"Things are getting better in Iraq!"

[Decker]

I agree.

That insulates you from criticism, doesn't it Beach Bum?

Why listen to any criticism when it is really just blind hatred?

That's weak and beneath you.

You're more than that.

[militarymuscle69]

The word is spelled "credibility"...maybe now you get 240's joke.

Again, you attack me instead of the report.  I'll give you a gift.  Here's a starting point: http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2006/burnham_iraq_2006.html

As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2006/16oct06/16iraq.html

I'll tell you what I fully expect from you: nothing...except for another attack my own "credability" (sic).

Just for the record, when the hell have you ever given creedence to anything from the UN? 

So 80,000 dead is ok with you? 

Tell me why we invaded Iraq.  Was it a reasonable response to the attacks of 9/11?

I believe the anti american UN would report higher numbers if they could....

As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions,

So you base your beliefs on someone's expectations....they can't link those death to actual combat though, or to anything related to the war. I have read the reports before and they count all deaths regardless of the cause.

I don't give a fuck about spelling

Does 240 have yet another alia on here?

I don't care about the 80K...can you show me how many of those were caused by US military action...ie taken out by US bombs, shot by service members etc...don't show me the deaths caused by car bombs where Iraqis are blowing up there own people...

The invasion isn't inresponse to 9/11..it ie pre-emptive to remove saddam before he tried somethng similiar...and oil security...you know me..the best defense is a good offense

[Decker]

I believe the anti american UN would report higher numbers if they could....

As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions,

So you base your beliefs on someone's expectations....they can't link those death to actual combat though, or to anything related to the war. I have read the reports before and they count all deaths regardless of the cause.

I don't give a fuck about spelling

Does 240 have yet another alia on here?

I don't care about the 80K...can you show me how many of those were caused by US military action...ie taken out by US bombs, shot by service members etc...don't show me the deaths caused by car bombs where Iraqis are blowing up there own people...

The invasion isn't inresponse to 9/11..it ie pre-emptive to remove saddam before he tried somethng similiar...and oil security...you know me..the best defense is a good offense

I base my beliefs on my understanding of the law--domestic and international.  The controversy over the Johns Hopkins report issued from its critics not reading the report or understanding its conclusions.  I'm glad you took the time to look at it.

But for the US led invasion, those 80,000 people would likely still be alive.   The mortality statistics for car bombs in pre-invasion Iraq just don't exist.  http://www.marxmail.org/mortality-in-iraq.pdf

Car bombings are likely retaliatory to the US attack.

If the US doesn't invade, there is no 80,000 dead.

[militarymuscle69]

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Documented civilian deaths by VIOLENCE

77,213 – 84,128


Human Rights Watch has estimated Saddam Hussein's regime killed 250,000 to 290,000 people over 20 years.

http://digg.com/politics/America_has_now_killed_more_Iraqi_civilians_than_Saddam

Saddam averaged 14,500 deaths per year...just by his hands alone, so in the nearly 5 years of war he would have killed 72,500. Are you going to tell me that another 1500 per year weren't dying already in the pre war era due to violence in the country? Hell I have heard stories of saddams kids killing half that many......

[Decker]

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Documented civilian deaths by VIOLENCE

77,213 – 84,128


Human Rights Watch has estimated Saddam Hussein's regime killed 250,000 to 290,000 people over 20 years.

http://digg.com/politics/America_has_now_killed_more_Iraqi_civilians_than_Saddam

Saddam averaged 14,500 deaths per year...just by his hands alone, so in the nearly 5 years of war he would have killed 72,500. Are you going to tell me that another 1500 per year weren't dying already in the pre war era due to violence in the country? Hell I have heard stories of saddams kids killing half that many......

Yes, he killed those people with full US support.  Tacit or otherwise.  He was our guy in the Iran/Iraq war.

And how does Hussein's murder's absolve the US of responsiblity for the invasion's killings?

It doesn't.

Or are you saying, those poor bastards would have died anyways so no harm, no foul?

[militarymuscle69]

Yes, he killed those people with full US support.  Tacit or otherwise.  He was our guy in the Iran/Iraq war.

And how does Hussein's murder's absolve the US of responsiblity for the invasion's killings?

It doesn't.

Or are you saying, those poor bastards would have died anyways so no harm, no foul?

I'm saying that thousands had to die for our country to become the nation it did during the revolution, Iraq has to make the same sacrifices to have what we have. I don't feel bad about most of those deaths..of course there are always stories that get me but not many..

and yes, the number would have been the same with us there or not.

Oh and so his using chemical weapond on the kurds was backed by the US???

