Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 465368 times)

Alex23

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2475 on: December 27, 2010, 09:41:50 AM »
...unless of course you're doing it with gold & silver imho.

if you're a pirate..

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2476 on: December 27, 2010, 09:42:45 AM »
bump for what bush did to cause the financial collapse  ;)

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2477 on: December 27, 2010, 10:10:46 AM »
Bailed Out Banks Teeter Towards Collapse
 
  
AP December 27, 2010
Nearly 100 banks previously rescued by the federal government are again poised to fail, despite billions of dollars of support from the American Treasury.

The number of banks on the brink of collapse rose from 86 to 98 during the summer months, according to analysis of federal data from the Wall Street Journal. The banks in question have received $4.2 billion dollars in aid through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP).

The latest sign of distress in the financial system suggests the bailout may have simply been a stopgap solution for a sector still contending with the aftershocks of the greatest banking crisis in 80 years.

The continued weakness of some banks now threatens to impede a tentative economic recovery, say experts. With many banks still troubled, lending remains tight, depriving businesses of capital to expand and hire. With expansion and hiring rare, the economy remains weak, depriving the banks of healthy customers--in short, a feedback loop of trouble.

The Wall Street Journal defined "troubled banks" as those with less than 6 percent of their primary assets both reliable and liquid.



Like I have said many times - TARP was a mistake in how they did it.   Shoveling money with no strings attached and failng to break up these TBTF banks ws a huge mistake.   

Danny

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2478 on: December 27, 2010, 11:04:26 AM »
Like I have said many times - TARP was a mistake in how they did it.   Shoveling money with no strings attached and failng to break up these TBTF banks ws a huge mistake.   

I thought you were all for free market, and less gov interference....hhhmmmm maybe my mind is playing tricks on me. ;)
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2479 on: December 27, 2010, 11:06:46 AM »
I thought you were all for free market, and less gov interference....hhhmmmm maybe my mind is playing tricks on me. ;)

I have always said I wanted them to collapse and go bankrupt you dolt.   I guess you missed that.    And guess who started this whole mess?     BJ Clinton.   

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2480 on: December 28, 2010, 06:26:31 AM »
bump for what bush did to cause the financial collapse  ;)

A recipe for financial disaster: 2002

1) George W Bush turned Government surpluses into record deficits by outspending every President from George Washington to Bill Clinton COMBINED in 8yrs.

2) Devalued US dollar 60% in 8 yrs.

3) Started multiple unfunded Wars.

4) Lowered taxes during Wartime. (first time in history)

5) Increased unfunded entitlement programs. (medicare drug program etc.)

6) Created a Ponzi Scheme/Bubble in Housing Market (Holy Grail) by pushing for increased Minority home ownership with no money down loans, bad credit loans, teaser rates, interest only loans, ARMS etc.

2008 End result: Game over. George Bush's 'house of cards' collapses.











-NT

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2481 on: December 28, 2010, 12:37:44 PM »
Roubini: 'Housing Prices Can Only Move Down'
Published: Tuesday, 28 Dec 2010 | 12:27 PM ET Text Size By: Ash Bennington
NetNet Writer, Special to CNBC.com


According to economist Nouriel Roubini, the housing market is in a double dip.

 
Photo: Oliver Quillia for CNBC
Nouriel Roubini
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

And negative Case-Shiller Home Price numbers out today only confirm that unpleasant truth.

"It's pretty clear the housing market has already double dipped," says Roubini. "And the rate of decline is stronger than in previous months," he said of the new housing data.

Aside from below trend economic growth, there are two factors specific to the housing market that are putting downward pressure on home prices.

The first factor is the expiration of federal home buyer tax credits for first time home buyers.

"If you look at the data, Case Shiller has been falling every month since the tax credit expired in May. Everyone who wanted to buy a home did so by April," Roubini said.

"That tax credit stole demand from the future and its expiration led to another 30% fall in home sales, pushing Case & Shiller lower for the last few months," Roubini wrote in a text message earlier this morning.

The second factor putting downward pressure on home prices is the ongoing chaos with mortgage documentation, and the consequent suspension by banks of mortgage foreclosure proceedings—which has actually worsened the underlying problems in the housing market.

"There has been an effective moratorium on foreclosure," said Roubini.

And the beginning of the end of that moratorium means more housing supply is about to become available on the market.

