pain involved with a needle?  Of the methods we have already endorsed, seems like this is the least painful method of execution. 

U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday stayed the pending execution of a Virginia man convicted of beating a co-worker to death in 2001 for drug money.

Convicted killer Christopher Scott Emmett was scheduled to be put to death Wednesday night.

 It's the latest in a number of executions the court has blocked recently amid questions about the constitutionality of lethal injection -- the primary method of execution in all states with the death penalty.

Christopher Scott Emmett killed co-worker John Langley during a botched robbery in Danville, Virginia, by beating him to death as he slept, then used his cash to buy crack cocaine, according to documents filed in the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals.

He was set to die at 9 p.m. Wednesday.

The Supreme Court order stays Emmett's execution pending final disposition of the appeal by the 4th Circuit. But if the 4th Circuit allows the execution to proceed, another round of appeals to the high court would be expected.

The Supreme Court had rejected an earlier stay of execution in June, before agreeing to hear Kentucky cases on the constitutionality of lethal injection. Oral arguments in those cases will be held early next year.

The high court's agreeing to hear the cases, however, has prompted a flood of appeals from capital defendants seeking execution stays or new hearings as a result of the court's intervention.

The justices, meanwhile, have stayed a number of pending executions, presumably until the larger constitutional questions surrounding the method of execution are settled.

With 42 people executed in the United States so far in 2007, the concerns may lead to the fewest number of executions in a year since 1996, when 45 people were put to death in the U.S., according to The Associated Press.

On Friday, Georgia plans to execute Jack Alderman, convicted in the 1974 death of his wife. Alderman's attorneys have filed a last-minute appeal with the Supreme Court.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/17/scotus.execution/index.html

Tre

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 11:51:18 PM »

Would the stay have been granted if the defendant were Black?

Just wondering.


Dos Equis

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 01:03:40 PM »
Another one. 

Supreme Court blocks child killer's execution
   
JACKSONVILLE, Florida (AP) -- The U.S. Supreme Court halted the execution of convicted child killer Mark Dean Schwab on Thursday, hours before he was scheduled to die.

Mark Dean Schwab is on death row for the murder of 11-year-old Junny Rios-Martinez.

The move by the high court was widely expected as it considers the appeals of two Kentucky inmates challenging the same lethal toxic three-drug combination used in Florida.

Schwab was sentenced to death for the murder of 11-year-old Junny Rios-Martinez.

In March 1991, the month Schwab was released from prison on a sexual assault sentence, a newspaper published a picture of Junny for winning a kite contest. Schwab gained the confidence of Junny's family, claiming he was with the newspaper and was writing an article on the boy.

On April 18, Schwab called Junny's school and pretended to be Junny's father and asked that the boy meet him after school. Two days later, Schwab called his aunt in Ohio and claimed that someone named Donald had made him kidnap and rape the boy.

He was later arrested and told police where he left Junny's body -- in a footlocker in a rural part of Brevard County.

Schwab's execution was to be the first in Florida since the botched execution of Angel Diaz on December 13. It took 34 minutes for Diaz to die -- twice as long as normal -- because the guards pushed the needles through his veins.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/15/florida.execution.ap/index.html

Dos Equis

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Dos Equis

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2008, 01:42:22 PM »
This quest for a painless execution is puzzling to me.  We have condoned death by firing squad, hanging, gassing, and electrocution.  All of those appear to be more painful than lethal injection. 

Jan 7, 4:27 PM EST
Justices divided over lethal injections

By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court appeared divided Monday over whether the drugs commonly injected to execute prisoners risk causing excruciating pain in violation of the Constitution.

Several justices indicated a willingness to preserve the three-drug cocktail that is authorized by three dozen states that allow executions. Such a decision would allow lethal injections, on hold since late September, to resume quickly.

Justice Antonin Scalia said states have been careful to adopt procedures that do not seek to inflict pain and should not be barred from carrying out executions even if prison officials sometimes make mistakes in administering drugs. "There is no painless requirement" in the Constitution, Scalia said. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito also indicated their support for the states' procedures.

Other members of the court, who have raised questions about lethal injection in the past, said they are bothered by the procedures used in Kentucky and elsewhere in which three drugs are administered in succession to knock out, paralyze and kill prisoners.

