pls comment: Bulk diet

[Bobby]

I'm 5.9" 182lbs @ 7.3% according to skinfold bf tester.
This is my current diet, my maintenance is 2700 and this diet lands at about 500-700kcal over that at 3200-3400 calories.
This is what i eat, but i also add ketchup, applesauce, peanut butter etc to it, but not in large amounts.

Comments?


Training Days

Meal 1.
100g Oatmeal & 3 eggs + 30g ham
55g carbs & 23g protein & 23g fat = 608 kcal

Meal 2. Pre WO shake
2 scoops whey
20g protein = 84 kcal

WORKOUT

Meal 3. Post WO shake
90g Dextrose & 3 scoops whey
80g carbs & 40g protein = 501 kcal

Meal 4.
75g Brown Rice & 1 Chiken breast
55g carbs & 40g protein & 11g fat = 520 kcal

Meal 5.
75g Brown Rice & 1 Steak/Cod
55g carbs & 40g protein & 21g fat = 520 kcal

Meal 6.
100g Oatmeal & 1 can tuna
55g carbs & 22g protein & 7.5g fat = 446 kcal

Meal 7.
100g Oatmeal & 3 eggwhites + 30g ham
55g carbs & 15g protein & 7g fat = 435 kcal

200g protein
355g carbs
70g fat
KCAL = 3114

Off Days

Meal 1.
100g Oatmeal & 3 eggs + 30g ham
55g carbs & 23g protein & 23g fat = 608 kcal

Meal 2.
75g Brown Rice & 1 Chiken breast
55g carbs & 40g protein & 11g fat = 520 kcal

Meal 3.
100g Oatmeal & 3 scoops whey
55g carbs & 30g protein & 7.5g fat = 476 kcal

Meal 4.
75g Brown Rice & 1 Steak/Cod
55g carbs & 40g protein & 21g fat = 520 kcal

Meal 5.
100g fullgrain pasta & 1 can tuna
65g carbs & 22g protein = 446 kcal

Meal 6.
100g Oatmeal & 1 can tuna & 3 eggwhites + 30g ham
55g carbs & 37g protein & 7g fat = 531 kcal

192g protein
340g carbs
70g fat
KCAL = 3101

[kukacomone]

3eggs doesnt contain 23g protein, and doesnt enaugh for your first meal. When I use eggwhites in my first meal, i usually eat 8-10. Also your meal1=meal7 but its nutritional value doesnt? Why do you eat ham? I would also dont count post and preworkout shakes for my whole meals.
I say 6 solid meal with 40g protein+75g ch/meal (+pre/postworkout shakes) would better for you.

[Bobby]

Meal 1 is 3 whole eggs 3x6g protein = 18g + 5g from the ham.
Meal 7 is only eggwhites.

Ham tastes good, is quite lowfat and helps the eggs go down easier.

It is 5-6 solid meals now + shakes. I don't really see the shakes as real meals, the one pre WO is pretty close to breakfast, and the pwo shake is followed by meal #4 within an hour

So breakfast protein is the one than needs upping the most?

[kukacomone]

I think yes. And i would eat 450g ch or more. But if you gain well with ~350g its okey i think, we are different.
How can you eat tuna with oatmeal? I cant imageine.. But i hate tuna..

[Bobby]

I look more at the calories. if i ate 450g carbs i would be too high in calories and would gain too much fat

I have tuna on a plate and put lots of barbeque spice on it. Goes down really easy then, otherwise not so tasty

[wes]

I` d eat 5-6 whole eggs instead of three.

Throw in some fibrous vegetables,salads,and some good fats such as olive oil or natty peanut butter to get your calories up a bit...............very calorie dense.

Also,switch the oatmeal in your later day meals to baked potatoes.


Drink a ton of water and don`t be afraid to eat dairy foods............cottage cheese,yogurt,and skim milk here and there will help you big time if trying to add size.

2 scoops whey = 20 grams of protein...............ge t a different brand you`re being robbed!!

[Bobby]

I try to get some broccoli and spinnage down, but it's not everyday that i eat it.
Do you think my calories and fat intake is too low?

Is there a reason to eat potato instead? because i absolutely hate potatoes...

