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Author Topic: explain to me why ''fighting sioux'' is derogatory...  (Read 1273 times)
rockyfortune
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« on: November 07, 2007, 06:43:18 AM »

A $104 million dollar hockey arena may be forced to remove hundreds of images of "The Fighting Sioux," the logo and nickname of the University of North Dakota for more than 70 years, if officials can't reach an agreement with tribal councils.

The university, according to a settlement last month of a lawsuit against the National Collegiate Athletic Association, has three years to negotiate an agreement with two North Dakota Sioux tribes Spirit Lake and Standing Rock to receive approval for the continued use of the "Sioux" name and logo.

If an agreement is not reached by 2011, the university will be forced to find a new name and logo.

The hockey arena has hundreds of "Fighting Sioux" logos laid into its granite flooring, imprinted on seating and etched on doors and other areas. If an agreement cannot be reached, they would all have to be replaced.

The Ralph Engelstad Arena is the home of the "Fighting Sioux" men's and women's hockey teams, which have won seven NCAA Division I championships, the last one in 2000.

The hockey teams sell out the arena's 12,000 seats for every game and have no plan if the university fails to reach an agreement with the tribes. The arena has thousands of images of the Fighting Sioux logo, but the settlement requires only some of them to be removed.

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The Ralph Engelstad Arena "Hockey will forever be played at the Ralph Engelstad Arena, but no plan has been put in place if we have to potentially remove logos in the facility," said Chris Semrau, a spokesman for the arena, adding that the lawsuit doesn't address who would pay for the removal of the images.

Click here for photos.

Click here to visit the arena's Web site.

The university, with 12,559 students, including more than 400 Native Americans, wants to keep "The Fighting Sioux" because it represents tradition, pride and strength, said Peter Johnson, a university spokesman.

Hockey remains important to the university and the state, which doesn't have any major professional sports teams.

"It's an interest that transcends the school itself," Johnson said.

The University of North Dakota in 2005 landed on a list of 18 schools in violation of an NCAA policy that prohibits the display of Native American names or images deemed hostile or abusive on team uniforms and items at NCAA championship events.

University officials appealed being placed on the list. In 2006, the NCAA rejected the appeal and kept the university on the violation list. The university then sued the NCAA.

"The university has indicated that it intends to use the current name and logo with the utmost respect and dignity, and only for so long as it may do so with the support of the Native American community," according to a statement by the NCAA, the governing body of collegiate sports.

The organization said it "believes that the time has come to retire Native American imagery in college sports."

North Dakota University athletic teams have used an American Indian head as their symbol since the early 1930s; it says the "Fighting Sioux" name honors the first inhabitants of the region and some tribes in the state.

The arena, which opened in 2001, is a privately-owned facility that rents out to the university. The university will take over rights to the building in 2031.

"There's a potential impact down the road but nothing that is decided definite," Semrau said. "We would need to change certain things to comply with NCAA if UND doesn't get a resolution from the tribes."

The university's logo carries a long tradition that honors the Sioux, Semrau said.

"We support the Sioux logo because of the great opportunities that exist between the university and Native Americans in the region," he said. "There's a great tradition that has been built with many potential opportunities to come."

Jay Fisher, president of Student Government at UND, said students are divided over the issue, but he personally supports keeping the logo.

The settlement was a victory that put the university in a better position to negotiate an agreement with the tribal councils, but it's a difficult fight, said Fisher, a senior majoring in economics.

"It's cost a heavy toll keeping it around," he said.

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militarymuscle69
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2007, 07:11:47 AM »

because they were bad fighters?
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2007, 08:08:33 AM »

because they were bad fighters?

let's ask their descendents why their ancestors were such pussies on the battlefield.
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Decker
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 08:29:15 AM »

It doesn't sound derogatory like "Washington Redskins"....which is clearly derogatory and insulting.  How that continues is beyond me.  Why not just have the Harlem Jigaboos or such.  It's really the same thing.
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 08:40:54 AM »

Doesn't sound derogatory to me, but I'm not Native American. 
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rockyfortune
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 08:44:48 AM »

so naming a team after a tribe is insulting?  redskin i believe was considered derogatory back in the day but sioux is the name of the tribe..to put fighting in front of it makes it derogatory?  i don't see it...
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militarymuscle69
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 08:56:59 AM »

It doesn't sound derogatory like "Washington Redskins"....which is clearly derogatory and insulting.  How that continues is beyond me.  Why not just have the Harlem Jigaboos or such.  It's really the same thing.

why is that insulting? my wife is a Redskin, I never hear her family complainign about team names
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2007, 10:04:37 AM »

why is that insulting? my wife is a Redskin, I never hear her family complainign about team names
So you are asking me why the term "Redskin" is offensive to Indians?

Well, the helmet has the portrayal of an american indian on it and the team is called 'redskins'.

Here's a definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:

redskin

  noun dated or offensive an American Indian.

I know you are joking though.  A word is only a word but words mean something.
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militarymuscle69
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2007, 12:34:44 PM »

So you are asking me why the term "Redskin" is offensive to Indians?

Well, the helmet has the portrayal of an american indian on it and the team is called 'redskins'.

Here's a definition from the Oxford English Dictionary:

redskin

  noun dated or offensive an American Indian.

I know you are joking though.  A word is only a word but words mean something.

Honestly I don't think many Native Americans care. I am around the culture daily and never heard a word one about it
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2007, 01:06:51 PM »

I also wonder why it took 70+ years for this to become an issue:  "North Dakota University athletic teams have used an American Indian head as their symbol since the early 1930s . . . ."
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