The argument against the three-drug protocol is that if the initial anesthetic does not take hold, a third drug that stops the heart can cause excruciating pain. The second drug, meanwhile, paralyzes the prisoner, rendering him unable to express his discomfort.

"I'm terribly troubled by the fact that the second drug is what seems to cause all the risk of excruciating pain, and seems to be almost totally unnecessary," said Justice John Paul Stevens.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, who often plays a decisive role on the closely divided court, gave little indication of his views.

The case before the court comes from Kentucky, in which two death row inmates are not asking to be spared execution or death by injection. Instead, they want the court to order a switch to a single drug, a barbiturate, that causes no pain and can be given in a large enough dose to cause death.

At the very least, they are asking for tighter controls on the three-drug process to ensure that the anesthetic is given properly. A decision should come by late June.

Justice Stephen Breyer seemed to capture the discomfort of the court, which has upheld the constitutionality of capital punishment.

"There is a risk of human error generally where you're talking about the death penalty, and this may be one extra problem," Breyer said. "But the question here is can we say that there is a more serious problem here than with other execution methods?"

Donald Verrilli, a Washington lawyer who is a veteran of capital cases, offered the court examples of executions in California and North Carolina in which inmates appeared to suffer pain as they were being put to death.

He said the best way to avoid repetition was to switch to a single drug, as veterinarians commonly use in putting animals to sleep.

"The risk here is real," Verrilli said. "That is why in the state of Kentucky it is unlawful to euthanize animals the way" the state executes inmates, he said.

Roy Englert, who typically argues business cases before the Supreme Court, said on behalf of Kentucky that the one-drug method has never been used in executions. The Bush administration also took Kentucky's side.

Englert also defended the state's practices as humane. Kentucky regularly trains its execution team and employs an experienced worker to insert the intravenous lines through which the drugs are administered, he said.

The state's lone execution by lethal injection did not present any obvious problems, both sides agreed.

The court may decide the Kentucky case is not the right one to settle the constitutionality of the three-drug procedure and leave that issue for another death penalty case.

Justice David Souter, however, urged his colleagues to take the time necessary to issue a definitive decision about the three-drug method in this case, even if it means sending the case back to Kentucky for more study by courts there.

Scalia, however, said such a move would mean "a national cessation of executions" that could last for years. "You wouldn't want that to happen," he said.

Recent executions in Florida and Ohio took much longer than usual, with strong indications that the prisoners suffered severe pain in the process. Workers had trouble inserting the IV lines that are used to deliver the drugs.

Lined up in front of the court waiting to attend the arguments, college students Jeremy Sperling and Gira Joshi said they oppose the death penalty, but regard making executions less painful and more humane as a worthy goal.

"You have the right to die with dignity," said Joshi, a political science and religion major at New Jersey's Rutgers University. Sperling, a psychology and religion major at New York University, said serving a life prison term is the appropriate alternative to the death penalty.

After Monday's court session, the brother of a victim of one Kentucky prisoner said the case already has dragged on too long. Powell County Sheriff Steve Bennett was shot to death by Ralph Baze in 1992.

"Ralph Baze was tried. The death penalty was what he got and he chose lethal injection," said Orville Bennett of Beattyville, Ky. "And we need to just get this over with."

The case is Baze v. Rees, 07-5439.

Associated Press reporter Natasha Metzler contributed to this report.
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SCOTUS_LETHAL_INJECTION?SITE=HIHAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Dos Equis

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2008, 04:01:45 PM »
Good decision. 

Apr 16, 6:16 PM EDT

Executions to resume after high court OK's lethal injections

By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press Writer
 
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The longest pause in executions in the U.S. in 25 years is about to end. A splintered Supreme Court cleared the way Wednesday, approving the most widely used method of lethal injection.

Almost immediately, Virginia lifted its moratorium on the death penalty. Mississippi and Oklahoma said they would seek execution dates for convicted murderers, and other states were ready to follow.

A nearly seven-month halt in executions was brought on by the court's decision to review Kentucky's lethal injection procedures, which are similar to those in roughly three dozen states. The break is the longest since a 17-month period ending in August 1982.

