I want this little guy and the wife is having a fit..

[SinCitysmallGUY]

i have a black caiman for sale or trade. i have had it for more than two years and done my best to keep it small. i am asking $150 for it. but would trade for somthing of same value. or a cash trade thing. must be over 18 to do anything with me on this deal! i like guns , 4x4's, home brewing suply's, WW2 stuff, ect. P.S. pic is a old one i can get newer one's if need be. and yes this is the real deal and totaly legal in idaho. 
 

[Geo]

i have had it for more than two years and done my best to keep it small.
 

just out of curiousity,how do ya keep a lizard from growing ?

[BigNBloated]

You dont increase the size of its meals. Typically you would start with pinky mice and move onto baby mice with fur and then full grown mice and finally rats.

To keep them small you just never move onto larger prey.

[Vet]

i have a black caiman for sale or trade. i have had it for more than two years and done my best to keep it small. i am asking $150 for it. but would trade for somthing of same value. or a cash trade thing. must be over 18 to do anything with me on this deal! i like guns , 4x4's, home brewing suply's, WW2 stuff, ect. P.S. pic is a old one i can get newer one's if need be. and yes this is the real deal and totaly legal in idaho. 
 

it sure looks like a juvenile american alligator to me.   

[Vet]

You dont increase the size of its meals. Typically you would start with pinky mice and move onto baby mice with fur and then full grown mice and finally rats.

To keep them small you just never move onto larger prey.

Which is pure bullshit.  What will happen is you'll have an animal with severe metabolic bone disease and other health issues.  I've seen too many reptiles with serious health problems because of that approach.  It doesn't work and give you a healthy reptile.  If you can't house it as an adult, then you shouldn't have it.  Its that simple. 

[Vet]

Sin, I'm not trying to be a dick, but this is a picture of juvenile Melanosuchus guy, or black caimans. 

here is a picture:




Look at the distinct "camouflage" markings on the head and the head shape.  What you have in that picture is an American alligator.  It was relatively common a few years back to see alligators in the pet trade in northern states as "black caimans".  Basically it was a con to get people to pay 3x what the cost of a true captive bred black caiman was worth for an animal that was a whole lot cheaper.  I was taken by the same line about 13 years ago.  My wife and I kept the alligator for several years.

[~flower~]

Which is pure bullshit.  What will happen is you'll have an animal with severe metabolic bone disease and other health issues.  I've seen too many reptiles with serious health problems because of that approach.  It doesn't work and give you a healthy reptile.  If you can't house it as an adult, then you shouldn't have it.  Its that simple. 

  agree!!  

[Geo]

If you can't house it as an adult, then you shouldn't have it.  Its that simple. 

actually  if it can't tell ya when it has to pee or wants to eat.....it should'nt be a pet

[Vet]

actually  if it can't tell ya when it has to pee or wants to eat.....it should'nt be a pet

yeah, my dogs speak perfect English.   

I disagree with that attitude.  Almost all animals will tell you if they are hungry.  Its just a matter of recognizing the behavior and understanding it.  The peeing thing is a bit different.  Who cares when a fish pees? 

[SinCitysmallGUY]

Yeah well then I want a damn alligator.. I would love to have this guy until he outgrows our house then I would love to donate it to the local zoo. I have checked with them and their vet is the one that has been treating the animal and answering any quesitons for the couple who own it now. The wife isn't thrilled about the idea and I doubt she let's me get it.. I just think it would be cool to have. Plus I could learn how to wrestle alligators and I could become the worlds best....





Just kdding about the whole wrestling thing..

Vet you think that the price is good for the little guy?

[Vet]

Yeah well then I want a damn alligator.. I would love to have this guy until he outgrows our house then I would love to donate it to the local zoo. I have checked with them and their vet is the one that has been treating the animal and answering any quesitons for the couple who own it now. The wife isn't thrilled about the idea and I doubt she let's me get it.. I just think it would be cool to have. Plus I could learn how to wrestle alligators and I could become the worlds best....





Just kdding about the whole wrestling thing..

