What you will get with socialized health care

[militarymuscle69]

Average wait times in Canada and England as reported by the Fraser Institute (Canada) and the House of Commons Natilnal Stastics (England)

(Fraser Institute, Focuses on the role competitive markets play in providing for the economic and social well-being of Canadians. www.fraserinstitute.org)

Canada:

Cardio= 5 weeks
Neuro= 10.7 weeks
Ortho= 24.2 weeks
General=5.7 weeks
Opthhamology= 11.8 weeks
Gynecology= 6.6 weeks (and you wonder why Jag's puss stinks)
Urology= 5.1 weeks

England

Cardio= 6.4 weeks
Neuro= 6.6 weeks
Ortho=  10.2 weeks
General= 7.4 weeks
Opthhamology=  6.8 weeks
Gynecology= 8.1 weeks
Urology=  6.2 weeks

[Hedgehog]

Fraser Institute isn't exactly known for being neutral on issues.

[militarymuscle69]

Are the numbers wrong?

[Nordic Superman]

You do realise that in the UK you can still have private health care right?

You even don't have to pay as much into the NHS.

[militarymuscle69]

You do realise that in the UK you can still have private health care right?

You even don't have to pay as much into the NHS.

But do NHS and private see the same doctors? In other words, does having NHS effect the wait times of private?

[Nordic Superman]

But do NHS and private see the same doctors? In other words, does having NHS effect the wait times of private?

In England the existence of the NHS makes the majority of the populace use it's doctor, dental and hospital facilities, lowering the demand stress on the private sector.

The private sector is absolutely awesome if you have the dosh (none existant waiting times etc... [unless of course you need a kidney or new heart]). Depending on your job prestige you may get it all free via the employer.

I honestly believe a national health service has made the private sector very healthy in Britain.

Business is booming for them (private sector) ATM.

[Fury]

Socialized health care won't benefit anyone that can afford their own healthcare at this moment.

[Nordic Superman]

Socialized health care won't benefit anyone that can afford their own healthcare at this moment.

What about the 40+ mil people without healthcare?

Those people sub-human, unworthy of treatment?

[militarymuscle69]

What about the 40+ mil people without healthcare?

Those people sub-human, unworthy of treatment?

The beauty of America is that you can attain anything you want. if you drop out of highschool, get addicted to drugs or choose to spend your paycheck on a SUV as opposed to helth care then to bad

[Nordic Superman]

The beauty of America is that you can attain anything you want. if you drop out of highschool, get addicted to drugs or choose to spend your paycheck on a SUV as opposed to helth care then to bad

This is such a stupid comment on so many levels. Idiotic beyond belief.

You can attain anything you want if you're Chinese, African or American. Maybe life has been one sweet ride for you without any collisions; but believe it or not certain uncontrollable events during many peoples lives lead to not being able to afford private health care.

You are a mental midget.

[Hugo Chavez]

monster misconceptions...

[Nordic Superman]

monster misconceptions...

Monster "input" from a "moderator"!

[Hugo Chavez]

Monster "input" from a "moderator"!

before you didn't want me to provide input, now you do... make up your mind...  For some, a wait is better than nothing at all.  Plus I don't believe there are any current plans to do away with choice in America.  If you've got your plan you like, it's my understanding that you don't have to change over to any universal system.  No politician has indicated that would be so.  So it adds up to a misconception noting what you will get... No offense meant to you MM69.

[Dos Equis]

Don't forget your taxes will go through the roof. 

[Nordic Superman]

before you didn't want me to provide input, now you do... make up your mind...  For some, a wait is better than nothing at all.  Plus I don't believe there are any current plans to do away with choice in America.  If you've got your plan you like, it's my understanding that you don't have to change over to any universal system.  No politician has indicated that would be so.  So it adds up to a misconception noting what you will get... No offense meant to you MM69.

Don't forget your taxes will go through the roof.

Like I said, in Britain you can opt out to some degree. No government pension/health care tho.

Life >  Taxes

[militarymuscle69]

This is such a stupid comment on so many levels. Idiotic beyond belief.

You can attain anything you want if you're Chinese, African or American. Maybe life has been one sweet ride for you without any collisions; but believe it or not certain uncontrollable events during many peoples lives lead to not being able to afford private health care.

You are a mental midget.

We have medical care assistance for people with uncontrolable circumstances (medicare, medicaid) but universal health care will give health care to those dropout, drug addicts I was talking about.

