Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 465027 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2450 on: November 10, 2010, 12:01:21 PM »
Good to hear, maybe I'll pick up a second house next summer =)  On a serious note though, housing prices are still overinfalted, so hopefully we'll see a return to what they should be value at, or at least closer to it.

You want to laugh - i had ENDLESS arguments with realtors and mortgage brokers on this issue 2005-2009 that house was a major scame and vastly overpriced and they laughed at me. 

Here is the question I ask: 

"CAN THE AVERAGE SALARY AFFORD THE AVERAGE HOME?"



We are still GROSSLY overpriced real estate wise and in my mind have a LONG way to go downward.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2451 on: November 10, 2010, 12:21:36 PM »
The "Current Housing Recession [Will Eclipse] the Great Depression’s Real Estate Downturn
Washington's Blog/Zero Hedge ^ | November 10, 2010 | Washington's Blog



________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ______________________


Zillow's Stan Humphries said:

The length and depth of the current housing recession is rivaling the Great Depression’s real estate downturn, and, with encouraging signs fading, will easily eclipse it in the coming months.During the Great Depression, home prices fell 25.9 percent in five years. The U.S. housing market is now down around 25 percent from its peak in 2006.

As housing price expert Robert Shiller pointed out in September 2008:

Home price declines are already approaching those in the Great Depression, when they plunged 30% during the 1930s [i.e. over a 10-year period]. With prices already down almost 20%, it's not a stretch to think we might exceed that drop this time around. As I wrote in December 2008:

In the greatest financial crash of all time - the crash of the 1340s in Italy .... real estate prices fell by 50 percent by 1349 in Florence when boom became bust. How does that compare to 2001-2007? The price of Southern California homes is already down 41% [that was before the first-time homebuyer credit, Hamp and other governmental programs temporarily boosted prices]. Southern California hasn't fallen as fast as some other areas, and we're nowhere near the bottom of the market.

Moreover, the bubble was not confined to the U.S. There was a worldwide bubble in real estate.

Indeed, the Economist magazine wrote in 2005 that the worldwide boom in residential real estate prices in this decade was "the biggest bubble in history". The Economist noted that - at that time - the total value of residential property in developed countries rose by more than $30 trillion, to $70 trillion, over the past five years – an increase equal to the combined GDPs of those nations.

Housing bubbles are now bursting in China, France, Spain, Ireland, the United Kingdom, Eastern Europe, and many other regions.

And the bubble in commercial real estate is also bursting world-wide. See this. In addition, the percentage of Americans who owned houses during the 1930s was much lower than today, which means that a larger portion of the public is being hurt from falling home prices today as compared to the Great Depression.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2452 on: November 11, 2010, 08:41:19 AM »
monitor Oil & Coal as seasonality effect takes hold.



-NT



Just in time.    >:(  >:(

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2453 on: November 13, 2010, 02:42:31 PM »

Wow -- Check Out How Blatantly Our Government Misled Us With The October Jobs Numbers!
Henry Blodget | Nov. 13, 2010, 9:42 AM | 3,939 |  31



________________________ ________________________


And now, for my next trick, I will create "jobs".

Image: The Associated Press

See Also:

Those Jobs Numbers Were Much Worse Than They LookedThis Is The First Respectable Jobs Report In Years... And It Was Still Full Of ProblemsHere's What No One Told You About The Supposedly Great Jobs Report
 
Remember last Friday's payrolls numbers--the ones that blew away expectations about the number of jobs created and got everyone talking about recovery again?

Well, even at the time those payroll numbers were confusing, because the other part of the jobs report--the "household survey"--showed yet another crappy number.

But by pointing to the crappy household number and ignoring the payroll number, the bears seemed to be trying to make lemons out of lemonade.

But it turns out that there was a simple reason why the payroll numbers looked so good--a reason that had nothing to do with underlying strength of the jobs market.

What was that reason?

The government changed the "seasonal adjustment" it made to the payroll numbers--and, in so doing, boosted the number of "jobs" created in October by 100,000.Stephanie Pomboy of MacroMavens (via John Mauldin) explains:

" 'The seasonal bar which the payroll data must jump was (inexplicably and dramatically) lowered from prior Octobers.

