Author Topic: Josh Becket (Read 2533 times)

body88 · « **on:** October 19, 2007, 04:36:45 AM »

There is no better big game pitcher in the majors. He did it again last night. 11 strike outs, 8 innings, 1 run. Total domination in the postseason for the third time in this playoff's. I was worried facing cc @ home.

Josh is the Cy Young. The fact he was the majors only 20 game winner says a lot. But the real kicker is his total domination when it matters the most.

CalvinH · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2007, 06:08:40 AM »

I'll give you your Beckett props.I thought after last year he wouldn't pan out but he's pitched fantastic.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2007, 01:30:37 PM »

The prevailing thought among sportswriters is that C.C. Sabathia is going to win the Cy Young Award.

This post season proved without a doubt what a joke that is. Becket is the Cy Young without question. If he loses it to Sabathia it will be an absolute travesty.

The Indians trotting out Becket's ex-girlfriend to sing twice during the game was hilarious and shock of shocks it didn't have it's intended affect. In fact if probably had the opposite affect.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2007, 10:06:37 AM »

Beckett's finally put it all together. Without him, the sox are already home. Totally dominated the Indians in the second game, despite reports of back tightness.

CC should win the CY, though. He had a better season than Beckett did, where the CY is voted on. Simple as that.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2007, 12:45:10 PM »

You're true colors are starting to show. I remember earlier in the season you said that Beckett would ultimately get injured and that he'd end up having a bad season.

Beckett's numbers.
W   L   ERA   G   GS   CG   SHO   SV   SVO   IP   H   R   ER   HR   BB   SO
20   7   3.27   30   30   1     0     0     0     200.2     189     76     73     17     40     194

Sabathia's numbers.
W   L   ERA   G   GS   CG   SHO   SV   SVO   IP   H   R   ER   HR   BB   SO
19   7   3.21   34   34   4     1     0     0     241.0 238     94     86     20     37     209

Bitter Yankee fans are coming out of the woodwork now. It's going to get even uglier if the Sox can somehow win the next two games.

body88 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:04:20 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on October 20, 2007, 10:06:37 AM

Beckett's finally put it all together. Without him, the sox are already home. Totally dominated the Indians in the second game, despite reports of back tightness.

CC should win the CY, though. He had a better season than Beckett did, where the CY is voted on. Simple as that.

Why did he have a better year?

body88 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:38:12 PM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 20, 2007, 12:45:10 PM

You're true colors are starting to show. I remember earlier in the season you said that Beckett would ultimately get injured and that he'd end up having a bad season.

Beckett's numbers.
W   L   ERA   G   GS   CG   SHO   SV   SVO   IP   H   R   ER   HR   BB   SO
20   7   3.27   30   30   1     0     0     0     200.2     189     76     73     17     40     194

Sabathia's numbers.
W   L   ERA   G   GS   CG   SHO   SV   SVO   IP   H   R   ER   HR   BB   SO
19   7   3.21   34   34   4     1     0     0     241.0 238     94     86     20     37     209

Bitter Yankee fans are coming out of the woodwork now. It's going to get even uglier if the Sox can somehow win the next two games.

I agree. The fact the sox won the division and actually advanced in the playoffs means nothing.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:27:25 PM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 20, 2007, 12:45:10 PM

You're true colors are starting to show. I remember earlier in the season you said that Beckett would ultimately get injured and that he'd end up having a bad season.

I thought Beckett would get injured because his history has shown that almost his entire career. I even explained to body88 why I thought this way, and said Beckett has put it all together and finally lived up to the hype he had as a rookie.

Because I think CC deseves the CY over him, I'm now becoming a troll and showing my true colors?

Quote

Beckett's numbers.
W   L   ERA   G   GS   CG   SHO   SV   SVO   IP   H   R   ER   HR   BB   SO
20   7   3.27   30   30   1     0     0     0     200.2     189     76     73     17     40     194

Sabathia's numbers.
W   L   ERA   G   GS   CG   SHO   SV   SVO   IP   H   R   ER   HR   BB   SO
19   7   3.21   34   34   4     1     0     0     241.0 238     94     86     20     37     209

Let's see.....Sabathia has a lower ERA, 3 more CG, one more SHO, and over FORTY more IP. And, even with the extra 40 innings, he still has less waks.

What am I missing? He's had a statistically better year. That makes my true colors show? Tell me why Beckett deserves the CY over him.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:28:19 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 01:38:12 PM

I agree. The fact the sox won the division and actually advanced in the playoffs means nothing.

Cleveland won the division as well. The playoffs do mean nothing - it's a regular season award.

body88 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:41:48 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on October 20, 2007, 04:28:19 PM

Cleveland won the division as well. The playoffs do mean nothing - it's a regular season award.