[headhuntersix]

Not many....anyway 911 and the Invasion had nothing to do with each other in fact. However Saddam went from being a pain in the ass to a figure who might pose another threat like AQ but with the spector of nuclear bombs or other WMDs. He might give them to terrorists, we didn't know. 911 was Saddam's worst nightmare. He was bluffing to stave off an invasion from Iran and stay in power. He didn't believ that Bush would invade...he was wrong.

[Decker]

I'm saying that thousands had to die for our country to become the nation it did during the revolution, Iraq has to make the same sacrifices to have what we have. I don't feel bad about most of those deaths..of course there are always stories that get me but not many..

and yes, the number would have been the same with us there or not.

Oh and so his using chemical weapond on the kurds was backed by the US???

There's a difference.  The fledgling US wanted independence from England and the people gave their all to get it.

The US imposed independence with a gun on a not-ready-for-independence country...  Iraq is not the melting pot fighting for a common cause that the US was back in the day.


Billions in loans, weapons--including chemical and biological agents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran-Iraq_war

[headhuntersix]

Very true....many aren't ready, nor deserve democracy. I know the Afgani's aren't. I saw Iraq as we were taking it apart. It was like any other 3rd world shithole with a few nice area's.

[Decker]

Not many....anyway 911 and the Invasion had nothing to do with each other in fact. However Saddam went from being a pain in the ass to a figure who might pose another threat like AQ but with the spector of nuclear bombs or other WMDs. He might give them to terrorists, we didn't know. 911 was Saddam's worst nightmare. He was bluffing to stave off an invasion from Iran and stay in power. He didn't believ that Bush would invade...he was wrong.

Even the reactor built in '81 in Iraq (destroyed by Israel) had no capacity to create weapons grade material.  Even if Hussein had nuclear bombs he couldn't deliver the payload to the US.  Could he have given a bomb to his enemies in AQ?  Maybe.

But Iraq was ruined and destitute after Desert Storm including no nuclear program, it's pretty hard to arm your enemies with a resume like that.

It was the Bush administration that turned Hussein into a perceived world beater on crash course with the US after 9/11.

That just was not the case.

Iraq was a defenseless country on the ropes...hardly a military challenge to the US.

 

[Dos Equis]

That insulates you from criticism, doesn't it Beach Bum?

Why listen to any criticism when it is really just blind hatred?

That's weak and beneath you.

You're more than that.

What insulates me from criticism?  The fact I believe people in the Middle East will always hate us?  How so? 

I don't refuse to listen to criticism by people who hate us.  I simply don't agree with much of it.  Big difference. 

[Dos Equis]

Does 240 have yet another alia on here?

I think Decker confused 240 with livewire.  Are they the same?  Inquiring minds want to know.           

[Decker]

I think Decker confused 240 with livewire.  Are they the same?  Inquiring minds want to know.           

Yeah, I dropped the ball on that one.  Thanks. 

I'm trying to type some of these responses as I work and the work is winning.

[Livewire]

I think Decker confused 240 with livewire.  Are they the same?  Inquiring minds want to know.           

shit no, mate!!

[Dos Equis]

Yeah, I dropped the ball on that one.  Thanks. 

I'm trying to type some of these responses as I work and the work is winning.

Dude.  Get your priorities straight.   

Seriously, I have the same problem.  There are probably five different things going at the same time all day.  This multitasking sucks sometimes.   

[Dos Equis]

shit no, mate!!

Sorry mang.  Just asking.   

[Livewire]

Sorry mang.  Just asking.   

TOP THREE REASONS I AM NOT 240:

I'm funny.
I'm not fat.
I'm not crazy.

 

(jk 240, but you do go overboard with the 911 stuff... let history sort it out)

[Hugo Chavez]

Fair enough, Deck.  But I'm curious as to what the situation would be like had none of the "unnecessary" war had taken place. What would the state of the Middle East be in right now?  At peace?  Would the hostility we see now from that region be less than what it is now?  I'm of the impression that this hostility is something that has always existed, but newly found to the Western world, specifically towards the U.S.  So, I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on that. 

No... Had everyone been hushed and everything gone, "mission accomplished" we'd be now finishing up Iran and making plans for the next two wars!!!  NWO BABY!!! YAAAAA!!!!!

[Decker]

Dude.  Get your priorities straight.   

Seriously, I have the same problem.  There are probably five different things going at the same time all day.  This multitasking sucks sometimes.   

The workload was kicking my ass all over the office today.  It's hard to justify debating Iraq casualties when I got half a dozen tasks due yesterday and boss hovering over my shoulder.

[Mars]

The holy grounds of Iraq are destroyed by these villians in the whitehouse. the inhabitants of Iraq lived a safe and happy life before the agressor came and they turned the life of these brave iraqis in a living nightmare.

[Mars]

He does not believ the war was legal so its hard to answer this question. These people will always hate us no matter what.

Ever wondered why they hate us?