" 'Thus, in October 2009, the BLS set the bar at 870,000 jobs, similar to the 840,000 it anticipated in October 2008. This year, by contrast, it lowered the bar to 768,000. Mumbo, jumbo, payrolls presented "an upside surprise" of 100,000.'

Alan Abelson of Barrons (again via John Mauldin) adds the following:

"According to John Williams at Shadow Government Statistics, the BLS' fiddling with the figures via what he calls 'seasonal-factor games' actually created 200,000 phantom jobs last month. John cites such finagling as the reason his prediction of an October decline and a rise in the jobless rate was wrong. It also explains why seasonally adjusted payrolls were revised upward by 110,000 in September, including 56,000 in August."

In other words, it wasn't that there were a surprising number of jobs created in October. It was that the government changed its "seasonal adjustment" assumption in a way that made it look as though there were a surprising number of jobs created in October.

Now, seasonal adjustment is an art not a science. And maybe the new seasonal adjustment is more defensible than the old one. But if our government is going to publish a number like this that represents such a major "surprise," we would expect it to at least be upfront about the reasons for the surprise. And in this case those reasons had NOTHING to do with the jobs market, and EVERYTHING to do with the seasonal adustment assumption.

Tags: Economy, Jobs, Employment, Unemployment | Get Alerts for these topics »

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wow-check-out-how-blatantly-our-government-misled-us-with-the-october-jobs-numbers-2010-11#ixzz15Ckb0XFn

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2454 on: November 15, 2010, 02:46:01 PM »
Stranger and stranger grows the EU's bailout fund
By Jeremy Warner



Anyone wanting to know just how daft and self defeating the EU’s latest utterences on the Permanent Crisis Resolution Mechanism (the structure through which sovereign bailouts would be conducted) really are, should take a look at the note just published by Marco Annunziata, chief economist at UniCredit Group. I’ve got no link for this, so I’ll quote his digest in full:

    “The Eurozone’s credibility deficit is getting larger by the day. The most recent antics on the Sovereign Debt Restructuring Mechanism are a breath-taking mixture of suicidal irresponsibility and farcical incoherence, and risk inflicting lasting damage to the recovery prospects of the most troubled peripheral countries and to the credibility of the eurozone’s economic governance framework.

    “Germany had seemed determined to have agreement on a SDRM. But now from Soul, EU finance ministers tell us that that any SDRM would only apply to new debt issued after the mechanism has been approved and put in place, that is 2013 at the earliest. Debt currently outstanding, and any debt issued over at least the next two years, would therefore be safe. But this commitment is time-inconsistent, and therefore not fully credible. If by 2013 countries like Greece, Ireland and Portugal are still in a shaky position, with weak fiscal accounts and weak growth, any new debt issued with SDRM clauses will carry exorbitant yields, inconsistent with debt sustainability.

    “The EU would then have to choose between a full-fledged, open-ended bailout, and reneging on the promise that existing debt would not be restructured. Will German voters then accept higher taxes to save their profligate neighbors? Perhaps, but we can hardly take it for granted. The apparent time inconsistency of the Seoul promise implies that we might get the worst of both worlds: spreads will not come in significantly, as investors will doubt that existing debt is really safe, while high-debt countries will still hope that they will be helped and not left to the cruel mercy of the markets. We will get instability and bailouts rather than discipline.”

Germany thought it was making matters better by stressing that “haircuts” for private bondholders would apply only after the mechanism comes into force in 2013 and wouldn’t apply to any outstanding debt. This is what European finance ministers had to say about it all in a statement issued from the G20 in Seoul earlier today:

    “At its meeting on the 29 Oct 2010 the European Council discussed the future arrangements for ensuring economic and financial stability in the European Union.

    “Whatever the debate within the euro area about the future permanent crisis resolution mechanism and the potential private sector involvement in that mechanism we are clear that this does not apply to any outstanding debt and any programme under current instruments.

    ‘Any new mechanism would only come into effect after mid-2013 with no impact whatsoever on the current arrangements.