My point was that a lot of Yankees fans bash the sox, yet the yankees lost the division to the sox. Not sure what Cleveland winning there division has to do with Yankee fan's bashing the sox when there own team didn't do jack.

I was responding to the last part of his post. If the sox lose tonight all the yankees fans will be howling. Yet there own team lost the divsion and couldn't even get out of the first round of the playoffs riding a monster payroll. At least the sox can justify what they spent this year with a division win, and actually advancing/being competitive in the playoffs.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:49:18 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 04:41:48 PM

My point was that a lot of Yankees fans bash the sox, yet the yankees lost the division to the sox , the better team. Not sure what Cleveland winning there division has to do with Yankee fan's bashing the sox when there own team didnt do jack.

I was responding to the last part of his post.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying Beckett should have won the CY because the sox won the divsion.

To take the stats one step further, there's a stat called ERA+ that factors in the league differentials and the park effects for all pitchers. Beckett and Sabbathia has almost identical ERA+ numbers. (Beckett slightly higher by 2 points). Beckett's are close to Sabbathia despite Sabbathia's better "regular stats" numbers because Beckett played in Fenway, which proved to be a better hitter's ballpark. With equal ERA+ numbers, I think you have to go to the stats I pointed out above.

I just think CC #'s prove him to have a better season and deserve the CY. I don't see how that makes me show my true colors.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2007, 08:11:35 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on October 20, 2007, 04:27:25 PM

I thought Beckett would get injured because his history has shown that almost his entire career. I even explained to body88 why I thought this way, and said Beckett has put it all together and finally lived up to the hype he had as a rookie.

Because I think CC deseves the CY over him, I'm now becoming a troll and showing my true colors?

Let's see.....Sabathia has a lower ERA, 3 more CG, one more SHO, and over FORTY more IP. And, even with the extra 40 innings, he still has less waks.

What am I missing? He's had a statistically better year. That makes my true colors show? Tell me why Beckett deserves the CY over him.

Apparently you're missing the fact that your bitterness is prevailing.

Your argument reveals all, 3.21 compared to 3.27 is for all intents and purposes the same, to argue otherwise is ridiculous. Complete games are a joke too because the Sox have the best closer in the league and Cleveland's closer has an ERA over 5. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that fact. The Sox care nothing about complete games and using it as a statistic for the Cy Young in this instance is absolutely worthless. Shutouts are a usable statistic but his one more in a weaker division is hardly enough to push him over the edge.

Notice how you forgot to mention wins, strike outs per nine innings and hits per nine innings? Did you miss those stats or did they not fit your agenda?

Grape Ape · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2007, 06:56:08 AM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 20, 2007, 08:11:35 PM

Apparently you're missing the fact that your bitterness is prevailing.

Let's see here, you said Beckett should win the CY. I said Sabathia should. You then called me bitter and presented stats that showed Sabathia has a slightly better year, which I pointed out. After that, I continued to try to back up my argument, while you just took shots at me.

Quote

Your argument reveals all, 3.21 compared to 3.27 is for all intents and purposes the same, to argue otherwise is ridiculous.

This was just one of a bunch of numbers that YOU POSTED. I pointed out a number of others too. Yes, I didn't list K/9, since I was making my point for Sabatthia. You could have easily countered with that and had a discussion, but you chose to be an asshole and respond to it sarcastically. What you haven't done, is back up yours argument at all beyond that.

Quote

Complete games are a joke too because the Sox have the best closer in the league and Cleveland's closer has an ERA over 5. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that fact.

So if I go through all of Beckett's and Sabathia's starts, I'll find a bunch of times where Beckett was cruising and had a low enough pitch count to enter the 9th but was pulled to bring in Papelbon. Conversely, I'll find a number of starts where Sabathia would nomrally be pulled but was left in becasue of Borowski? That's your point?

Quote

Notice how you forgot to mention wins, strike outs per nine innings and hits per nine innings? Did you miss those stats or did they not fit your agenda?

I looked up Becketts and Sabatthia's WHIP and they were the same. But if you say CG and SHO are irrelevant, yet wins ARE, I don't ever think I'll be able to convince you of anything. The truth is, amongst those in the SABR community, that CC will probably get the nod because of the 40 more IP.

Since you haven't really presented an argument, I'll just guess as to what you're saying. You think Beckett should win the CY because he had one more win, a better K/9, and he plays for the red sox.

I have no idea what your problem is. I think CC had a slightly better year.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #13 on:** October 21, 2007, 10:30:36 AM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on October 21, 2007, 06:56:08 AM

Let's see here, you said Beckett should win the CY. I said Sabathia should. You then called me bitter and presented stats that showed Sabathia has a slightly better year, which I pointed out. After that, I continued to try to back up my argument, while you just took shots at me.