Voting 7-2, the conservative court led by Chief Justice John Roberts rebuffed the latest assault on capital punishment, this time by foes focusing on methods rather than on the legality of the death penalty itself. Justice John Paul Stevens voted with the majority on the question of lethal injections but said for the first time that he now believes the death penalty is unconstitutional.

The court turned back a challenge to the Kentucky procedures that employ three drugs to sedate, paralyze and kill inmates. Similar methods are used by roughly three dozen states.

Death penalty opponents said challenges to lethal injections would continue in states where problems with administering the drugs are well documented.

The case decided Wednesday was not about the constitutionality of the death penalty generally or even lethal injection. Instead, two Kentucky death row inmates contended that their executions could be carried out more humanely, with less risk of pain.

The inmates "have not carried their burden of showing that the risk of pain from maladministration of a concededly humane lethal injection protocol, and the failure to adopt untried and untested alternatives, constitute cruel and unusual punishment," Chief Justice John Roberts said in an opinion that garnered only three votes. Four other justices, however, agreed with the outcome.

Roberts also suggested that the court will not halt scheduled executions in the future unless "the condemned prisoner establishes that the state's lethal injection protocol creates a demonstrated risk of severe pain."

States can avoid this risk by using the three-drug procedure approved in the Kentucky case, Roberts said.

Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented.

Executions have been on hold since September, when the court agreed to hear the Kentucky case. The justices stepped in to halt six executions, and many others were put off because of the high court's review.

Forty-two people were executed last year out of more than 3,300 people on death rows across the country.

Wednesday's decision was announced with Pope Benedict XVI, a prominent death penalty critic, in Washington and the court's five Catholic justices - Roberts, Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas - headed to the White House for a dinner in his honor. All five supported the lethal injection procedures.

The court separately heard arguments Wednesday on the constitutionality of the death penalty for people convicted of raping children. A decision in that case is expected by late June.

The argument against the three-drug protocol is that if the initial anesthetic does not take hold, the other two drugs can cause excruciating pain. One of those drugs, a paralytic, would render the prisoner unable to express his discomfort.

The Kentucky inmates wanted the court to order a switch to a single drug, a barbiturate, that causes no pain and can be given in a large enough dose to cause death.

At the very least, they said, the state should be required to impose tighter controls on the three-drug process to ensure that the anesthetic is given properly.

Ginsburg, in her dissent, said her colleagues should have asked Kentucky courts to consider whether the state includes adequate safeguards to ensure a prisoner is unconscious and thus unlikely to suffer severe pain.

Stevens, while agreeing with Wednesday's outcome, said the decision would not end the debate over lethal injection.

"I am now convinced that this case will generate debate not only about the constitutionality of the three-drug protocol, and specifically about the justification for the use of the paralytic agent, pancuronium bromide, but also about the justification for the death penalty itself," Stevens said in an opinion in which he said for the first time that he believes the death penalty is unconstitutional.

Stevens suggested that states could spare themselves legal costs and delays in executions by eliminating the use of the paralytic.

Kentucky has had only one execution by lethal injection, and it did not present any obvious problems, both sides in the case agreed.

But executions elsewhere, in Florida and Ohio, took much longer than usual, with strong indications that the prisoners suffered severe pain in the process. Workers had trouble inserting the intravenous lines that are used to deliver the drugs.

Roberts said "a condemned prisoner cannot successfully challenge a state's method of execution merely by showing a slightly or marginally safer alternative."

He acknowledged that Wednesday's outcome would not prevent states from adopting a method of execution they consider more humane. Alito and Kennedy joined his opinion.

Justice Stephen Breyer concurred in the outcome, although he said he would evaluate the case under the same standard put forth by Ginsburg, that a means of execution may not create an "untoward, readily avoidable risk of inflicting severe and unnecessary pain."

Scalia and Thomas said Roberts' opinion did not go far enough in insulating states from challenges to their lethal injection procedures, which were instituted to make executions more humane. A "method of execution violates the Eighth Amendment only if it is deliberately designed to inflict pain," Thomas said.

Donald Verrilli, a veteran death penalty lawyer who argued the inmates' case, said he was disappointed in the decision, but hopeful about other challenges. "I think important issues remain after this decision," Verrilli said. "Records of administration of lethal injections in other states raise grave doubts about the reliability of those procedures."

The Rev. Pat Delahanty, head of the Kentucky Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty, said the ruling wasn't a surprise.