Vet you think that the price is good for the little guy?

Well..... first off DO NOT plan on donating that gator to a zoo.  Almost all of the zoos I know won't take species like american alligators---they won't take most species of psitticines or reptiles anymore.   Iknow this for a fact from work. 

Second, its a gator. This is a reptile capable of getting to 10 feet in length and weighing in excess of 600 lbs or a whole lot bigger (And FYI, black caimans can get that big also---blacks are the biggest caiman species, the difference is they have worse attitudes).  Unless you live south of the Mason-Dixon line where there are warm winters or are independantly wealthy, you won't be able to house such an animal as an adult.

Third, this is a top level carnivore.  Unless you have extensive experience with crocodilians or varanid lizards, I wouldn't recommend it.  You could end up missing a dog or a finger. 

All that said, I really liked the alligator that I had.  I did ultimately end up euthanizing him because he outgrew any hope of me housing him correctly.  He also started attacking my lab---it go so bad he'd launch himself out of the tank after the dog when the dog went by.  I had some offers for selling him to a local bar and what not, but I opted for euthanasia because I felt that was the best thing. 

As far as price goes, it depends on where you live right now.  In states like Ohio where there is legislation on the books to outlaw crocodilians as pets (which I disagree with), they are a dime a dozen.  You could probably get a3-4 footer for $75 to 125 depending on who you bought it from.   In other states, they can be a bit more expensive.   Typically $100-$175 for a 3 footer depending on if you went to a reptile dealer or a pet store.  Black Caimans are exceedingly rare in the pet trade.  The last time I saw ligitimate ones, Crutchfield was selling them for nearly $500 apiece.  Crutchfield wsa shut down 10 years ago by the feds for illegal importation.  I've heard reports of them being captive bred by some reptile breeders, but I haven't seen one on a price list in a long, long time.   That price difference is why the scam selling alligators started.  Its a quick 250% profit. 

[BigNBloated]

HAHA chill out vet, i was simply answering a questions. Thats how people keep gators small. I had a corn snake once, i was excited to see it grow and feed it as much as possible. He escaped though, and that was my final reptile purchase.

As much as you talk about how much bullshit that is you inevitably euthanized a gator because you couldnt house it. Maybe you should watch your tone a bit before you get on your high horse and preach about whats wrong with how people feed their animals.

[Vet]

HAHA chill out vet, i was simply answering a questions. Thats how people keep gators small. I had a corn snake once, i was excited to see it grow and feed it as much as possible. He escaped though, and that was my final reptile purchase.

As much as you talk about how much bullshit that is you inevitably euthanized a gator because you couldnt house it. Maybe you should watch your tone a bit before you get on your high horse and preach about whats wrong with how people feed their animals.

And like i said, those ridiculous feeding practices are why I've seen numerous unhealthy reptiles.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou over the alligator I used to own.  I'm speaking from experience as at that time an inexperienced over enthusiastic reptile owner.  I personally would love to get another one, but I'm not going to until I get some land down south where I can house them appropriately.  I hope others can learn from my fuckups. 

[BigNBloated]

Alright, i figured you for someone who didnt take the holier than thou approach to things but its just came off that way. Pet owners make mistakes as you experienced yourself and lots of people receive bad advice.

[nuyork143]

actually  if it can't tell ya when it has to pee or wants to eat.....it should'nt be a pet

Seriously!

[SinCitysmallGUY]

Well..... first off DO NOT plan on donating that gator to a zoo.  Almost all of the zoos I know won't take species like american alligators---they won't take most species of psitticines or reptiles anymore.   Iknow this for a fact from work. 

Second, its a gator. This is a reptile capable of getting to 10 feet in length and weighing in excess of 600 lbs or a whole lot bigger (And FYI, black caimans can get that big also---blacks are the biggest caiman species, the difference is they have worse attitudes).  Unless you live south of the Mason-Dixon line where there are warm winters or are independantly wealthy, you won't be able to house such an animal as an adult.