This was just one of a bunch of numbers that YOU POSTED. I pointed out a number of others too. Yes, I didn't list K/9, since I was making my point for Sabatthia. You could have easily countered with that and had a discussion, but you chose to be an asshole and respond to it sarcastically. What you haven't done, is back up yours argument at all beyond that.

So if I go through all of Beckett's and Sabathia's starts, I'll find a bunch of times where Beckett was cruising and had a low enough pitch count to enter the 9th but was pulled to bring in Papelbon. Conversely, I'll find a number of starts where Sabathia would nomrally be pulled but was left in becasue of Borowski? That's your point?

I looked up Becketts and Sabatthia's WHIP and they were the same. But if you say CG and SHO are irrelevant, yet wins ARE, I don't ever think I'll be able to convince you of anything. The truth is, amongst those in the SABR community, that CC will probably get the nod because of the 40 more IP.

Since you haven't really presented an argument, I'll just guess as to what you're saying. You think Beckett should win the CY because he had one more win, a better K/9, and he plays for the red sox.

I have no idea what your problem is. I think CC had a slightly better year.

This is rich, you've turned into a Sox hater and I'm the asshole.

According to you I don't have an argument even though I discredited the stats you posted and I posted stats you refused to mention because they're in favor of Beckett.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2007, 02:44:35 PM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 21, 2007, 10:30:36 AM

This is rich, you've turned into a Sox hater and I'm the asshole.

According to you I don't have an argument even though I discredited the stats you posted and I posted stats you refused to mention because they're in favor of Beckett.

This converstation has nothing to do with sox/Yankees. It's about CC Sabathia vs. Josh Beckett.

I only gave your arugment because you haven't said anything. You have basically said that Beckett should win the CY. Then you posted a bunch of stats and said nothing.

One last time - why do you think Beckett deserves the Cy Young over Sabathia?

Rearden Metal · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2007, 03:29:23 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on October 21, 2007, 02:44:35 PM

This converstation has nothing to do with sox/Yankees. It's about CC Sabathia vs. Josh Beckett.

I only gave your arugment because you haven't said anything. You have basically said that Beckett should win the CY. Then you posted a bunch of stats and said nothing.

One last time - why do you think Beckett deserves the Cy Young over Sabathia?

Sabbathia clearly had more impressive stats, mostly due to the complete games & innings pitched. The kid is a beast.

However, if you can't admit that Beckett is the guy you want on the mound to win one game, you aren't being honest. Beckett has dismantled Sabbathia this postseason piece by piece.

Regardless, these two aces will top thier respective rotations for a loooooooong time...unless Sabathia eats himself out of the game.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2007, 08:24:54 PM »

Quote from: Rearden Metal on October 21, 2007, 03:29:23 PM

Sabbathia clearly had more impressive stats, mostly due to the complete games & innings pitched. The kid is a beast.

However, if you can't admit that Beckett is the guy you want on the mound to win one game, you aren't being honest. Beckett has dismantled Sabbathia this postseason piece by piece.

Your second sentence is absolutely correct. So is the third. Beckett has dominated the postseason, without a doubt, and proved to be the guy you want on the mound in a crucial game. CC just had better regular season stats, albeit by a small margin, and deserves the Cy Young award.

body88 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:01:27 AM »

Yet again Becket dominates when it matters most. 9 k's for the Cy Young last night. Becket is the best big game pitcher in the MLB.

UPINTHEMGUTS · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2007, 09:45:38 AM »

He's a beast. Even if he's sporting some goofy looking facial hair.

How do you think Schilling will do tonight?

body88 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2007, 09:48:14 AM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 25, 2007, 09:45:38 AM

He's a beast. Even if he's sporting some goofy looking facial hair.

How do you think Schilling will do tonight?

I think he will do good. Have to go with the percenatges on this one. The Rockies are a good young team. They can hit.

UPINTHEMGUTS · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2007, 10:35:06 AM »

I hear you. That Rockies shortstop is going to be the real deal. A perrenial all-star and probably the NL rookie of the year from what I've read.

But I like the Red Sox to win easily tonight. Fenway is just too good a home field advantage.

body88 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2007, 01:08:13 PM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 25, 2007, 10:35:06 AM

I hear you. That Rockies shortstop is going to be the real deal. A perrenial all-star and probably the NL rookie of the year from what I've read.

But I like the Red Sox to win easily tonight. Fenway is just too good a home field advantage.

Yup. I like schill on the hill for sure. Just don't want to get to cocky about it. The Rockies layed a whupin on him in the regular season.

I wish some of you guys could experience what Fenway was like last night. It was literally shaking last night. It was on par with 04. The entire stadium was absolutely electric last night.

I was talking to a few people from Baltimore actually. In town for the skins game. Nice people.