Tom Prince:
MILOS: *Since you and I are friends, I hope I can interject in a way that eases how you feel following having read Chad's article in MD.
I remember very, VERY clearly, telling you that Nasser was ****ing with you, and giving you bullnuts info. *We were backstage at the 1999 Night Of Champions when I told you. *I told you Chad didn't use the plasma expanders on any of his athlete's. *
I wish you hadn't chosen to believe Nasser, instead of me. *BUt, being better friends with Nasser, I do understand. *
Since Chad and I have talked about the plasma expanders at least 100 times, I'm going to answer your post of Chad's behalf. *He doesn't need me to, but I can be impartial and fair to both of you.
At one point, Chad DID think the plasma expanders could be a plausible way to dry an athlete out, and pass the diuretic test. *This was before he really had any experience in using it, and prior to him having any solid imperical evidence either for, or against, the plasma expanders.
Since I happen to familiar with the timeframe (1996), and series of how these events and conversations between you two took place, I can tell you with absolute certainty, YOU WERE TALKING TO CHAD BEFORE HE HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY RESEARCH THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF PLASMA EXPANDERS.
Further, Chad gave you the formula for how they might work, or should work. *The truth, as you know, is that the plasma expanders do work.. for about 30 minutes or so. *The problem ISN'T that they work, it's in the time frame in which they work.
The 30 minute window a person has to rid the bloodstream of the fluid that was just pulled out of the sub-q layer, will spill back into the sub-q layer in you don't get it out of your bloodstream. * This is a brutally tough thing to master, and takes more precesion that would ever be worth all the work it takes. * I think you know all this already.
When Chad discovered all this, he never came close to using them. *Unfortuneately, you we're still believing Nasser's bullnuts.
Maybe Chad should have come to you and told you that he knew Nasser was being an not a very nice person, and lying to you. *But, if you know Chad, he doesn't butt into to other people's business. *So, I decided to tell what Chad and Nassser wouldn't. *
I thought Nasser was being a nutshead.. so I told you. *And now you know why.
I understand you feel betrayed by a friend. *But, I'm not sure you should be pointing a finger at Chad. * Chad never intentionally tried to **** with you. *Nasser did.
As always, you can call to talk to me about any of this. *I e-mailed you my phone number.
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Tom,
I hope you know that I respect you as a person and great bodybuilder.
I appreciate that you took the time to respond (wonder why CHAD didn’t?).
But, Chad’s article in MD was beyond disturbing and if you REALLY read it from very beginning this is a bottom line:
He (Chad) wants to clarify crazy little rumor about bodybuilders using plasma expanders.
He emphasize that he knew that one of his athletes had a conversation with certain nutritionist (by the way at that point I was ONLY a pro bodybuilder trying to do my job – compete as much as I can to make a living) and he was aware that his “jokester” athlete told me completely fabricated story.
Instead of making an effort and coming to me (like you did in 1999) and telling me the truth - he indeed LAUGHED HIS ASS OFF AND DOWN DEEP!
What does that tell you? Than he admits also to: QUOTE: “ I enjoy a great subject of controversy as much as anyone, AND TRULY LOVE f**kING WITH A PERSON’S HEAD (the more I can confuse someone the better)!”
What a great person to take advice from? And I did, as I trusted him, just like I trusted Nasser…as I believe if nothing else I gave them insight on some contest preparation secrets THEY NEVER NEW ABOUT (until that point, I guarantee it). Secrets that was crucial in both of their careers.
I certainly wouldn’t doubt Nasser after he told me EXACTLY what Chad recommended me before (but I was afraid to try it).
Nasser’s condition at 1997 Mr. Olympia was unbelievable and I was first to say that he deserved to win. I even sent the fax to Dorian telling him that, with detailed analysis why I believe Nasser was a better bodybuilder that day (irrelevant here, but I do want to mention that).
So, what would you (or any competitor) do in my position?
Chad knowing possible consequences could prevent them…but…
If all that was fabricated (in 1997) why would he told me exactly the same procedure for 1998 NOC?
Maybe you don’t know that, but for 1998 Night of Champions I was using plasma expenders the way Chad was instructing me over the phone. Only thing that he changed it this time around was – using specially made Manitol that only he had, and I could get it from him in New York.
Well, at that point I was broke, could not afford it and I decide it to buy manitol in pharmacy for fraction of his coast.
I used plasma expanders, looked great when I went to athletes meeting (around 11am or 12 –noon), and sure enough by the time of prejudging I spilled over worst possible way. My very possible top 5 finish (I managed to beat Matarazzo 2 weeks before in San Francisco, without PE) become wishful thinking (placed 11th).
Anyway, believe it or not – when you finally told me the truth after 1999 NOC, I never touch it again.
So, I did take your word over Nasser’s, but it was 2 years to late.
If you see the time I posted my previous post –it was around 2AM…after I did my cardio at midnight. That’s when I picked up MD to “kill the time”.
I was so outraged that I had to respond, and quite honestly I still am.
Thank you for taking the time Tom, it means a lot to me. I know that YOU care, unlike other people I called out to respond.