I drink 1 - 1.5 gallon of water a day. I used to eat more dairy, haven't put any in this diet though. some milk occasionally only. I tried to make it as clean as possible, maybe i shouldn't ?

the scoops numbers is wrong (they changed it) but the amount of protein i get is correct.
it's 1 quite big scoop (˝dl)= 25g protein.

what weight gain should i aim for? 2-3lbs per week?

[kukacomone]

If you want a clean bulk diet, why dont just eat chicken and rice? This is my diet:

Meal1
100g oatmeal + 2scoops protein powder
2g fish oil or 1spoon olive/flax seed oil
Strong Multivitamin +4g C-vitamin

Meal2
125g rice + 200g chicken

Meal3
125g rice + 200g chicken

Meal4
125g rice + 200g chicken

Meal5
125g rice + 200g chicken

Meal6
500g cottage cheese (0.2% fat)
2g fish oil or 1spoon olive/flax seed oil

I think you get enough fiber from the oatmeal, and enough vitamins and minerals from a good multi, like iss super vitamin pak.

[Bobby]

Too much chiken, must be very expensive no? and can't you get food allergy from eating the same all the time, Milos said so.

[LatsMcGee]

Chicken and Egg Whites?  You need whole eggs and steak my friend.  Throw the dairy in and ditch alot of those simple sugars for good fats like peanut butter and avocados.   

[kukacomone]

I think you cant get food alergy from eating the same all the time.
I am a student and 90% of my money i spend to food. Its expensive yes, but for now i can  buy 800g chicken/day.

[Bobby]

3eggs doesnt contain 23g protein, and doesnt enaugh for your first meal. When I use eggwhites in my first meal, i usually eat 8-10. Also your meal1=meal7 but its nutritional value doesnt? Why do you eat ham? I would also dont count post and preworkout shakes for my whole meals.
I say 6 solid meal with 40g protein+75g ch/meal (+pre/postworkout shakes) would better for you.

When you said this do you mean that on my lifting day i should eat like my offday + the pre and post WO shakes ?
I should not include those shake towards the daily total of 3200kcal and on lift days i should get 3200kcal + the shakes?

[kukacomone]

I eat on my lifting days like on my off days, except the PWO shake. I sum with my off days, so i dont count the PWO shake. Also i dont really count calories.
When i am bulking, i eat 2gramm protein/bodyweightkilogramm and ~5g ch/bodyweightkilogramm.
Ofc plus efas, vitamins+minerals.
Forexample you are 182lbs what is 82kilogram, so in my opinon you need 164g protein and  410 g ch from solid meals, everyday. But if you gain fat too fast with 5g ch try with 4g, etc.. Or reverse. Start with 3g ch and if you gain to slow, go with 4, etc..

(2.2lbs=1kg)

[England_1]

I would increase your protein, and that's about it. Otherwise looks good.

[candidizzle]

Training Days

Meal 1.
100g Oatmeal & 3 eggs + 30g ham
55g carbs & 23g protein & 23g fat = 608 kcal
this is actually 519 cals.
i would drastically lower your fat intake here, normally fats are good in the morning, but not with carbs. when consuming fats and carbs at the same time the insulin release and the availability of glucose for energy will leave your body no choice but to store all of that fat...besides a few grams which it will use for body process' that use up fats.

i would also bump up your protein intake to 35 grams, maybe 45. protein is what you need to eat to grow.. and your body can synthesize up to about 45 grams, maybe 50, at a time..so why not grow as quickly as possible and take in a little more protein? it can only help you grow lean tissue..theres no way an increase of protei intake to anything less than 40 grams could lead to fat storage.


Meal 2. Pre WO shake
2 scoops whey
20g protein = 84 kcal

WORKOUT

Meal 3. Post WO shake
90g Dextrose & 3 scoops whey
80g carbs & 40g protein = 501 kcal
this is actually 480 cals.

first off i would say make that you should drink this during your workout. food, even whey protein and dextrose, takes time to digest. if you want these nutrents to hit the blood stream immidietly following exercise, you need to ingest them while your exercising.

secondly, i would say that you dont need to have nearly as much carbs, if any at all...   restoring muscle glycogen rapidly is not really needed, unless you are working out twice a day, or you have an EXTREMELY fast metabolism and EXTREMELY tough tim putting on muscle.

