2007 IFBB PRO LEAGUE MINUTES

[Tamer Razor]

of course there were ulterior motives . . . are you turning into a flower child suddenly? why would they not try to steal the PDI's main attraction? it's the sensible thing to do.

Lee Priest has made his reputation through the IFBB. HE DECIDED TO LEAVE and during that time forcefully pointed to the IFBB problems. His arrogance, impulsive decision making and lack of professionalism were obvious. He must accept the consequences of his own actions. He knew well of the risks involved and decided to take it.

[Al-Gebra]

Lee Priest has made his reputation through the IFBB. HE DECIDED TO LEAVE and during that time forcefully pointed to the IFBB problems. His arrogance, impulsive decision making and lack of professionalism were obvious. He must accept the consequences of his own actions. He knew well of the risks involved and decided to take it.

the bottom line is it's fuckin stupid for a federation that's struggling to put asses in seats to kick out one of it's bigger draws for personal reasons.  they should have penalized him financially, and let him compete.

see the NFL for a primer on how to run a business where a lot of your stars are socio/psychopaths.

to borrow a flowerism.

IFBB = st00pid.

[Tamer Razor]

the bottom line is it's fuckin stupid for a federation that's struggling to put asses in seats to kick out one of it's bigger draws for personal reasons.  they should have penalized him financially, and let him compete.

see the NFL for a primer on how to run a business where a lot of your stars are socio/psychopaths.

to borrow a flowerism.

IFBB = st00pid.

The Bottom line is ....Lee Priest forgot rule number one of Business...EVERONE IS REPLACEBLE .... yep..even Lee Priest....
Lee is a Great competitor and a Legend ....but definitely will not be remember for his decision making....And I am not even talking about that face tattoo 

[mantronik]

XI.  A proposal from Bob Cicherillo that all IFBB Pro League cards will be renewed by annually by January 1st. Any card renewed after this deadline, and before February 1st, will have an additional US $100 fee attached. Renewals received after February 28th will be doubled, based on the original cost.

[Modification: All IFBB Pro League cards will be renewed (postmarked) annually by January 15th.  Any card renewed after this date will cost the athlete US $400.]
 
ADOPTED with modification

Why did you propose to fine your athletes if they are late with their fees?
I understand the IFBB tries to organise their structure but why did  you propose this as this is not exactly in favor of the athletes you're representing or is it? What is the bigger picture I'm missing?

You answered:
In reference to paying your dues as of Jan 15th....it's the PRO league...you're either in or your not. We had shows where we don't even know if a particular athlete has paid for his card, is current, etc....this aint the NPC where you can sign up on the spot. Without a line-up, we don't even know who to send info to...it's called being a PRO, being RESPONSIBLE as a professional, like every other aspect in life....you renew you drivers license whenever you want? How about your property taxes? Tell them you'll pay in July....

I understand this and you're making a good point, but why did you propose for those fees being that high?
Are these minutes being mailed to all I(nternational) F(ederation) BB pros in 2 or 3 different/other languages, so ALL of the international athletes understand that there is a high late fee attached to this now?
$400 in poor Russia/Serbia can be a different story for the involved athlete then $400 in the US.
I hope these athletes understand what is written here in english or at least they get the message in time.
How will they be notified of these minutes?
Do they know these minutes are posted on the ifbb website?

[G o a t b o y]

The Bottom line is ....Lee Priest forgot rule number one of Business...EVERONE IS REPLACEBLE ....

But the IFBB isn't a business...  it's a non-profit federation that exists to promote and grow the sport of bodybuilding.



(or so they tell the IRS.  )



 

[CRIS]

They are fucking hypocrites, that's what they are.

Monster bending, twisting and contorting the rules to be interpreted by their convenience.

