Rumour on muscle milk?

[Princess L]

You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

1.  All whey protein prices are going up, everywhere

2.  You bitch about prices going to up to this dude, then you slam him for buying Body Fortress, the cheap kind

3.  You say don't be cheap when it comes to your body, and drop ON for trying to maintain margin through increased prices

You beat me to it 

[copacetic]

You beat me to it 

yes but then again this post is about how all the protein powders are not meeting label standards and they all have fancy wording in their labels to let you know that their amino profile is not truly accurate....I believe that this protein company is actually backed by wal-mart with the intent of hurting GNC/vitamin shoppe I read somewhere about the new president of wal-mart being a BB and wal-mart trying to takeover the supp market...6$ a pound for whey protein is still not dirt-cheap i figure this stuff could go as cheap as 2-4$ a pound if fitness people were better consumers.....wake up people all the supplement companies are fucking us   giving us the same stuff at 10 different prices......i wonder if consumer reports has ever done a protein powder study.....I'm going to do some research try and figure out who actually makes the protein powders....who do you work for methyl mike? you sound like a person who's motivation is money rather than actually being thoughtful......do you benefit from the sham whey protein market? obviously milk prices have been going up lately and so have whey prices but couldn't the milk companies get more money from whey themselves and make it cheaper for everyone by selling high quality cheap whey at every grocery store in america they should easily be able to take out all of these deceptive bullshit supplement companies they sell us the milk pretty directly they sell us the cheese pretty directly they sell us the cottage cheese pretty directly so why not the high quality whey powder?  This is how it will be eventually but i guess only time will tell.

[Scooby]

...6$ a pound for whey protein is still not dirt-cheap i figure this stuff could go as cheap as 2-4$ a pound if fitness people were better consumers.....wake up people all the supplement companies are fucking us giving us the same stuff at 10 different prices......

Actually you can check the price of raw whey anytime you want... it is listed on the commodities exchange.  Last time I checked it was selling for $3.60 per lb... remember that is RAW whey right from the dairy... now the protein manufacturer buys it at that price and it is instantized (so it mixes better), flavoring is added (so you will drink it), amino acids are added to give it a better profile.  So the additional manufacturing needed to bring it to market as drinkable protein costs $2.40 per lb. for an average tub of straight whey protein... now if you go adding in additional aminos (leucine, iso-leucine, etc.), or other forms of proteins for a blend then the cost goes up even more.

Now of course most people don't realize there are different grades of protein... Reputable companies use WP 80 which is whey protein 80% (concentrate), and WP 90 which is whey protein 90% (isolate). 

However there is also WP 34... yep you guessed it whey protein 34%.  This is used in cheaper proteins and by shady companies who use it to cut the WP 80. 

Here are the comodity numbers from Sept 28th.
WP 80 = $3.60/lb (up $1.90 from year ago)
WP 90 = $4.50/lb (up $2.80 from year ago)

WP 34 = $1.44/lb (up $.62 from year ago)

So the bottom line is if you are paying less than the average price out there... then you aren't getting what you think you are.  Stick with brand names because they have a reputation at stake... Walmart lost their reputation years ago.

[Emmortal]

I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, the protein price hike is due to China gobbling a lot of it up causing shortages in world supply.

I certainly don't mind paying for a quality protein product, it's one of the only supplements that I use due to my busy schedule and it's important to know I have quality product going into my body.

[GroinkTropin]

You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

1.  All whey protein prices are going up, everywhere

2.  You bitch about prices going to up to this dude, then you slam him for buying Body Fortress, the cheap kind

3.  You say don't be cheap when it comes to your body, and drop ON for trying to maintain margin through increased prices

4.  Slap yourself, you're a shitty businessman

I bitch about prices going up FOR MY STORE, WHICH I AM TRYING TO RUN PROFITABLY. They jumped from 22 to 38 in one fucking month thus forcing me to drop the line completely as they are still being sold online for 38. What can I do? You would bitch too. Also not all proteins have gone up, all my max muscle proteins haven't. I just talked to corp and the said no price increases are planned yet, but if our prices jump like the ON it would be very very bad. I did say don't be cheap with your body, and I stand by that. Slap yourself.

[Rimbaud]

All the increasing prices in protein have caused me to not buy it anymore. I've got a jug of BCAA & Taurine mix & that's about it.