"We never expected it to do more than maybe slow down executions in Kentucky or elsewhere," Delahanty said. "We're going to be facing some executions soon."

Wednesday's case involved two inmates, Ralph Baze and Thomas Clyde Bowling Jr., who were convicted of murder and sentenced to death by juries in Kentucky. Baze killed a sheriff and a deputy who were attempting to arrest him. Bowling shot and killed a couple and wounded their 2-year-old son outside their dry-cleaning business.

Fayette County Commonwealth Attorney Ray Larson, who prosecuted Bowling in 1992, said after the ruling: "Fact of the matter is, this lethal injection process is about as far from cruel and unusual as anything you can imagine. This is just another one of those things the anti-death penalty gang is throwing against the wall to see what sticks."

The case is Baze v. Ress, 07-5439.
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SCOTUS_LETHAL_INJECTION?SITE=HIHAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

JBGRAY

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2008, 04:30:26 PM »
The Death Penalty is barbaric and has no business in civilized nations.  Anytime a governmental entity executes a person whether by lethal injection or otherwise, it should be considered cruel and unusual punishment, which by strict definition is. 

Also, BB, it is illegal in the US to hang or electrocute anyone who is serving on Death Row.  I think maybe in a  couple of states that the inmates may request this method of death, but I'd have to check up on that as I can't quite remember.  The only instance where the government has the jurisdiction to shoot someone via firing squad is by conviction in a military court, and I believe that the only penalty that incurs such a sentence is Treason.

Did you know, BB, that before lethal injection is administered, that the doctor performing the procedure actually wipes the area clean with an alcohol pad before inserting the needle?  There's an actual term for this, but it has something to do with trying to keep a semblance of civilization and normalcy within a barbaric procedure.

Dos Equis

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2008, 04:47:22 PM »
The Death Penalty is barbaric and has no business in civilized nations.  Anytime a governmental entity executes a person whether by lethal injection or otherwise, it should be considered cruel and unusual punishment, which by strict definition is. 

Also, BB, it is illegal in the US to hang or electrocute anyone who is serving on Death Row.  I think maybe in a  couple of states that the inmates may request this method of death, but I'd have to check up on that as I can't quite remember.  The only instance where the government has the jurisdiction to shoot someone via firing squad is by conviction in a military court, and I believe that the only penalty that incurs such a sentence is Treason.

Did you know, BB, that before lethal injection is administered, that the doctor performing the procedure actually wipes the area clean with an alcohol pad before inserting the needle?  There's an actual term for this, but it has something to do with trying to keep a semblance of civilization and normalcy within a barbaric procedure.

I disagree JB.  I think a person forfeits the right to live if they commit certain acts.  Just like a person forfeits the right to walk freely in society if they commit certain acts.  In my view, the supreme sanction is about accountability, safety, deterrence, and justice for the victim's family/friends.  Nothing barbaric about it at all. 

According to this, the following forms of capital punishment are used in the U.S.:  lethal injection, electrocution, gas, firing squad, and hanging.  http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=245

My understanding is doctors do not participate in the lethal injection process?  I think that was part of the basis for the appeal, because there were quality control concerns. 


 

tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 05:50:06 PM »
I agree with BB, There is a difference between killing a person and murdering a person. When you murder a person you violate the social contract that says if you dont murder me i wont murder you and in doing so you give up your right to life.

w8tlftr

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 06:20:07 PM »
There are fates worse than death.

It should bother all of us that our government executes it's own citizens.

Unfortunately until a life sentence means "life" the death penalty will always be a valid option for those that want tough on crime legislation.

I'd personally rather see those guilty of heinous crimes sent to a prison in the northern wastelands of Alaska living out the rest of their miserable lives doing hard labor.


tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 06:33:03 PM »
There are fates worse than death.

It should bother all of us that our government executes it's own citizens.

Unfortunately until a life sentence means "life" the death penalty will always be a valid option for those that want tough on crime legislation.

I'd personally rather see those guilty of heinous crimes sent to a prison in the northern wastelands of Alaska living out the rest of their miserable lives doing hard labor.

here is my problem with that, what happens if they choose to not do the labor, then what you isolate them we cant deprive them of food, water, sleep...this gives them a choice and that in my opinion is to good for them.