After hearing a lot of crooked shit going on over the years, one has to wonder where is all the love for the sport and the athletes that motivated the IFBB founding fathers to start the organization? Did it ever exist, to begin with?
Or let's say, one day young uncle Joe fell outta bed and was struck by a ray of cleverness and inspiration and thought: "Hey, why not create a sport where I could start a professional organization that, at the same time, I could use as a network to spread my magazines and worthless powder supplements? All the while giving my brother a top position job running the show so I don't get accused to run the game 'cause it's my ball, afterall. In the meantime, I offer an oportunity for these lazy bums that will be called bodybuilders a chance to make some dime in what would possibly be a poor existance, eventhough they will risk their necks using drugs?? In the end I still can profit on them, as well, and also end up getting all my fantasies satisfied by them.
Wow, I'm the fucking mannnn.......Hey, Beeeeeeeeeeeennnnnn...co me up here....I'm thinking on something....."

[G o a t b o y]

But the IFBB isn't a business...  it's a non-profit federation that exists to promote and grow the sport of bodybuilding.



(or so they tell the IRS.  )



 

Hey...  I wonder if the American Red Cross blackballs their volunteers for disloyalty if they occasionally volunteer at the Salvation Army as well?   

[CRIS]

Hey...  I wonder if the American Red Cross blackballs their volunteers for disloyalty if they occasionally volunteer at the Salvation Army as well?   

LOL!!

[G o a t b o y]

Hey, I have an idea....   I'm going to buy a hotel, and hire 30 maids to clean the rooms.  But I'm not going to pay them.  Instead of a wage, what I'll do is hold a daily contest to determine the cleanest rooms. The maid who did the 1st place cleanest room will get $200,  second place will get $150, third will get $100, 4th will get $75, fifth will get $25, sixth will get $10, and the other 24 maids will be "out of the money" that day.

In addition, if any of the maids who don't do well enough to make a living through my generously giving them "the opportunity to win money" decide to clean rooms somewhere else on their day off to supplement their incomes, they're fired! 

Nothing wrong with that, right? 

[mantronik]

If the maids know these rules in advance and still are willing to sign the contract when you hire them taking the chance on winning some or nothing, then there is nothing wrong with firing them indeed if they break that rule which they sign for when they are hired.
Good going, boss! 
Can I judge?

[G o a t b o y]

If the maids know these rules in advance and still are willing to sign the contract when you hire them taking the chance on winning some or nothing, then there is nothing wrong with firing them indeed if they break that rule which they sign for when they are hired.
Good going, boss! 
Can I judge?

Okay, let's say I currently own all the hotels in the world, and I use this tactic in order to maintain my monopoly position and stifle competition.  Would I not be in violation of anti-trust laws?

[OneMoreRep]

Hey, I have an idea....   I'm going to buy a hotel, and hire 30 maids to clean the rooms.  But I'm not going to pay them.  Instead of a wage, what I'll do is hold a daily contest to determine the cleanest rooms. The maid who did the 1st place cleanest room will get $200,  second place will get $150, third will get $100, 4th will get $75, fifth will get $25, sixth will get $10, and the other 24 maids will be "out of the money" that day.

In addition, if any of the maids who don't do well enough to make a living through my generously giving them "the opportunity to win money" decide to clean rooms somewhere else on their day off to supplement their incomes, they're fired! 

Nothing wrong with that, right? 

Pro Bodybuilding is like Freelance modeling.  You get paid only if you look the way your employer wants you to look and if you don't look the part, you get nothing and lose the fare you paid to get to the audition...

Sadly, since 97% of these so-called pros aren't really too good at arguing (Besides Milos or Lee),  none of them will make it a point to refute this recent rule that has been added about paying that damn late fee.

I don't know Robert Michael, this might not go down too well with your fellow pros...

[Geo]

Okay, let's say I currently own all the hotels in the world, and I use this tactic in order to maintain my monopoly position and stifle competition.  Would I not be in violation of anti-trust laws?

maybe if you're old man bought ya j i joes as a kid instead of barbie dolls you  would'nt give a shit about what naked men are doing on stage or worrying about how they're gettin treated financially ?

 

[G o a t b o y]

Pro Bodybuilding is like Freelance modeling.  You get paid only if you look the way your employer wants you to look and if you don't look the part, you get nothing and lose the fare you paid to get to the audition...