    “The EFSF is already established and it’s activation does not require private sector involvement. We note that the role of the private sector in the future mechanism could include a range of different possibilities such as a voluntary commitment of institutional investors to maintain exposures, a commitment of private lenders to roll over existing debts or the inclusion of collective action clauses on future bond emissions of euro area member states”.

But as Mr Annunziata points out, unless countries such as Ireland, Greece, and Portugal, have by then got their finances back in order, which doesn’t seem likely, the yields demanded on new debt will be so high as to require a restructuring of existing debt anyway. Either that, or the rest of the eurozone would have to give an open ended guarantee.

This crisis is set to run and run.

P.S.  Some understandable confusion of terminology is setting in here. The European Financial Stability Fund (EFSF) mentioned by the finance ministers is the existing €750bn fund set up last May to help countries with difficulty repaying their debts.  The Permanent Crisis Resolution Mechanism (PCRM) is what they propose should replace it in 2013. I’m assuming that Mr Annunziata’s  Sovereign Debt Restructuring Mechanism is the same thing. All clear now?

w

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2455 on: November 15, 2010, 04:12:49 PM »
Keep your eyes on the foreclosure fraud hearings taking place tomorrow.

w

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2456 on: November 18, 2010, 08:13:23 AM »

24KT

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2457 on: November 18, 2010, 03:59:45 PM »
Neuro,

What do you think of Schiff's latest bond fund?
w

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2458 on: November 19, 2010, 07:11:00 AM »
haven't any idea. too busy making money.

besides, schiff's whining depresses me.



-NT
:D  ;)
!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2459 on: November 19, 2010, 07:17:24 AM »
:D  ;)

Yeah - show me a video side by side with your boy krugman to peter and lets see ho is more accurate. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2460 on: November 19, 2010, 07:40:53 AM »
Ask Neuro not me, ------ He is the one who stated that Schiff is an annoying whiner.

He did not say Schiff is not accurate only that he does not like his tone.  


Benny B

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2461 on: November 19, 2010, 07:45:16 AM »
He did not say Schiff is not accurate only that he does not like his tone.  


I didn't say he was not accurate in my post either.  ??? You are not making sense, PEA.
!

225for70

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2462 on: November 19, 2010, 09:15:02 AM »
correct 33386. i tend to agree with schiff more than i disagree.

utilizing my market system requires blocking out all pundits whether i agree or disagree with their position. i can not remember the last time i watched CNBC or any other financial channel.

to accumulate wealth i only trust one person, and that person is me.



-NT

  

I thought you were coming to twitter soon?


Came you offer some insights into your system...Do you use Fundamental or technical analysis etc..?

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2463 on: November 22, 2010, 05:29:43 PM »
my system combines technical analysis with real life experience.

if i decide to offer my insight via another platform, i will structure it in a teaching format.




-NT

please do.

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2464 on: November 24, 2010, 07:35:49 PM »
Why was my commentary about the US Dollars bounce as a result of the recent Korean conflict deleted?

The US Dollar did get a bounce upon this news, as did gold. Do you not think this effects the dow?
w

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2465 on: November 26, 2010, 07:44:34 PM »
Are We In For Another Round Of Stagflation?
IBD Editorials ^ | November 26, 2010 | ALVARO VARGAS LLOSA




We are entering an era of high inflation, to judge by the massive growth of the money supply in the United States, Europe and Asia, and the stubbornness of central bankers who insist that high unemployment demands the creation of even more money.

The last time the world went through a similar period was the 1970s. The term that defined the era was "stagflation."

In a nutshell, stagflation back then was the result of a recession partly caused by stratospheric oil prices followed by the decision to print tons of money in the hope of inflating the economy out of unemployment.

In other words, stagnation was not so much because of oil prices; rather, it was the result of the monetary response to the stagnant environment that the high energy costs had helped create.

Inflation simply added a new ill to an already grave situation.

What is happening today is in essence not all that different.

The response to high unemployment caused by the recession has been a massive increase of the money supply.


(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24KT

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2466 on: November 27, 2010, 03:31:44 AM »
Are We In For Another Round Of Stagflation?
IBD Editorials ^ | November 26, 2010 | ALVARO VARGAS LLOSA




We are entering an era of high inflation, to judge by the massive growth of the money supply in the United States, Europe and Asia, and the stubbornness of central bankers who insist that high unemployment demands the creation of even more money.