We live in a country that allows its citizens to kill inocent ppl in the form of abortion so why not kill guilty ones?

w8tlftr

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2008, 02:57:06 AM »
here is my problem with that, what happens if they choose to not do the labor, then what you isolate them we cant deprive them of food, water, sleep...this gives them a choice and that in my opinion is to good for them.

We live in a country that allows its citizens to kill inocent ppl in the form of abortion so why not kill guilty ones?

I disagree. The hard labor is the carrot on the stick that keeps them from solitary confinement and complete loss of privileges and just because we have to feed them doesn't entitle them to surf and turf.

I have a problem with abortion too but that's a discussion for another time.


Decker

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 07:45:43 AM »
There are fates worse than death.

It should bother all of us that our government executes it's own citizens.

Unfortunately until a life sentence means "life" the death penalty will always be a valid option for those that want tough on crime legislation.

I'd personally rather see those guilty of heinous crimes sent to a prison in the northern wastelands of Alaska living out the rest of their miserable lives doing hard labor.


I see nothing wrong with reinstating the rock-pile.  If banal pointless labor is good enough for the american labor force, it's good enough for a criminal.

tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 08:46:00 AM »
I disagree. The hard labor is the carrot on the stick that keeps them from solitary confinement and complete loss of privileges and just because we have to feed them doesn't entitle them to surf and turf.

I have a problem with abortion too but that's a discussion for another time.


right but if i dont want to do it guess what you cant make me what if i prefer solitary as opposed to working for 8 hrs a day in the sun, this is to much freedom for somebody who callously took the life and freedom away from another person. Thats part of my point its ok to kill an innocent ppl in abortions but cruel and unussual to kill a guilty person. I personally am pro-life but publically and politically im pro-choice b/c i dont think i should have the right to tell you what to do with you body and vice versa, but that doesnt change the "Liberal Double Standard" (not a knock at you thats what its called) that your view seems to have.

w8tlftr

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 09:44:31 AM »
right but if i dont want to do it guess what you cant make me what if i prefer solitary as opposed to working for 8 hrs a day in the sun, this is to much freedom for somebody who callously took the life and freedom away from another person. Thats part of my point its ok to kill an innocent ppl in abortions but cruel and unussual to kill a guilty person. I personally am pro-life but publically and politically im pro-choice b/c i dont think i should have the right to tell you what to do with you body and vice versa, but that doesnt change the "Liberal Double Standard" (not a knock at you thats what its called) that your view seems to have.

If you didn't work then it's solitary confinement and you get bread and water. I wouldn't even give you a bed to sleep on. Enjoy your cold, hard, concrete floor. You'd get no books to read, no radio, no television - nothing. Completely and totally severed from the outside world. How long do you think most humans could take that?

And how does my view have a double standard? I'm against the death penalty and I'm pro-life. IMO, it's no longer "just your body" when you have another life living within you.




loco

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 10:25:27 AM »
If you didn't work then it's solitary confinement and you get bread and water. I wouldn't even give you a bed to sleep on. Enjoy your cold, hard, concrete floor. You'd get no books to read, no radio, no television - nothing. Completely and totally severed from the outside world. How long do you think most humans could take that?

Is that not a form of torture?  I'm asking because some people believe that the death penalty is more humane than torture, while others believe that certain criminals should be tortured to make them pay for what they did instead of the death penalty which would be letting them get off too easy.

tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 10:42:59 AM »
Is that not a form of torture?  I'm asking because some people believe that the death penalty is more humane than torture, while others believe that certain criminals should be tortured to make them pay for what they did instead of the death penalty which would be letting them get off too easy.
I guess it would all depend on what you consider cruel and unusual. In my opinion they forfited their rights when they took the rights of others away. I dont think that the criminals should be "tortured" and i dont view the death penalty or hard labor/solitary confinement as torture. The death penalty is not about punishment in my opinion its about retribution. If it was just about punishment then ya throw that bastard into some hard labor, but to me its also about retribution.

w8tlftr

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2008, 11:57:26 AM »
Is that not a form of torture?  I'm asking because some people believe that the death penalty is more humane than torture, while others believe that certain criminals should be tortured to make them pay for what they did instead of the death penalty which would be letting them get off too easy.