"The shadow inventory of not-yet-foreclosed homes—due to the moratorium—will surge in the next year," Roubini says.

Both factors, taken in concert, set up a scenario where market fundamentals put downward pressure on prices: "Supply will increase, demand will drop," Roubini said.

The Case Shiller Composite-20 Index, which represents the broadest measure of U.S. home prices in the survey, fell 1 percent on an adjusted basis during the September/October time period, based on data release earlier today.

All 20 Metropolitan Statistical Areas included in the survey showed declines—reflecting a broad based, non-regional erosion of prices in the housing sector.

But Roubini isn't yet predicting a double dip recession for the broader economy.

"The rest of the economy is recovering. Most of the numbers are consistent with a growth rate of 2.7 percent," Roubini said.

But that 2.7 percent growth is still below trend. "So unemployment will likely remain above 9 percent," according to Roubini's analysis.

Roubini adds that there are other ominous economic signs on the horizon including: "The eurozone shock, long-term structural deficits, and state and local governments [operating near] bankruptcy."

And, if homeowners begin walking away from their properties en masse, those negative trends might well pick up steam:

"12 million households are already in negative equity and 8 million more have an LTV btw 95 and 100%. Thus even a 5% fall in home price will push an extra 8 million in negative equity with risk of millions walking away from their home—i.e. jingle mail," Roubini wrote me in a text message earlier today.

It's certainly a sobering scenario to contemplate as we head into the New Year.

________________________ ________________________ _____

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2482 on: December 28, 2010, 04:13:53 PM »

LMFAO the only one that has any legitimacy is number 6 and who pushed that nt?

nice try though... ;)

just as I thought the same idiotic talking points that msnbc and the left pushed for years...sad nobody has shown you the errors in your way yet.

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2483 on: December 29, 2010, 01:23:04 AM »

if you're a pirate..


Haven't you heard? ...Gold is not just for pirates anymore.  ;)

w

24KT

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2484 on: December 29, 2010, 01:25:15 AM »
A recipe for financial disaster: 2002

1) George W Bush turned Government surpluses into record deficits by outspending every President from George Washington to Bill Clinton COMBINED in 8yrs.

2) Devalued US dollar 60% in 8 yrs.

3) Started multiple unfunded Wars.

4) Lowered taxes during Wartime. (first time in history)

5) Increased unfunded entitlement programs. (medicare drug program etc.)

6) Created a Ponzi Scheme/Bubble in Housing Market (Holy Grail) by pushing for increased Minority home ownership with no money down loans, bad credit loans, teaser rates, interest only loans, ARMS etc.

2008 End result: Game over. George Bush's 'house of cards' collapses.











Financial ownage lesson over.  ;)



-NT


QFT!!!

I was going to reply to Tony, ...but I see you've got it more than covered.
w

GigantorX

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2485 on: December 29, 2010, 06:27:36 AM »
A recipe for financial disaster: 2002

1) George W Bush turned Government surpluses into record deficits by outspending every President from George Washington to Bill Clinton COMBINED in 8yrs.

2) Devalued US dollar 60% in 8 yrs.

3) Started multiple unfunded Wars.

4) Lowered taxes during Wartime. (first time in history)

5) Increased unfunded entitlement programs. (medicare drug program etc.)

6) Created a Ponzi Scheme/Bubble in Housing Market (Holy Grail) by pushing for increased Minority home ownership with no money down loans, bad credit loans, teaser rates, interest only loans, ARMS etc.

2008 End result: Game over. George Bush's 'house of cards' collapses.











Financial ownage lesson over.  ;)



-NT

1.) Huge deficits were true but can we stop with the whole "record surplus" meme? We've been through this before, several times, there never was an actual surplus nor was there ever an actual "balanced budget". Only overly rosy projections and borrowing out of the S.S. "trust fund" and counting it as income.

2-5) I pretty much agree with.

6.) Can't be blamed all on Bush. The bubble economy started in the 90's, repeal of what was left of Glass-Steagal was in 99' (Republican Congress/Clinton Admin.) The GSE's had been around for a while before, totally distorted the mortgage market and were a tool of the govt to influence society into housing ownership, that was an actual stated goal of Bill Clinton and of course, everyones favorite, The Community Reinvestment Act. Add lax oversight, The Federal Reserve manipulation of interest rates, cheap money, The Federal Reserves abdication of it's charge of regulating the banks and on and on. We have a bubble economy funded and blown by the Fed, Govt. interference, Central Planning and cheap money. It has to be this way because we have no economic backbone anymore. It was Stock Bubble, Dot.com bubble, Housing Bubble, and now we will have a debt bubble and another stock bubble. And on and on.