The last time the world went through a similar period was the 1970s. The term that defined the era was "stagflation."

In a nutshell, stagflation back then was the result of a recession partly caused by stratospheric oil prices followed by the decision to print tons of money in the hope of inflating the economy out of unemployment.

In other words, stagnation was not so much because of oil prices; rather, it was the result of the monetary response to the stagnant environment that the high energy costs had helped create.

Inflation simply added a new ill to an already grave situation.

What is happening today is in essence not all that different.

The response to high unemployment caused by the recession has been a massive increase of the money supply.


(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


QFT!!!

Those of us who were around then, ...try to remember everything that happened during that period,
..and if you weren't around, ...grab a history book and learn. I also keenly remember what happened to GOLD.
It was a meteoric rise from $35 oz to over $800 oz, ...and I believe it's going to happen again.
w

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2467 on: December 02, 2010, 06:13:58 AM »
Weekly jobless claims climb 26,000 to 436,000 (WORSE THAN EXPECTED)
market watch ^ | 12/2/10




The number of workers who filed new claims for unemployment benefits rose 26,000 last week to 436,000, the U.S. Labor Department reported Thursday. Economists polled by MarketWatch had expected claims to rise to a seasonally adjusted 429,000 in the holiday-shortened week of Nov. 27.


(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2468 on: December 02, 2010, 06:55:35 AM »
Updated: Thu., Dec. 2, 2010, 8:35 AM 
The road to a US insolvency crisis
By SCOTT S. POWELL

Last Updated: 8:35 AM, December 2, 2010

Posted: 11:32 PM, December 1, 2010


Today's auction of 10- and 30-year US Treasury notes and bonds won't tell us as much about the US economy as auctions used to -- because the Federal Reserve has started buying up the notes as part of Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke's "quantitative easing" effort.

Until recently, a plentitude of bidders for long-term US government debt was a sign the US economy was strong. But Bernanke is buying that debt in what he says is an effort to make the economy stronger.

This has a lot of people nervous -- and the news that the Fed may spend up to $800 billion on this, rather than the $600 billion figure initially given, doesn't help.

Even if the purpose is to stimulate the economy, increase stock prices and lower interest rates, the effect of Bernanke's policy may be monetizing the nation's growing debt -- printing new money to finance deficit spending.

The Federal Reserve's balance sheet -- the bonds and other instruments it has bought up -- has already tripled over the last two years, to some $2.25 trillion, yet Bernanke seems unruffled. He also downplays the evidence that the Fed's easy lending in 2003-04 (12 months in which the central bank loaned at just 1 percent to major financial institutions) helped inflate the housing bubble and thus create the 2008 meltdown.

Now, after holding that rate to nearly 0 percent for two years, Bernanke still shows no fear of inflation. Instead, he speaks of the threat of deflation.

Yet commodity and currency prices, reliable indicators of inflation, are signaling trouble ahead.

Oil prices are approaching $90 a barrel, while precious metals keep hitting new highs. A broad basket of commodities that includes copper, rubber, wheat, oats, pork, coffee, sugar and cotton -- all of which are up over 50 percent in the last 12 months -- is also sounding the inflation alarm.

How can it be otherwise? When manufacturers' costs rise (as we're already seeing in a host of indicators), inflation of consumer prices can't be far behind. And how can prices not rise when the US imports more than it exports while Washington pushes the dollar lower against foreign currencies?

Inflation and devaluation must eventually drive interest rates higher -- all bad news for the American consumer. But if Bernanke's policy is widely seen as debt monetization and currency printing, the real danger is a US insolvency crisis that could destroy the dollar and bring global financial chaos.

Here's how it could unfold.

The Treasury now pays a blended cost of about 2.45 percent a year for some $9.14 trillion in publicly held US debt, the lowest rate in more than half a century. But inflation and devaluation will inevitably lead investors to demand a higher return.

The burden is manageable if the rate drifts back up to, say, 5 percent (double the current cost and close to the historic average). But a crisis in confidence would cause an immediate spike up in bond yields and interest rates.