Third, this is a top level carnivore.  Unless you have extensive experience with crocodilians or varanid lizards, I wouldn't recommend it.  You could end up missing a dog or a finger. 

All that said, I really liked the alligator that I had.  I did ultimately end up euthanizing him because he outgrew any hope of me housing him correctly.  He also started attacking my lab---it go so bad he'd launch himself out of the tank after the dog when the dog went by.  I had some offers for selling him to a local bar and what not, but I opted for euthanasia because I felt that was the best thing. 

As far as price goes, it depends on where you live right now.  In states like Ohio where there is legislation on the books to outlaw crocodilians as pets (which I disagree with), they are a dime a dozen.  You could probably get a3-4 footer for $75 to 125 depending on who you bought it from.   In other states, they can be a bit more expensive.   Typically $100-$175 for a 3 footer depending on if you went to a reptile dealer or a pet store.  Black Caimans are exceedingly rare in the pet trade.  The last time I saw ligitimate ones, Crutchfield was selling them for nearly $500 apiece.  Crutchfield wsa shut down 10 years ago by the feds for illegal importation.  I've heard reports of them being captive bred by some reptile breeders, but I haven't seen one on a price list in a long, long time.   That price difference is why the scam selling alligators started.  Its a quick 250% profit. 

Far from experinced but I have had a few summers of working at a large reptile breeders fac... He had a gator and I used to help with that one, he also had a 10 ft albino named sunshine. Sweetest thing in the world... She used to come with me on walks wasn't scared of shit.. If a dog barked at her she was like fuck it i'll eat you.. She was bad I heard she died of something a year or so ago.. Not sure though..

[~flower~]

Hey Sin, aren't you guys expecting?   Why get a pet that requires special care and  on top of that will one day require you trying to find a home for it that will be very unlikely you will find?  And that could eat your baby!!

       

[~flower~]

In states like Ohio where there is legislation on the books to outlaw crocodilians as pets (which I disagree with)

 Do you think a license should be required to have one?  Both for the animals sake and the publics?  So only a responsible person who will properly take care of it can have one?

[BigNBloated]

Where i went to school in ohio they would routinely find small dead, gators and pirhana washed up in on the of the universities ponds that were on campus. I knew a couple guys who bought gators while in college. Seemed rediculous to me to get one while in school, most of them obviously just let them go when when they finish school.

[SinCitysmallGUY]

Hey Sin, aren't you guys expecting?   Why get a pet that requires special care and  on top of that will one day require you trying to find a home for it that will be very unlikely you will find?  And that could eat your baby!!

       

Yeah were expecting, I just found out that there is a hot springs just about 4 hours away that has gators as part of their deal.. I dont get it these rednecks are crazy.. But I would love to have him as a display piece for a year or two..

[Vet]

Where i went to school in ohio they would routinely find small dead, gators and pirhana washed up in on the of the universities ponds that were on campus. I knew a couple guys who bought gators while in college. Seemed rediculous to me to get one while in school, most of them obviously just let them go when when they finish school.

Flower: regulations are based on individual city. Typically cities that have idiot city councils with strict dog breed legislation also have strict reptile regulations.  Also, states were reptiles are native are the ones that have regulations---for example alligators and alligator snappers in southern states are strictly regulated by fish and wildlife. 


As far as them being turned loose---its very very true.  I made a fair amount of money in college crawling under peoples houses and wading out in water up to my neck catching released/escaped crocodilians.  It doesn't make sense to have something like an alligator and then just turn it loose when it gets too big. 

[emn1964]

For what its worth, a friend of mine has three gators that he has had for about 7 years.  he kept a 3 foot caiman for a friend of his while his friend had a new enclosure built.  he said that the caiman was much more aggressive than his gators and was happy to give it back to his friend.  so if you are new to keeping these type of animals, the caiman may not be the starter pet for you.

[Butterbean]

Dear Sin,

No.



 

[Geo]

Yeah we are expecting,

don't alligators eat babies ?

[SinCitysmallGUY]

don't alligators eat babies ?

Naw man my first born will eat alligators...