Freelance models can work for whomever they want, and don't get blackballed for working for "unapproved" designers. There's no monopoly power in modeling. The same can't be said for bodybuilding. 

[G o a t b o y]

maybe if you're old man bought ya j i joes as a kid instead of barbie dolls you  would'nt give a shit about what naked men are doing on stage or worrying about how they're gettin treated financially ?

 

I don't give a shit.   I just like arguing...  you know that. 

[mantronik]

Okay, let's say I currently own all the hotels in the world, and I use this tactic in order to maintain my monopoly position and stifle competition.  Would I not be in violation of anti-trust laws?

Nothing stops the competition to lure the maids from your hotel.
Up to them to make it as attractive as possible for the best maids that wanted to sign the contract at your hotels.
But here is where I agree with you: why not let the maids come back once they found out that the grass is not greener on the other side? Why keep punishing them for leaving your hotel, talking smack about it etc?
They, wanting to come back obviously regret talking smack and leaving you otherwise they wouldn't want to come back.
You telling them to stay away for a year is punishment, then after the year telling them not to come back at all is a bit harsh.

[Lift Studios]

What would you have to talk about in the peanut gallery if there wasn't the IFBB? Daddywaddy's photos and True Adonis Principles. 

The IFBB and NPC provide a platform for people to compete. No one is forcing anyone to participate or follow it. If you don't like it go over the the WABBA DABBA DOODA orgs.

[G o a t b o y]

In case anyone was wondering...



Geo washes cars for a living! 

[Chick]

Why did you propose to fine your athletes if they are late with their fees?
I understand the IFBB tries to organise their structure but why did  you propose this as this is not exactly in favor of the athletes you're representing or is it? What is the bigger picture I'm missing?

You answered:
In reference to paying your dues as of Jan 15th....it's the PRO league...you're either in or your not. We had shows where we don't even know if a particular athlete has paid for his card, is current, etc....this aint the NPC where you can sign up on the spot. Without a line-up, we don't even know who to send info to...it's called being a PRO, being RESPONSIBLE as a professional, like every other aspect in life....you renew you drivers license whenever you want? How about your property taxes? Tell them you'll pay in July....

I understand this and you're making a good point, but why did you propose for those fees being that high?
Are these minutes being mailed to all I(nternational) F(ederation) BB pros in 2 or 3 different/other languages, so ALL of the international athletes understand that there is a high late fee attached to this now?
$400 in poor Russia/Serbia can be a different story for the involved athlete then $400 in the US.
I hope these athletes understand what is written here in english or at least they get the message in time.
How will they be notified of these minutes?
Do they know these minutes are posted on the ifbb website?

The minutes are posted on the official site for the IFBB,  IFBBPRO.com

All pro's are encouraged to keep themselves up to date on the changes in THEIR sport...

No, we don't offer it in other languages, if they wish, they can get it translated themselves...

Yes, they know that all info on IFBB matters is listed on the official IFBB website

[mantronik]

Why did you propose for those fees being that high?
$400 in poor Russia/Serbia can be a different story for the involved athlete then $400 in the US.

And why did this proposal come from you?
I understand if it came from JM but from you?
JM must have been happy to hear that the Athl rep is proposing this, thinking that the athletes asked you to ask him this for them, since you're repping them?
How would this benefit the athletes you're representing?
I can't see that one of the pros would ask you to propose this for them and for that amount?
For example paying an NPC membership fee as a late fee would be more reasonable and add to that for each month that they are late.

Don't know if Jenny H is posting/reading on here (I think she is) but do you have any idea why she didn't propose anything for fitness?
Suggesting better surfaces for their skills to be showcased so better/safer landings are guaranteed for example? I thought this was an issue for them for years?

[Lift Studios]

Don't know if Jenny H is posting/reading on here (I think she is) but do you have any idea why she didn't propose anything for fitness?
Suggesting better surfaces for their skills to be showcased so better/safer landings are guaranteed for example? I thought this was an issue for them for years?

This a good point, especially after the stage in West Palm Beach. That was way too small and one competitor flipped off the back. It is ultimately up to the promoter though.