We're edging closer to the two conditions that could precipitate that crisis. One trigger would be the Fed balance sheet having grown too large for orderly liquidation except at fire-sale prices; the other would be disorderly ("failed") US Treasury auctions, wherein bidders step away because they see the risks as outweighing the return.

Such a crisis would mean the cost of servicing federal debt would skyrocket -- triggering a downward-spiraling liquidity crisis ending with the US government unable to finance its obligations.

And while Germany and the European Union were able to rescue Greece and Ireland (so far), there's no one to bail out the United States.

What to do? In January, the new Congress must focus on even more than the tough nut of real deficit, debt and spending reductions. We need more Fed transparency -- such as a public audit of its balance sheet, with stress tests to see the impact of sharply higher interest rates.

The news may be ugly -- but hard facts are what's needed to win public support for the sacrifices necessary to prevent the country from reaching a tipping point where mounting debt triggers an insolvency crisis.

Scott S. Powell, a visiting fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution, is a managing partner at RemingtonRand Corp. and Alpha Quest.


GigantorX

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2469 on: December 13, 2010, 06:49:46 AM »
holiday-bonus season is upon us, so anticipate markets heading higher (on low volume)



-NT



When has it not been on low volume? How many POMO's this week?

GigantorX

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2470 on: December 13, 2010, 07:44:04 AM »
December 13, 2010

Wall Street Set For Best Two Years Ever, Thanks To Bailout


Two agonizing years for the U.S. economy have been some of the best years on record for Wall Street.

After first receiving billions in taxpayer aid, and now ultracheap funding from the Federal Reserve, Wall Street banks are on track to wrap up two of their best years ever.

Even if the current quarter only matches the third in revenue, this year will be the second best ever for Wall Street, capping a two-year winning streak fueled by government dollars, Bloomberg reports. With more than $100 billion in their pockets from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which offered them hundreds of billions more, the five biggest investment banks -- Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Bank of America, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley -- have seen their revenue this year climb to $93.7 billion.


Revenue on which side of the business? I'm guessing the "investment/trading" side. Nothing better than cashing in on a rigged market.

loco

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2471 on: December 16, 2010, 08:57:33 AM »
Looks to me like 2010 has been a great year for the stock market!

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2472 on: December 16, 2010, 10:15:49 AM »
Looks to me like 2010 has been a great year for the stock market!

You have the Federal Reserve and the banking cartels to thank for that, not market fundamentals or an improving economy. But as Neuro said, you can still make money on the ponzi scheme just don't be left on the boat when it sinks. The banks and the Fed love that play, get all the sheep in through cheap money and propaganda and than when it is swollen with dumb money....they come in and shear it off taking everything and leaving those caught in it with nothing.

I'm sure those that listen to Cramer really thought they were getting a hot stock tip when he fully backed Best Buy the other day.....doh!

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2473 on: December 16, 2010, 10:22:58 AM »
You have the Federal Reserve and the banking cartels to thank for that, not market fundamentals or an improving economy. But as Neuro said, you can still make money on the ponzi scheme just don't be left on the boat when it sinks. The banks and the Fed love that play, get all the sheep in through cheap money and propaganda and than when it is swollen with dumb money....they come in and shear it off taking everything and leaving those caught in it with nothing.

I'm sure those that listen to Cramer really thought they were getting a hot stock tip when he fully backed Best Buy the other day.....doh!

What about those who did not panic and did not touch their stock investments, and some even bought more stocks, between 2007 and now?  They saw their investments go way down at first, but in the end it paid off for them.  They were not left with nothing when "the boat sunk" in 2007-2008.  It seems if you are in it for the long run and not in it for a quick buck, then you'll be okay.

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2474 on: December 17, 2010, 05:15:45 PM »
i disagree. if you invested in Tech stocks (Nasdaq) in 1999 you're still down -50% 12 yrs later. (dollar depreciation excluded)

S&P returns the last 10 yrs are negative -1%. (depreciation excluded)

'buying and holding' is not congruent with building real wealth.

-NT

...unless of course you're doing it with gold & silver imho.
w