[Mark from LP]

Scooby that is great info on whey protein prices and great advice.

If your protein is cheaper than the commodity prices of WP 80 or 90 chances are you are getting some nasty stuff.

To further go into why the prices have gone up, here are some factors:

1. There have been drought like conditions in whey producing countries like New Zealand
2. China has increased their consumption considerably and do not produce any whey themselves
3. Bio-fuels has increased the price of corn which has increased the general price of dairy

As for Muscle Milk, I know here in Canada there has been a big push to take if off the market because of the L-Carnitine in it. The US version has been sold here for years without any issues, but I guess Health Canada is cracking down on the ingredients and seizing any distributor who is selling it.

It's too bad as Muscle Milk is a great product. I think they might be reformulating it for Canada so it can be sold again?

[copacetic]

Actually you can check the price of raw whey anytime you want... it is listed on the commodities exchange.  Last time I checked it was selling for $3.60 per lb... remember that is RAW whey right from the dairy... now the protein manufacturer buys it at that price and it is instantized (so it mixes better), flavoring is added (so you will drink it), amino acids are added to give it a better profile.  So the additional manufacturing needed to bring it to market as drinkable protein costs $2.40 per lb. for an average tub of straight whey protein... now if you go adding in additional aminos (leucine, iso-leucine, etc.), or other forms of proteins for a blend then the cost goes up even more.

Now of course most people don't realize there are different grades of protein... Reputable companies use WP 80 which is whey protein 80% (concentrate), and WP 90 which is whey protein 90% (isolate). 

However there is also WP 34... yep you guessed it whey protein 34%.  This is used in cheaper proteins and by shady companies who use it to cut the WP 80. 

Here are the comodity numbers from Sept 28th.
WP 80 = $3.60/lb (up $1.90 from year ago)
WP 90 = $4.50/lb (up $2.80 from year ago)

WP 34 = $1.44/lb (up $.62 from year ago)

So the bottom line is if you are paying less than the average price out there... then you aren't getting what you think you are.  Stick with brand names because they have a reputation at stake... Walmart lost their reputation years ago.

wow that certainly is interesting......i wonder what wp is in the body fortress stuff on the label it says protein concentrate and protein isolate so at least some of it is the wp90 but is the concentrate wp80 or is it cut with wp34 I do hate the taste and will probably be going back to the ON once i have money again.....but i'm going to try and find out if there is any wp34 in this stuff.....cause it is so damn cheap because as everybody knows wal-mart does not overcharge as a matter of policy they will sell shit cheap even if they could theoretically get more for the item just because that is their policy wal-mart is the king of low mark up and that is why they are the king of all retailers.....and i do remember that their president or something is defintely a fitness guy and that he was personally selecting all of the supps they carry.....but then again with the low amino profile of this stuff i wouldn't be suprised if it did have the wp34 in it.......or just a lot more of the wp80 than the wp90 but being poor and such this is better than nothing....but looking at it roughly i still believe it is possible for somebody to market a high quality low cost  whey powder at supermarkets and wal-marts and put all of the other whey companies out of business...it will happen its only a matter of time........I buy the cheese and milk and other dairy products that make this stuff exist(it is a dairy byproduct of producing milk or cheese or something like that right) and I as a consumer am sick and tired of overpaying for the whey. I wish they would do a dateline about whey or something.........


Can wp34 be called concentrate legally? or does it have to have another name in the ingredients?

[copacetic]

I bitch about prices going up FOR MY STORE, WHICH I AM TRYING TO RUN PROFITABLY. They jumped from 22 to 38 in one fucking month thus forcing me to drop the line completely as they are still being sold online for 38. What can I do? You would bitch too. Also not all proteins have gone up, all my max muscle proteins haven't. I just talked to corp and the said no price increases are planned yet, but if our prices jump like the ON it would be very very bad. I did say don't be cheap with your body, and I stand by that. Slap yourself.

So you've been selling it at a 100% markup and loved that money and now they want you to sell it at a reasonable margin? its fucked up that the acceptable markup for a jug of protein is 100%!  The supplement industry is so fucking greedy it will eventually implode on itself.  But on another note this protein i was talking about is shit and you were right about that. I realized it actually has concentrate listed as its first ingredient rather than isolate......

