about 5 years of serious training with hormones can give you national physiqe,,most who get to national level take about 10 years but get no where,,
anyone who got to national within 3 years of serious training had athletics in his life from before and trained before only not as serious,,
drug use a must in any case ,,it has to be continuous drug use that include legit pharma dianabol nandrolone testosterone ,,,for the bigger guys gh today is a must not because its so good but because every one use it so you want to be on level field,,the smaller guys can go on with no growth but later on they will need it too
i perfer to completely take out gh and insulin from bodybuilding,,as in to allow aas and be proud of it and completely prohibit gh and insulin