Meal 4.
75g Brown Rice & 1 Chiken breast
55g carbs & 40g protein & 11g fat = 520 kcalthis is only 479 calories actually

Meal 5.
75g Brown Rice & 1 Steak/Cod
55g carbs & 40g protein & 21g fat = 520 kcal
this is actually 569 cals
...again be careful with combinging fats and carbs.. this leads to fat deposits, especially when its the fat from the steak, which is saturated fat; the cod wont be as bad because it is healthy fats that dont store as easily

Meal 6.
100g Oatmeal & 1 can tuna
55g carbs & 22g protein & 7.5g fat = 446 kcal
this is actually 375 cals.
bump your proteinintake up to between 30-40 grams.

Meal 7.
100g Oatmeal & 3 eggwhites + 30g ham
55g carbs & 15g protein & 7g fat = 435 kcal
this is only 343 cals.
again...bump up your protein to 30-40 grams.

i would suggest cutting out the carbs from this last meal. intaking anything more than 100-200 calories will completely halt any nightttime catabolsim that might occur while you sleep, unless you have over 250 lbs of lean mass..lol.   your metabolism works very slowly while you sleep, and it doesnt use carbs for energy anyways.


200g protein
355g carbs
70g fat
KCAL = 3114
your diet, as you have it listed, is actually just 2849 calories.

[Bobby]

I have bumped up my breakfast protein to 35-40g.

I like carbs and they like me, they are necessary to build muscle.
A good rule of thumb is 1g protein and 2g carbs per pound of bodyweight. For a 200lbs male that is 400g carbs and 200g protein.
For calories: bodyweight x 15 = maintenance
200lbs x 15 = 3000kcal add or subtract 500-700kcal for cutting/bulking. That is what i go by.

and the calorie amount you're writing... maybe you are eating a different kind or brand of oatmeal for example, my kind has 350kcal per 100g oatmeal.

[candidizzle]

carbs are definitely not necessary for putting on muscle. in the 70's and 80's most bodybuilders had low carb diets even during their bulking phases.

if you prefer a LEAN bulk, you would actually be better offf with a high fat/high protein diet with a weekend carb up.

constant restoring of muscle glycogen is not the best way to gain muscle..because you are only refilling glycogen to their pre-workout levels.

if you fully deplete muscle glycogen your body sets its self up for supercompensation, and allows for a much greater amount of glucose to be stored in the muscle.  more glycogen capacity= larger muscles.

and with a diet where your  constantly working off of glucose, you cannot ever let your body have a lapse in available glucose without having glucogensis of proteins occuring. which means that if you have aminos in your blood stream, they will be used for energy, not for tissue repair; and if you dont have aminos in your blood stream, your body will break down muscle tissue for its neeeded glucose.

carbs are only "protein sparing" when they are present in the blood stream...     and a constant presence of carbs in the blood stream means a constant raised insulin level, a constant lowering of CAMP, catechomans, gh, and amount of free floating fatty acids.   which means= fat storage!!!!!!!!!!!

so since a diet that utilizes glucose(carbs) for energy requires that glucose constantly be present for use, and since the presence of glucose in the blood stream inhibits fat break down, and promotes fat storage; the only way possible to gain muscle while eating a diet which has you using glucose for fuel is to put on fat as well.

heres some good books= the anabolic diet, the ultimate diet, body opus, new diet revolution..

[Bobby]

Milos eats 500g carbs a day and he is low bodyfat year round so...

Muscle glycogen gets depleted during workout and supercompensation occurs when i take in my pwo shake.
+ more carbs=more energy and stronger in the gym.

You should read this one
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180201.0

[candidizzle]

Milos eats 500g carbs a day and he is low bodyfat year round so...

Muscle glycogen gets depleted during workout and supercompensation occurs when i take in my pwo shake.
+ more carbs=more energy and stronger in the gym.

You should read this one
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180201.0

no, glycogen restoration occurs when you intake those carbs. not supercompensation.

[candidizzle]

heres what a bulking diet should look like for a 200 lber..

monday-friday=
250 grams of fat.
400 grams of protein.
0 grams of carbs.
4000 calories total.
eat your fat early in the day.
protein spaced out evenly between as many meals as you can.

weekends=
750 grams of carbs.
150 grams of protein.
100 grams of fat.
4500 calories total.