I have in no way had a sweet ride. Quite the contrary, but as a college dropout with a pregnant GF at age 19 I had to make a choice. I chose to join the military and get the health care that I needed for my family.

Every american begins life with the same chances, and there are plenty of sucess stoires of people born to drug heads, homeless etc to prove that.

"'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

That is all these people want. Are there Americans that are simply hard on their luck, sure there are. But 90% of the people that will recieve free health care could buy a few less cases of beer, few less cartons of cigarettes, eat less fast food, shut off their cable and internet (as I have had to do in the past) and be able to afford private health care.

I am 100% for health care for children 18 and under. But once they hot 15, 16, 17 they need to be taught that they will need to take school seriously in order to provide for a future family. Not that they can coast through and depend on me to pay for their health care.

So take your handouts somewhere else.

[Dos Equis]

Like I said, in Britain you can opt out to some degree. No government pension/health care tho.

Life >  Taxes

Don't know anything about Britain, but I have talked to more than one Canadian about their tax burden.  Their taxes are ridiculously high. 

[Nordic Superman]

That is all these people want. Are there Americans that are simply hard on their luck, sure there are. But 90% of the people that will recieve free health care could buy a few less cases of beer, few less cartons of cigarettes, eat less fast food, shut off their cable and internet (as I have had to do in the past) and be able to afford private health care.

I am 100% for health care for children 18 and under. But once they hot 15, 16, 17 they need to be taught that they will need to take school seriously in order to provide for a future family. Not that they can coast through and depend on me to pay for their health care.

Now we're getting somewhere. I agree to some extent, especially with the second paragraph.

What angers me about the NHS is that is a flat universal fee. People who eat / smoke themselves to death should pay a higher price. It's not about me subsidizing their sick habits.

[militarymuscle69]

Now we're getting somewhere. I agree to some extent, especially with the second paragraph.

What angers me about the NHS is that is a flat universal fee. People who eat / smoke themselves to death should pay a higher price. It's not about me subsidizing their sick habits.

If I were to set up a universal health care system it owuld look something like this:

1) Flat fee for participants that is based on income
2) Seperate medical clinics for UHC participants so that it doesn't infringe on thos paying full price, however major surgeries would be performed at central hospitals
3) Mandatory to carry insurance on children under 18 again with the fee based on income.
4) Taxes from health problem issues (cigarettes, alcohol, fast food) used to cover extra costs not covered by flat fee

MM69 For Pres!!

[Decker]

Don't know anything about Britain, but I have talked to more than one Canadian about their tax burden.  Their taxes are ridiculously high. 

The UK system delivers better results at a savings of 40% per person when compared to the US privatized system.

With the US system you get:

*No coverage for 49 million people
*higher costs
*worse results

Sounds like a winner to me.

[militarymuscle69]

The UK system delivers better results at a savings of 40% per person when compared to the US privatized system.

With the US system you get:

*No coverage for 49 million people
*higher costs
*worse results

Sounds like a winner to me.

How will  universal health care solve the quality problem. Also how will it affect the 251 million people that do have health care? I can tell you from experienece it will be worse.

[Nordic Superman]

How will  universal health care solve the quality problem. Also how will it affect the 251 million people that do have health care? I can tell you from experienece it will be worse.

That's the problem with the US. The numbers are just on a whole other level.

It's not like it's worth the experimentation with 251 Million people to get a universal health care system.

I believe it will benefit the US in the long run, but the execution is going to be an extreme challenge to overcome.

[Decker]

How will  universal health care solve the quality problem. Also how will it affect the 251 million people that do have health care? I can tell you from experienece it will be worse.

On a per person basis, the Universal healthcare provides higher quality than the US privatized system.  But rationing does occur in the sense that elective surgeries have a waiting list.

I think that's a small price to pay for universal coverage, better results and cheaper costs.

[militarymuscle69]

being in the military we are part of a universal health care system every day. I am thankful for the money I save but it does come at a quality cost. The doctors aren't near as good, the waits are longer, and the facilities aren't near as good as when we are sent down town.

Democrats need to keep their handouts for someone else. Handouts only make society lazy.

[Dos Equis]

The UK system delivers better results at a savings of 40% per person when compared to the US privatized system.

With the US system you get:

*No coverage for 49 million people
*higher costs
*worse results

Sounds like a winner to me.

What's the tax burden in the UK?