IMO it's not but I can see their point.


tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2008, 12:08:08 PM »
If you didn't work then it's solitary confinement and you get bread and water. I wouldn't even give you a bed to sleep on. Enjoy your cold, hard, concrete floor. You'd get no books to read, no radio, no television - nothing. Completely and totally severed from the outside world. How long do you think most humans could take that?

And how does my view have a double standard? I'm against the death penalty and I'm pro-life. IMO, it's no longer "just your body" when you have another life living within you.




sorry i didnt see this reply before i replied to loco, I misread your earlier post and thought you were for abortion which would be a double standard. I dont think you could deny a person a bed or at least something to sleep on as that might be "cruel and unusual"

Why are you against the death penalty?
why are you against abortion?

w8tlftr

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2008, 01:53:46 PM »
sorry i didnt see this reply before i replied to loco, I misread your earlier post and thought you were for abortion which would be a double standard. I dont think you could deny a person a bed or at least something to sleep on as that might be "cruel and unusual"

Why are you against the death penalty?
why are you against abortion?

I'm against the death penalty because it creeps me out that we allow our government to kill it's citizens. I also think "death" is an easy way out for criminals. I'd make them live out the rest of their natural live behind bars doing hard labor. Like I said in an earlier post, there are fates worse than death. Now, unfortunately, because a life sentence rarely means life it I can understand why the pro death penalty argument exists and I even understand it's validity. That just tells me we need to fix our broken criminal justice system.

I'm against abortion because it involves taking the life of an innocent. Pretty straight forward. Don't want a baby? Don't have unprotected sex. If you still use protection and get pregnant then give it up for adoption. There are thousands of loving couples (gay and straight) that want a child. IMO, people use abortion as a means of birth control and as a means to rid themselves of a burden they are not ready for. In other words, running away from and adult responsibility.



24KT

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2008, 01:44:21 AM »
The Death Penalty is barbaric and has no business in civilized nations.  Anytime a governmental entity executes a person whether by lethal injection or otherwise, it should be considered cruel and unusual punishment, which by strict definition is. 

Also, BB, it is illegal in the US to hang or electrocute anyone who is serving on Death Row.  I think maybe in a  couple of states that the inmates may request this method of death, but I'd have to check up on that as I can't quite remember.  The only instance where the government has the jurisdiction to shoot someone via firing squad is by conviction in a military court, and I believe that the only penalty that incurs such a sentence is Treason.

Did you know, BB, that before lethal injection is administered, that the doctor performing the procedure actually wipes the area clean with an alcohol pad before inserting the needle?  There's an actual term for this, but it has something to do with trying to keep a semblance of civilization and normalcy within a barbaric procedure.

Absolutely!!!!!

State sanctioned murder has no place in a civilized society, ...especially one with a justice system so flawed.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=210155.0
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tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2008, 08:11:41 PM »
I'm against the death penalty because it creeps me out that we allow our government to kill it's citizens. I also think "death" is an easy way out for criminals. I'd make them live out the rest of their natural live behind bars doing hard labor. Like I said in an earlier post, there are fates worse than death. Now, unfortunately, because a life sentence rarely means life it I can understand why the pro death penalty argument exists and I even understand it's validity. That just tells me we need to fix our broken criminal justice system.

I'm against abortion because it involves taking the life of an innocent. Pretty straight forward. Don't want a baby? Don't have unprotected sex. If you still use protection and get pregnant then give it up for adoption. There are thousands of loving couples (gay and straight) that want a child. IMO, people use abortion as a means of birth control and as a means to rid themselves of a burden they are not ready for. In other words, running away from and adult responsibility.



sorry it took me so long to respond ive been out of the house and semi sick,
 
I agree there are fates worse than death, but many are either considered cruel and unusual putting someone in solitary confinement b/c they wont work seems fairly cruel, especially with all the psychological effects that it might have dont you agree? and even if you dont agree can you see how some might think and lobby against that?
Like I said its not just about punishment its about retribution as well

In response to your second paragraph, why if there are so many wanting to adopt are there so many children needing homes not being adopted? You should look into our adoption process and statistics it is quite depressing. The fact is that many people treat adoption like a getting a dog if you dont meet a certain criteria than your chances of adoption are greatly lowered. If your scenario was true than we wouldnt have a surplus of children waiting for adoption. What about the psychological effects on the child and parent?
That being said i completely agree with you many people do treat abortion as a easy way out, but that doesnt mean that it should be wrong all together.