[mantronik]

It is ultimately up to the promoter though.

Not if the Pro League demands from the promoter to protect their athletes, I think?
It's mandatory in gymnastics at the Olympic games and on any level (even high school level) to let the competitors show their routines on a cushioned surface, providing more safety for their competitors.
I don't see why this can't be demanded by the Pro League to a promoter for their fitness athletes of which some are 30+ (more injury prone).
Or maybe the Pro League can even sponsor (or find a sponsor) to provide the cushioning?

I know for a fact that in martial arts competitions/demonstrations/seminars for example mats are provided for the competitors/participants. When it's over the provider/sponsor of the mats (mostly a well known brand, but now not relevant to this topic) sells the newly used mats for wholesale price to anybody who is interested, so it's a win-win situation.
I'm sure there would be a gymnastics club in the town of competition who would love to buy an almost new mat (used for what? 3-4 hours max?) from a fitness competition and pay much less then buying it brand new! Maybe even donate it to a charity if they show good will? (Children's hospital who can use cushioned floor/areas for some diseases or playgrounds in those areas)

Sponsor of the mats happy, competitors happy, promoter happy that he could offer a safe surface, IFBB happy they could protect their athletes a little more and see them compete again next competition instead of sliding away to figure competition because of injuries...

Anybody see something wrong with this?

[Chick]

And why did this proposal come from you?
I understand if it came from JM but from you?
JM must have been happy to hear that the Athl rep is proposing this, thinking that the athletes asked you to ask him this for them, since you're repping them?
How would this benefit the athletes you're representing?
I can't see that one of the pros would ask you to propose this for them and for that amount?
For example paying an NPC membership fee as a late fee would be more reasonable and add to that for each month that they are late.

Don't know if Jenny H is posting/reading on here (I think she is) but do you have any idea why she didn't propose anything for fitness?
Suggesting better surfaces for their skills to be showcased so better/safer landings are guaranteed for example? I thought this was an issue for them for years?

The idea to have a set date was from me, the fine wasn't...we do discuss these things in advance.

Without a fine, or some other recourse...what would be the point in establishing any guidelines?

Life is full of them...look around.

[mantronik]

But you couldn't discuss the $400 being a bit too steep in some countries keeping standard of living in mind all over the world and come up with a more reasonable amount?
$400 in some countries could be 2 months salary.
So pay on time you would say.
True.
But it's not always that easy to get moeny from outside the US into the hands of the IFBB.
Fedex, Western Union, Bank wiring can be expensive in some countries.
I'm all for a late fee and that indeed applies to almost everything in life, but $400?

[Chick]

Not if the Pro League demands from the promoter to protect their athletes, I think?
It's mandatory in gymanstics at the Olympic games and on any level (even high school level) to let the competitors show their routines on a cushioned surface, providing more safety for their competitors.
I don't see why this can't be demanded by the Pro League to a promoter for their fitness athletes of which some are 30+ (more injury prone).
Or maybe the Pro League can even sponsor (or find a sponsor) to provide the cushioning?

I know for a fact that in martial arts competitions/demonstrations/seminars for example mats are provided for the competitors/participants. When it's over the provider/sponsor of the mats (mostly a well known brand, but now not relevant to this topic) sells the newly used mats for wholesale price to anybody who is interested, so it's a win-win situation.
I'm sure there would be a gymnastics club in the town of competition who would love to buy an almost new mat (used for what? 3-4 hours max?) from a fitness competition and pay much less then buying it brand new! Maybe even donate it to a charity if they show good will? (Children's hospital who can use cushioned floor/areas for some diseases or playgrounds in those areas)

Sponsor of the mats happy, competitors happy, promoter happy that he could offer a safe surface, IFBB happy they could protect their athletes a little more and see them compete again next competition instead of sliding away to figure competition because of injuries...

Anybody see something wrong with this?

What makes you think they want "cushioning"..? As far as I know, they don't ...it makes it worse. What we've asked for is a secure flooring...one that doesn't move, or have any deviations in it.

You're obviuosly arguing for the sake of just arguing...