[GroinkTropin]

So you've been selling it at a 100% markup and loved that money and now they want you to sell it at a reasonable margin? its fucked up that the acceptable markup for a jug of protein is 100%!  The supplement industry is so fucking greedy it will eventually implode on itself.  But on another note this protein i was talking about is shit and you were right about that. I realized it actually has concentrate listed as its first ingredient rather than isolate......

Not 100% markup I sell at suggested retail, customers come here because I am flexible with my pricing and almost always work out deals with people. The more you spend at one, the cheaper I make things it all evens out. What I'm saying is I was purchasing it for 22 dollars and selling for 38, now it costs 38 and the suggested retail is 75 this is ludicrous. Btw we HAVE to sell for a profit this size, trust me running a business is expensive. Also the supplement companies aren't going to kill themselves, it's the cheap consumers who will. Lately sales have been dropping because so many people are buying online, but these online retailers are shooting themselves in the foot and so are the people who buy from them. Yes you save a few dollars, but trust me there are enough people out there who won't buy online, they have to go to a store, get some advice from a knowledgable person like me. They want to see the products, touch them etc. If stores like mine dissapear, the supp companies will too as there aren't enough online buyers to sustain the market. Some companies see this, american cellular labs for example ONLY sells to max muscles, that's it. Ever notice when you go online to see how some supps rate, you never see max muscle or ACL products EVER? Most online shoppers probably don't even know they exist, this is because online sites rate products they SELL, and as a result you can NEVER trust them or any of the people attesting to their greatness. "I gained 20 pounds in 3 weeks on such and such!" yeah right. I have a large base of consistent customers who trust me to give them honest advice and opinions and I do. Go ahead, keep undercutting people like me and watch the whole industry collapse.

[copacetic]

Not 100% markup I sell at suggested retail, customers come here because I am flexible with my pricing and almost always work out deals with people. The more you spend at one, the cheaper I make things it all evens out. What I'm saying is I was purchasing it for 22 dollars and selling for 38, now it costs 38 and the suggested retail is 75 this is ludicrous. Btw we HAVE to sell for a profit this size, trust me running a business is expensive. Also the supplement companies aren't going to kill themselves, it's the cheap consumers who will. Lately sales have been dropping because so many people are buying online, but these online retailers are shooting themselves in the foot and so are the people who buy from them. Yes you save a few dollars, but trust me there are enough people out there who won't buy online, they have to go to a store, get some advice from a knowledgable person like me. They want to see the products, touch them etc. If stores like mine dissapear, the supp companies will too as there aren't enough online buyers to sustain the market. Some companies see this, american cellular labs for example ONLY sells to max muscles, that's it. Ever notice when you go online to see how some supps rate, you never see max muscle or ACL products EVER? Most online shoppers probably don't even know they exist, this is because online sites rate products they SELL, and as a result you can NEVER trust them or any of the people attesting to their greatness. "I gained 20 pounds in 3 weeks on such and such!" yeah right. I have a large base of consistent customers who trust me to give them honest advice and opinions and I do. Go ahead, keep undercutting people like me and watch the whole industry collapse.

I wish you luck but i buy from vitamin shoppe anyways so i'm not hooking up any of the little guys supp shops would be great if the supp industry could still exist in retail form but too much greed(bought for 22 sold for 38 wtf those are drug dealer prices dude)it should be something more like bought for 22 sold for 27(thats 25% markup the same as milk in the grocery store) bought for 22 sold for 30-33 is still pretty fair but see every supp shop in the world is guilty of extreme greed the whole whey industry is guilty of extreme greed and hopefully somebody will see that and step in soon and just kick everybodys ass......really you all have been price fixing for way too long.......i mean think about it its a store that sells vitamins and whey protein thats all......i think its obvious that the dairy industry has decided they are going to take you guys out or at least make you a bit poorer......but i believe they are going to take you out...........