[Bobby]

Why would anyone in their right mind eat 0g carbs?

[WhiteCastle]

Why would anyone in their right mind eat 0g carbs?

Half of his advice is nuts.  That part about not combining fat and carbs has been disproved several times.  The only research showing it to be true involves eating a ton of saturated fat.  The stomach can't separate the fats and the carbs into separate containers to pick and choose what to burn first.  It all globs together.

I don't know too many people who can train hard after even 2 days of no carbs and still put up good weight.  Your strength will certainly decrease and a lot of people will find that discouraging.  The part about supercompensation of glycogen has been found to be ineffective on repeated measures (it only works once).  What pros out there don't eat carbs?  Any?  Even the tons of protein typically reccomended hasn't been proven to be effective.  Where it does help is those who just start working out or those on gear.  The reason is fairly obvious - these are the times when a lifter will make the most substantial gains.  Outside of this, at best we're talking about gains that are maybe an extra rep or an extra few pounds, nothing that really requires a ton of protein. 

[MidniteRambo]

carbs are definitely not necessary for putting on muscle. in the 70's and 80's most bodybuilders had low carb diets even during their bulking phases.

"Protein burns in the furnace of the carbohydrate"--  Arnold Schwarzenegger

[sinbad]

Half of his advice is nuts.  That part about not combining fat and carbs has been disproved several times.  The only research showing it to be true involves eating a ton of saturated fat.  The stomach can't separate the fats and the carbs into separate containers to pick and choose what to burn first.  It all globs together.

I don't know too many people who can train hard after even 2 days of no carbs and still put up good weight.  Your strength will certainly decrease and a lot of people will find that discouraging.  The part about supercompensation of glycogen has been found to be ineffective on repeated measures (it only works once).  What pros out there don't eat carbs?  Any?  Even the tons of protein typically reccomended hasn't been proven to be effective.  Where it does help is those who just start working out or those on gear.  The reason is fairly obvious - these are the times when a lifter will make the most substantial gains.  Outside of this, at best we're talking about gains that are maybe an extra rep or an extra few pounds, nothing that really requires a ton of protein. 

This Ketosis diet was popular for a minute maybe 10-15 yrs ago, and you hit the nail on the head, if  you eat no carbs you have NO energy to do anything let alone work out. I found it  hard to even get my body into a state of Ketosis, I work in a hospital and could check my blood sugar. Candidate strikes me as the kind of guy who gains weight just looking at food, so for him, it may be a way to stay lean, but it will be very  hard to gain muscle that way. As you pointed out, just a few days on O carbs and you feel like shit.

[candidizzle]

yes of course you will feel like shit at first! you guysa re all addicted to carbohydrates! you have to make your body convert its metabolism over to a lipids utilizing machine.

fats are a wonderful source of energy, and you definitely can workout with a whole lot of intensity once you have made the metabolic switch. you will be much more stable throughout the day, and you wont experience any highs or lows. its a very comfortable feeling, functioning off of fat.


the only argument that holds any weight against a zero carb diet is that carbs= insulin, and insulin= storage of protein in the muscle at an accelrated rate. so the argument goes...if you dont have carbs, you arent storing protein as quickly as someone who has carbs is. but this is false! proteins and lipids BOTH secret insulin, just in much smaller amounts than carbs...but yet, its a sufficient amount to drive proteins into the muscle tissue.     and yet, its NOT large enough amount of insluin to lower GH levels, or testosterone levels, or catechamolen(sp?), camp, or lipolysis levels.

of course, if you are a "hard gainer" you could always try a targeted ketogenic diet, where youc onsume about 20 grams of fast acting carbs just prior to working out, and this will give you a big boost in insulin levels, and give your body the ability to replenish muscle glycogen levels post-workout without any additional carbohydrate intake.

BUT, you dont HAVE to eat carbs to get this same insulin/anabolic efffect around your workout. the bcaa leucine is an insulin stimulator, as is glutamine. taking these pre, during and post workout will boost insulin, give your body readily available aminos(so you dont break down any muscle tissue), and help restore post exercise gh levels.