When do you believe life begins? the moment of conception? when brain activity starts? when cognitive processes start? This a matter of opinion and each answer either opens a door for cases where abortion isnt considered taking a life or opens the door for further arguements.

tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 08:19:27 PM »
Absolutely!!!!!

State sanctioned murder has no place in a civilized society, ...especially one with a justice system so flawed.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=210155.0
As I stated earlier there is a difference between murder and killing. Murder which is taking a life for no reason is why the person is there in the first place. The execution of the person is killing him for mudering someone meaning that they have a reason. As for the second comment of the system being flawed, I agree that it is flawed and that there are innocent people in prison, but that doesnt mean i want all the criminals to be set free b/c a small few are innocent. The number of guilty certainly outweigh the number of innocent by far, so its a shitty situation but one i personally believe is worth the down side.

w8tlftr

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2008, 04:33:04 AM »
sorry it took me so long to respond ive been out of the house and semi sick,
 
I agree there are fates worse than death, but many are either considered cruel and unusual putting someone in solitary confinement b/c they wont work seems fairly cruel, especially with all the psychological effects that it might have dont you agree? and even if you dont agree can you see how some might think and lobby against that?
Like I said its not just about punishment its about retribution as well

Do you think solitary confinement is a more 'cruel and unusual punishment' than ending someone's life? I do understand that people will lobby against it but what is the alternative? State sponsored murder of it's own citizens? IMO, justice is about retribution and balance - not vengeance.

Quote
In response to your second paragraph, why if there are so many wanting to adopt are there so many children needing homes not being adopted? You should look into our adoption process and statistics it is quite depressing. The fact is that many people treat adoption like a getting a dog if you dont meet a certain criteria than your chances of adoption are greatly lowered. If your scenario was true than we wouldnt have a surplus of children waiting for adoption. What about the psychological effects on the child and parent?
That being said i completely agree with you many people do treat abortion as a easy way out, but that doesnt mean that it should be wrong all together.

I'm not sure I understand your line of thinking here. Are you suggesting that because there are so many 'unwanted' children that are wards of the state that abortion is a better alternative? If that is true then why stop at unwanted children? We have a homeless problem in this country too. Perhaps we should start some removing them from society for the common good?

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When do you believe life begins? the moment of conception? when brain activity starts? when cognitive processes start? This a matter of opinion and each answer either opens a door for cases where abortion isnt considered taking a life or opens the door for further arguements.

It is my opinion that life begins at conception. I understand people have opinions that differ from mine and that's okay. We'll just agree to disagree.


tonymctones

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court stays execution amid lethal injection concerns
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2008, 09:12:31 AM »
Do you think solitary confinement is a more 'cruel and unusual punishment' than ending someone's life? I do understand that people will lobby against it but what is the alternative? State sponsored murder of it's own citizens? IMO, justice is about retribution and balance - not vengeance.
First of again there is a difference between KILLING and MURDER its crucial that you understand that!!! And exactly what I said retribution and balance are better served by the muderer being put to death not by living out the rest of his life while he denied somebody else that same right. As for your first comments thats a matter of opinion I personally dont believe that it is but I was using it to make a point and it sounds like you grasped it

I'm not sure I understand your line of thinking here. Are you suggesting that because there are so many 'unwanted' children that are wards of the state that abortion is a better alternative? If that is true then why stop at unwanted children? We have a homeless problem in this country too. Perhaps we should start some removing them from society for the common good?

I am most certainly NOT suggesting that abortion is a better solution than adoption only pointing out the flaws in your logic of not having abortions because there are "plenty of people who want to adopt" its just simply not true. Abortion in my personal opinion is wrong and I would never want a girl that was impregnated by me to have one, but like I said I should have no power to tell someone else what to do with their body. 

It is my opinion that life begins at conception. I understand people have opinions that differ from mine and that's okay. We'll just agree to disagree.

Why is it that you believe life begins at conception? Religious reasons?
Technically death is considered when brain activity stops so Logically Life would be when brain activity starts, right? Just an example of how complex this problem can be and how a black and white outlook will not fit as a solution to it.