[Havenbull]

Not 100% markup I sell at suggested retail, customers come here because I am flexible with my pricing and almost always work out deals with people. The more you spend at one, the cheaper I make things it all evens out. What I'm saying is I was purchasing it for 22 dollars and selling for 38, now it costs 38 and the suggested retail is 75 this is ludicrous. Btw we HAVE to sell for a profit this size, trust me running a business is expensive. Also the supplement companies aren't going to kill themselves, it's the cheap consumers who will. Lately sales have been dropping because so many people are buying online, but these online retailers are shooting themselves in the foot and so are the people who buy from them. Yes you save a few dollars, but trust me there are enough people out there who won't buy online, they have to go to a store, get some advice from a knowledgable person like me. They want to see the products, touch them etc. If stores like mine dissapear, the supp companies will too as there aren't enough online buyers to sustain the market. Some companies see this, american cellular labs for example ONLY sells to max muscles, that's it. Ever notice when you go online to see how some supps rate, you never see max muscle or ACL products EVER? Most online shoppers probably don't even know they exist, this is because online sites rate products they SELL, and as a result you can NEVER trust them or any of the people attesting to their greatness. "I gained 20 pounds in 3 weeks on such and such!" yeah right. I have a large base of consistent customers who trust me to give them honest advice and opinions and I do. Go ahead, keep undercutting people like me and watch the whole industry collapse.

Where's your store?

[GroinkTropin]

I wish you luck but i buy from vitamin shoppe anyways so i'm not hooking up any of the little guys supp shops would be great if the supp industry could still exist in retail form but too much greed(bought for 22 sold for 38 wtf those are drug dealer prices dude)it should be something more like bought for 22 sold for 27(thats 25% markup the same as milk in the grocery store) bought for 22 sold for 30-33 is still pretty fair but see every supp shop in the world is guilty of extreme greed the whole whey industry is guilty of extreme greed and hopefully somebody will see that and step in soon and just kick everybodys ass......really you all have been price fixing for way too long.......i mean think about it its a store that sells vitamins and whey protein thats all......i think its obvious that the dairy industry has decided they are going to take you guys out or at least make you a bit poorer......but i believe they are going to take you out...........

We might charge 38, but remember we have a frequent buyer card which is equal to 10% of all purchases, not to mention I get a little flexibility with giving discounts IE all cops military and civil servants get auto 20% off, and if you shop regularly I start hooking you up. If you come in and want to spend say 300 bucks, you're going to get shit a LOT cheaper. I get to work with people, whereas at vitamin shoppe there is none of that. Also my knowledge isn't free, I've been in the game 14 years now try going to GNC or vitamin shoppe how many of those people opinions would you trust? I remember interviewing at GNC and they told me every month a new product is hyped which you must sell like crazy offering it to every customer as this is paid for by the supp company in question (usually muscle tech). I have people coming in here telling me some dumb woman told them to take cell-tech for fat loss because creatine is a shredding agent or some bullshit. If you guys want GNC and Vitamin shoppe to stick around fine support them I will just move on and you can get advice from people who are paid to do/say whatever muscletech wants them to.

[bigpower]

Mike,

I read what you wrote, and to be honest with you I do not think you need to explain yourself.
You need to be in the market in order to know how hard it is, if not being here for the profits so to what for.

 I'm in the supplements industry for the past 9 years and know how hard it is, I'm not here for the fun of it, for me it all start as an hobby which eventually came out to be my profession.

You can not hold this business without making good profits, people think that if you buy in 22 and sell at 38 you take 16 $ into your pocket, where is all the expenses ?

I bet that if you will buy at 22 and sell at 27 you will close the business tomorrow. I'm not from the US; I own a company located out side the US but have a wide knowledge of how the market works everywhere.

Whishing you all the best,

[GroinkTropin]

Mike,

I read what you wrote, and to be honest with you I do not think you need to explain yourself.
You need to be in the market in order to know how hard it is, if not being here for the profits so to what for.

 I'm in the supplements industry for the past 9 years and know how hard it is, I'm not here for the fun of it, for me it all start as an hobby which eventually came out to be my profession.

You can not hold this business without making good profits, people think that if you buy in 22 and sell at 38 you take 16 $ into your pocket, where is all the expenses ?

I bet that if you will buy at 22 and sell at 27 you will close the business tomorrow. I'm not from the US; I own a company located out side the US but have a wide knowledge of how the market works everywhere.

Whishing you all the best,

Thank you man it's not as easy as some might think. You want to see price gouging, look at otomix I just ordered a pair of shoes for a customer that cost ME 70 dollars! I charged her 85 out the door and she muttered about how pricey they were! WHat should I do sell them to her for free?? Hell the shoes are so shitty I'm sure it costs otomix 10 dollars to freakin make them, and they charge me 70!!!! Outrageous.