Author Topic: ONCE IN KETOSIS  (Read 1654 times)

candidizzle

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ONCE IN KETOSIS
« on: November 10, 2007, 11:32:38 PM »
it is almost impossible to have any fat storage, as long as your protein stays below 40 grams portions no more often than every couple hours; thus your entire fat intak, no matter the calorie total, will either be used for energy, or urinated out; since lipids once converted into ketone bodies cannot be convereted back to storeable lipids...


so what im saying is that you could intake massive amounts of fat calories and see a flatline in bf%, because when converting fat into ketones for energy, you are rendering that fat "unstore-able"..



BUT, if every morning you were to do some cardio before eating...preferably with some yohimbe..and burnt off some fat stores; then you could actually see a slow decline in bf% even with a huge caloric surplus,

??


what do you guys think?


sort of thinking out loud here..

windsor88

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 11:58:36 PM »
Princess L posted this about protein

http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.org/site/pdf/JISSN-3-1-7-27-06.pdf

How big of a surplus in calories are you talking about? 

candidizzle

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2007, 12:18:30 AM »
yeah i read that link already.....

um, idk; how about a 1000 calorie surplus?

the choad

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2007, 12:34:50 AM »
yeah i read that link already.....

um, idk; how about a 1000 calorie surplus?

Very possible to have a large surplus on this diet..Don't know how large..However, you can def be sloppy when it comes to total calories consumed and get away with it easier than your standard diet

candidizzle

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2007, 09:08:46 AM »
Very possible to have a large surplus on this diet..Don't know how large..However, you can def be sloppy when it comes to total calories consumed and get away with it easier than your standard diet
lol yeah my dads cooking breakfast right now and weve got some pepperonie and cheese omeletes going with whole eggs and a pack of bacon on the skillet..=)

WhiteHulk4

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 06:43:35 AM »
It's definitely more difficult to store fat when in ketosis, but it's not impossible.  That's why you see all these obese people out there that justify the huge platefulls of bacon they eat at the breakfast buffett, because they lost 20 pounds the first week they were on the diet.  Yet, haven't lost anything else since!

If you over-feed yoursefl, you will store bodyfat.  Possibly the only way you wouldn't is if 100% of your calories were from fat.  If your body has tons of excess fuel in it's tank, it's going to figure out a way to store it!

But why even talk about this kind of thing?  If you're in ketosis, you're already sacrificing a lot to lose weight.  So you should stay in a caloric deficit to make the most of it!  Also, if you're doing a cyclical ketogenic diet with a weekly carb-up, it's not going to be nearly as effective if you didn't actually lose some considerable bodyfat during the low-carb portion of the diet...

candidizzle

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 08:40:36 AM »
whitehulk...    im just thinking aloud... looking for feedback.   

i got my answer by reading a few more books over the past couple of days.

for those who are interested, here it is=
 ketones CANNOT be stored as body fat, and will only be urinated if not used; BUT, even for a person deep in ketosis who has a literal carb intake of ZERO, the bod does not convert all ingested lipids into ketones. its a only a percentage of them. so intaking 1000 calories of excess bodyfat while in ketosis might produce 500 calories of freef loating ketones, and 500 calories of free floating fatty acids. the ketones cannot be stored, but the fatty acids CAN be. BUT, it is pretty difficult to have fatty acids get stored as body fat when you have zero blood sugar, zero insulin release, high camp levels and high levels of growth hormone, testosterone, igf-1, and catechomans all in your body. (all of which are the result of a high fat high protein zero carb diet).


so YES, you can store fat. but not alot of it, and it wont be a rapid storeage. most of the time, it will be less storeage than what your body removes from stores via lipolysis anyways.



alll of these things make a ketogenic diet superb for MUSCLE GROWTH, on top of fat loss. the key is the weekend carb-up..    the supersaturation of glycogen stores increases your muscle glycogen capacity up to 150% of what it would have been if you had been constantly replenishing glycogen throughout the week; meaning much larger muscle size via the pathway of raised levels of muscle glycogen...    and for fat loss, the carb-up keeps your body fresh in "fat burning" mode, and reverses all of the self defense survival mechanisms that were slowly shifting into place as a aresult of a weeklong calorie deficit.


 :)

WhiteHulk4

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 06:30:46 AM »
Which books have you been reading?

candidizzle

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 08:23:18 AM »
so far i have read the body opus by dan duchaine, the anabolic diet by d. pasquale, (the ketogenic diet, the ultimate diet 2.0, the rapid fat loss handbook)=all by lyle mcdonald, dr atkins new diet revolution, and steroid sized muscle through natural hormone programming by optimum nutrition.

i am currently trying to find a torrent for extreme muscle enhancement on the web...    and while i was searching i saw that you already have it, whitehulk (i saw you posting on dr. colkers thread on prosource)...   could you tell me what it says in regards to carb intake/ fat intake/ and the cyclical keto diet?

Arnold jr

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2007, 11:50:08 PM »
it is almost impossible to have any fat storage, as long as your protein stays below 40 grams portions no more often than every couple hours; thus your entire fat intak, no matter the calorie total, will either be used for energy, or urinated out; since lipids once converted into ketone bodies cannot be convereted back to storeable lipids...


so what im saying is that you could intake massive amounts of fat calories and see a flatline in bf%, because when converting fat into ketones for energy, you are rendering that fat "unstore-able"..



BUT, if every morning you were to do some cardio before eating...preferably with some yohimbe..and burnt off some fat stores; then you could actually see a slow decline in bf% even with a huge caloric surplus,

??


what do you guys think?


sort of thinking out loud here..
The claim "as long as your protein stays below 40 grams portions" why 40g, why not 30g or 50g...why did you pick 40g?

As for the "calorie total" claim...although it is hard to gain fat on a keto diet, it is not imposable, not at all...excessive calorie surplus is an excessive calorie surplus no matter how you slice it.

Even so, I am a fan and believer in the right types of keto diets...right types meaning, not the Atkins style...those types are inssane would looked at in terms of ones health as well as preserving muscle mass.

candidizzle

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2007, 09:59:38 AM »
The claim "as long as your protein stays below 40 grams portions" why 40g, why not 30g or 50g...why did you pick 40g?

As for the "calorie total" claim...although it is hard to gain fat on a keto diet, it is not imposable, not at all...excessive calorie surplus is an excessive calorie surplus no matter how you slice it.

Even so, I am a fan and believer in the right types of keto diets...right types meaning, not the Atkins style...those types are inssane would looked at in terms of ones health as well as preserving muscle mass.

well the atkins diet is actually just eating raw natural foods. his lifetime diet is much different than his induction diet, and his inuction diet is just unlimited foods like many people think. his lifetime diet is composed of natural things like veggies and meats and eggs and nuts.


but what type of keto diets do you advocate?

Arnold jr

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Re: ONCE IN KETOSIS
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2007, 01:09:38 PM »



but what type of keto diets do you advocate?
High protein, moderate fat from healthy sources only, i.e. fish oils, raw nuts, lean beef, etc. These are the types of fats that will help preserve muscle and maintain energy when dieting...other types of fats, not so much, plus they are hard on ones health in the long run IMO.