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Chad Nicholls:
Milos - you don't realize how big of an idiot you've just made yourself look like! You are so far off base here. Maybe Nasser did talk to you about the PE back then - BUT - you WERE NOT THE NUTRITIONIST Nasser spoke to at the Olympia Banquet in 1997 - Just like you stated above - I didn't even remotely think of you as a nutritionist back then, I thought of you as a pro body builder - so you've already jumped to conclusions on that point. And, if you want to know the reason we laughed our asses off - the person Nasser told his whopper to - and it was a whopper! Took it to heart and actually wrote out a plan from everything Nasser told him (and let me tell you the amounts that Nasser made up were just ridiculous!!!- and faxed this plan out to several people trying to pass it off as his own - now, Milos - does that sound like you? I don't think so!! I know you would've picked up on the complete Bullnuts immediately because it was just like I said, ridiculous!
But, since YOU opened the can of worms, we can definitely talk about this now.-The deal with Paul was so much of an untruth I don't know where to begin - that makes NO sense whatsoever that I would ask you to talk to Paul about having me work with him. First of all - I had been friends with Paul since 1992 - as he and Kim turned pro together at the North American and that's where our friendship began and from that point over the years, we started a working relationship. The truth is, I actually began working with Paul before Nasser - actually I started working with Nasser briefly after Paul - but I had already been friends with Paul for a long time - so I'm not sure where you got that story?? Maybe you and I talked about Paul and he and I working together - but to be honest with you - I have no idea where your story came from - still scratching my head on that one!
So, let's get to the Plasma expanders - if you are going to tell the truth - get it straight - the first time you and I talked about it was at the Caveman event - I believe it was May of 1997? Could've been 1996 - can't quite remember - but I do know that it had NOTHING to do with Manitol - the only product I had brought up and was looking into at the time was Albumin. I had told you that I had found this product - that it was a way around the diuretic test - that it looked like it was something that could work very good. And there was no joking behind that. When I first looked into this - I thought, yes, PE could be a very good possibility - however, the more I looked into it - and I've laid all this out in my article - they just don't work - as there are too many other variables involved.
Now you and I talked a couple of other times about PE, but nothing was laid out until you and I talked on the phone before the NOC. --And, at that time, I told you I wasn't using it - however, I did tell you that I had a special version of the Manitol - which was something that a friend of mine had come up with - but it ended up not working worth a nuts either. However, I thought it would work fantastic and was told that it would work fantastic - I even told you the whole basis behind it - and you went to Victor Conte and told him and he told you he could make the same thing.
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Milos Sarcev
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Milos Sarcev
Re: Chad Nichols column/ july 2003 MD
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2003, 06:26:46 PM » Reply with quote
(continuing)
The '98 NOC was the first year I worked with Ronnie - we didn't use ANY PE - Manitol - special blends - Albumin - NOTHING - we used the diuretic that I use today - except back then it was a little different version than now - a little stronger and faster, which is something that has been changed over the years. So, the only time I actually ever laid out anything for you was over the phone before the NOC and you basically told me you had Dextran and Manitol. And - I even told you over the phone that they didn't work! --But you kept insisting that you thought Nasser was using them - and I told you straight out NO BULLnuts - NOT TO USE THEM!! Seems as though you don't remember any of this? You kept insisting over the phone hypothetically - what if I would do this or that??? And I basically told you how they would work and before the conversation was over - I specifically told you I would NOT use the PE - to that you told me you were going to talk to Victor, because he could do something with the Manitol.
Now, if you want to put everything out there for everyone to read - I was NOT referring to YOU as the nutritionist - and I was not laughing behind YOUR back! I knew that Nasser had spoken to you about them - but I didn't think he had laid out amounts anything like that - I was referring to the person at the Olympia Banquet - which wasn't you - I repeat Milos, it WASN'T YOU!!! However, the person I referred to at one of the shows that had ruptured veins that looked like a drug addict - was YOU! At the NOC - and Tom Prince even tried to tell you that none of my athletes were using the PE and he said you still didn't believe him. You even came up to me after pre-judging at that show - showed me your arms complaining about them - and I told you again at that point that I thought you were crazy for using them and that NONE of my athletes were using them.
Now, as far as me trying to keep everyone confused - absolutely! It's in my best interest and in the best interest of every single one of my athletes - Ronnie, Flex, all of these guys had paid me LOTS of money to get them in shape - so why would I go around just giving everyone their information? Doesn't really make sense. And, for you to think that by saying that I would intentionally put information out there to hurt people - you are insane! I would hope that YOU would have more common sense than that. People who know me know that I just don't put ANY information out there - I just don't say anything - I keep most everything to myself. And, the truth is, it's really nobody's business. Everyone is different, everyone gets ready differently and doing differnt things and it's just no one's business what these guys are doing. There's a lot of people within the industry that need to practice the silence a little more - as too many go on and on and just run their mouths endlessly - and before you get upset and jump to conclusions AGAIN - I'm not referring to you here!