I agree with NT more than I disagree most of the time, but you can't place this whole thing on the feet of a single president. That's more than a bit narrow minded and disingenuous

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2486 on: December 29, 2010, 08:03:39 AM »

QFT!!!

I was going to reply to Tony, ...but I see you've got it more than covered.
LMFAO please reply to my reply to him then

the only one that has any legitimacy is number 6 and who pushed that jagson?


24KT

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2487 on: December 29, 2010, 09:13:40 AM »
LMFAO please reply to my reply to him then

the only one that has any legitimacy is number 6 and who pushed that jagson?



I found your reply, despite it's brevity, was not even worth the time it took to read.
That would have remained unsaid, ...except, you did ask for my commentary on it.
w

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2488 on: December 29, 2010, 09:20:13 AM »
I found your reply, despite it's brevity, was not even worth the time it took to read.
That would have remained unsaid, ...except, you did ask for my commentary on it.
sounds about right, i expect the same side step from NT as well  ::)

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2489 on: December 29, 2010, 09:30:15 AM »
1.) Huge deficits were true but can we stop with the whole "record surplus" meme? We've been through this before, several times, there never was an actual surplus nor was there ever an actual "balanced budget". Only overly rosy projections and borrowing out of the S.S. "trust fund" and counting it as income.

2-5) I pretty much agree with.

6.) Can't be blamed all on Bush. The bubble economy started in the 90's, repeal of what was left of Glass-Steagal was in 99' (Republican Congress/Clinton Admin.) The GSE's had been around for a while before, totally distorted the mortgage market and were a tool of the govt to influence society into housing ownership, that was an actual stated goal of Bill Clinton and of course, everyones favorite, The Community Reinvestment Act. Add lax oversight, The Federal Reserve manipulation of interest rates, cheap money, The Federal Reserves abdication of it's charge of regulating the banks and on and on. We have a bubble economy funded and blown by the Fed, Govt. interference, Central Planning and cheap money. It has to be this way because we have no economic backbone anymore. It was Stock Bubble, Dot.com bubble, Housing Bubble, and now we will have a debt bubble and another stock bubble. And on and on.


I agree with NT more than I disagree most of the time, but you can't place this whole thing on the feet of a single president. That's more than a bit narrow minded and disingenuous

Gigantor, your points are well taken, however, I cannot help but to break it down to this simple analogy.

The US economy may have chosen to go swimming 5 minutes after eating, ...and as a result, it was quite conceivable she could have developed cramps, and gotten into trouble, ...but, we'll never know because GWB came along and forcibly held her head underwater til she drowned. What's left is a lifeless shell in Walter Reed, ...subject to ObamaCare. The prognosis is not good.
w

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2490 on: December 29, 2010, 09:33:04 AM »
Gigantor, your points are well taken, however, I cannot help but to break it down to this simple analogy.

The US economy may have chosen to go swimming 5 minutes after eating, ...and as a result, it was quite conceivable she could have developed cramps, and gotten into trouble, ...but, we'll never know because GWB came along and forcibly held her head underwater til she drowned. What's left is a lifeless shell in Walter Reed, ...subject to ObamaCare. The prognosis is not good.
bush spending didnt cause the financial collapse

bush starting wars didnt cause the FINANCIAL COLLAPSE

the housing crisis as correctly stated by gigantor with glass steagal had a hand in the financial collapse, who signed that?

so again what did BUSH do to cause this? specifically?

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2491 on: December 29, 2010, 09:39:26 AM »
Bush can be blamed for letting the bubble grow to obscene levels and not making an issue of it in 2005-2006 when it was obvious to anyone with a clue that housing was getting at dangerous levels.

He did not cause it or put into motion the forces that led to it - but he happily let it grow because the govt was making tns of money off this scheme, and so did the state govts. 

I also blame him for a weak dollar policy at the FED and putting the idea of TBTF in place. 

I blame him for 8 years of unrestrained illegal immigration as well as buying into a lot of other crap. 