I will say, that the one ironic thing I found through this entire scenario was that YOU, Shawn and Kevin were the ones calling Wayne complaining - yet out of all of my athletes and you three- You, Milos, were the only one using them? HHHMMM?? That's a very interesting point, probably nothing I would've ever mentioned - and didn't in my article - but if we are clearing the air here - oh well. It was at the same time that Shawn called Wayne and wanted to have me arrested upon checking in to the Southgate Hotel and searched at the '98 Olympia. He swears that he didn't call Crime Stoppers, but really - what's the difference between that and him calling Wayne wanting me arrested upon check in and searched at the hotel. Same scenario to me.
So, during this whole ordeal - you were the one using the PE. End of story! I would suggest - next time, you send me a private e-mail or discuss this with me before you decide to air everything - especially something like this where you were so off base on SO many points. For some reason you must feel I have it in for you??? I told you - I don't have anything against you - so I don't know why everytime I say something or write something - you take it as a dig against you?
CHAD--
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Chad, as you believe I am off base on so many points and I made myself look like a big idiot, here is some more idioticall (but truthful) facts.
And before I start – I don’t know where you are getting that I feel you have something against me?
If I do I would be first one to tell you.
But, point number one:
I feel so much better that you and Nasser did not trick me, but someone else.
I am honored to be in group of people you don’t want to f**k with their heads and lives. I just wonder WHO is that other pour nutritionist?
Does that really matter or change your character?
You did the same horrible thing and laugh about it, only difference is (supposedly) –it wasn’t me!
However, I did spoke to Nasser, you and Tom knew about it…and crazy amounts of plasma expenders that Nasser was suggesting –was exactly 5 bags of PE, starting on Thursday and continuing on Friday –six hours apart. So, as you wrote in MD –it was indeed amount you would recommend.
Point number two: You don’t know where I got the story about Paul asking me things that I said.
Couple of weeks before 1997 Mr. Olympia he called me and told me that you encouraged him to call me and ask me what I think of plasma expenders and would I use them. I did not make up the story –it was precise time, date and conversation that took place.
Point three: It was the Caveman guest posing –exactly on April 12th 1997 when you and I talked (with our wives). I still have saved exact piece of paper with your recommendations –I have a proof I can show you – and there was no talk about albumin, but exact plasma expenders that I already quoted in previous post.
Half liter of either Macrodex, Dextran or Hespan –every 6 hours! So, get your facts straight!
That was obviously BEFORE 1997 Olympia. My conversation with you about 1998 NOC was certainly after the ’97 O, and as you were telling me that plasma expanders did not work ALONE, you told me that I had to top it off with manitol!
At that time I told you that manitol is highly available and cheap – you insisted that SPECIAL manitol that only you have should be used.
It was concentrated form in injection, and one injection coast $500. You offered to bring me to New York, but I told you that I could not afford it (sad but true) and manitlol in pharmacy is $5 –so I choose to use that one.
I also told you that I have pharmacist who could get me manitol powder, that seemed to interest you, but we left it at that. BTW, that was not Victor Conte, that was local compounding pharmacist I was friends with.
Now, if you went to all that talk about what should I use for 1998 NOC, how come you didn’t offer me special diuretic you had for Ronnie?
Possibly I would be interested in that – beats poking yourself with IV etc?
For 1998 Mr. Olympia I did tell Wayne (as he asked me) everything I knew about plasma expanders. As Wayne was talking to both Shawn and Kevin they complained about unfair advantage your guys have – I didn’t. I did send lengthy fax to Wayne explaining the whole deal with PE, and he asked me if there was a test for it. I told him that indeed it was –but it could not be urine test –instead it had to be blood test. If you remember he announced that blood test was going to take a place on Saturday (interestingly, it was stopped by Rafael Santoja’s suggestion…I don’t want to even assume anything).
At athletes meeting Flex challenged me to come foreword and I said in front of everyone –that YES, I used plasma expanders earlier that year, that I almost bleed to death, and that I have nothing to hide. Does he? He swared that he did not use ANY diuretic and that he could use lying detector test. Should we comment on that? So, as you are pointing out that I was the only one using them –I publicly admitted already. Shawn and Kevin had a problem, and I understand why.
Some people are true athletes -and they would not want to have any advantage –but instead take up on opponent that is equally informed (supplied or whatever you want to use in this instance). Your athletes had advantage of being able to use something that would get them dryer (therefore more competitive) and these two didn’t. As you said –you keep everything to yourself, you don’t give any information, and some people (me?) should practice silence. When you wanted my help (back in 1995) I told you that I know you are helping one guy I particularly didn’t want to know this information, but you insured me that if I tell you it is only going to be used for you and Kim! Obviously, you put just about every athlete that I know off on program that I gave you (or slightly modified).
And, if you really want me to reveal more of that –I can. I choose not to be silent, and shared my secrets with just about anyone that asked me. Including other trainers that trained other athletes. Charles Glass, Chris Acedo, Charles Poliquin.etc. As far as pro bodybuilders there are too many to mention. And why I did that? To help them, not to make business out of it. It is your prerogative how you want to do your business. I choose NOT to be silent or secretive.