I also blame him for not pursuing a far more aggressive domestic drilling policy and not kneecapping the EPA once and for all. 


I am not a Bush fan at all.   I see him on the TV and want to slap the shit out f him.   


   

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2492 on: December 29, 2010, 09:42:17 AM »
Bush can be blamed for letting the bubble grow to obscene levels and not making an issue of it in 2005-2006 when it was obvious to anyone with a clue that housing was getting at dangerous levels.

He did not cause it or put into motion the forces that led to it - but he happily let it grow because the govt was making tns of money off this scheme, and so did the state govts. 
Ill agree with that

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2493 on: December 29, 2010, 09:47:41 AM »

6) Created a Ponzi Scheme/Bubble in Housing Market (Holy Grail) by pushing for increased Minority home ownership with no money down loans, bad credit loans, teaser rates, interest only loans, ARMS etc.

Minority home ownership had almost nothing to do with the housing bubble and certainly was not a catalyst or cause

You can thank Lehman Brothers introduction of Alt-A products and AIG credit default swaps and then in the end there were investment funds who were creating CDO's specifically so that could fail (Magnetar is the prime example but also others)

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2494 on: December 29, 2010, 09:49:27 AM »
Ill agree with that

The local govts loved the housing bubble too.   when they kept reassessing homes upwards for taxes purposes they became flush with cash and exanded their payrolls to obscene levels.  

Now that the market has crashed and will not recover for decades IMHO, these localities andstates are FUCKED since they refuse to cut spending, and a lot of teir revenue is derived from property taxes.    

Problem is that many people are tapped out now ad grieving their taxes and getting certs to where the taxes are lowered.  Sure the states drive up the mill rate, but it wont matter because now there are less sales and transactions, so the state wont get the money anyway.  

Blowing up a housing bubble on cheap credit was such a reckless thing to do we will not realy be freed from this mess for decades to come.   I'm just glad I never bought a house during that perod since I knewit was totally fucked.  All my genius friends who were realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, etc told me I was a fool for not buying a house then, look who is laughing now.        

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2495 on: December 29, 2010, 09:50:38 AM »
Minority home ownership had almost nothing to do with the housing bubble and certainly was not a catalyst or cause

You can thank Lehman Brothers introduction of Alt-A products and AIG credit default swaps and then in the end there were investment funds who were creating CDO's specifically so that could fail (Magnetar is the prime example but also others)

Lehman going down really fucked us up in NYC with regard to commercial properties and construction.   

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2496 on: December 29, 2010, 09:55:17 AM »
Minority home ownership had almost nothing to do with the housing bubble and certainly was not a catalyst or cause

You can thank Lehman Brothers introduction of Alt-A products and AIG credit default swaps and then in the end there were investment funds who were creating CDO's specifically so that could fail (Magnetar is the prime example but also others)
I wouldnt say it had almost nothing to do with it but I agree the CDO's had a bigger part in it, buddy of mine did his thesis on the financial crisis, CDO's and ratings...the companies would go to the rating company who was giving better ratings on their CDO's who they pay to rate them. The other rating companies lost money and started rating higher so they could increase profit and so on and so forth  :-\

to me the whole idea of CDO's is retarded, anybody who thinks that placing a bunch of debt that has risk to the same factors and pretty much says that well they cant all fail is diversifying is a moron.

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2497 on: December 29, 2010, 09:57:57 AM »
The other problem was the securitization and bundling of loans and not forcing those who wrote the loans to sit with them for a period of time.  This encouraged rampant fraud and reckless behavior by everyone involved.   

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2498 on: December 29, 2010, 09:59:12 AM »
read something about ML a little while back about how they had to create a division within themselves in order to sale their CDO's to themselves b/c nobody else would buy them  ::)

the buyers ended up making millions of dollars b/c they were paid to buy the CDO's

really???

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40795080/ns/business/

things that really make you shake your head...

tonymctones

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Re: Dow Crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated--SEE FIRST POST**)
« Reply #2499 on: December 29, 2010, 10:01:03 AM »
The other problem was the securitization and bundling of loans and not forcing those who wrote the loans to sit with them for a period of time.  This encouraged rampant fraud and reckless behavior by everyone involved.   
yup that link i just posted had a quote in it from a ML employee that they said was their motto...

"were not in the holding business, were in the moving business" in regards to the CDO's  ::)