If i want to look like this, what is the best route?

[Tom]

hi everyone! here's the question,just turned 43 been working out for a few years, but starting 2008 want to start going hardcore(training, diet,etc) however here's my ultimate goal in a few years: obviously want to get as big, massive and lean as possible, no not pro size (even if i could i wouldn't) but maybe npc level? (is that possible at my age even?)

so basically i want to get further than the "weekend warrior who has some abs and looks like he's fit and works out, basically i want to get past some damn fitness model shape, but stop before getting gigantic and bloated, somewhere in between i guess?!

npc level competitor physique would be the ultimate goal. so i'm wondering would i have to go the aas route, i would be willing as long as it's not insane high levels and i can cycle on and off throughout the year, (no way am i touching the gh and insulin!)

[trab]

Injuries and fittness level now?

I dont think the big heart-Thumping doses it take to get competitive look/ size are healthy to lay on at that age, unless your a very muscular Nat mesomorph and close to them to start.

You gonna have to run heart-in-throat doses for a long spell to be competitve at that level unless your
a rare specimine. Sorry. 

That dont mean you cant throw on 20lbs of nicely shaped lean lookin swell, and strength to go.

[Overload]

NPC guy?

this will get you started...

1500mg Test
600mg Deca
600mg Eq
100mg Anadrol
6iu GH
10iu Slin

For 5 years or so.

Good luck, let us know how it works out for you.

and yes i'm being sarcastic so please don't do this if you value your health.

[trab]

RIght, I could front load that test and deca and even the Drol for a short stint, not long though.
It takes a strong, healthy, young, horse of a guy to tollerate taht much jet fule.

Im just not sure what to make of all his leading questions..... 

Sort of like asking about price of a Ferrari, if you have to ask......

Can he use AAS and improve condition? Yes, even legaly.

[Arnold jr]

Bro, if you start dedicating your ass to perfect training and dieting, coupled with some serious AAS cycles, not insane cycles, but serious ones, then you will reach your goals.

There are many ways to reach this goal...tons of ways to skin a cat...even so, which ever methods you choose, just be dedicated to them and stick to that method. That said, and most of the regulars here already know which methods of dieting and training I prefer, but for those that don't, and you'd fall into this category...I'm sold 100% on the Dave P. style of eating and training. I've progressed with this more in the last 1yr+ then I have in the previous 5yrs combined, IMO.

[Tom]

arnold jr what is the dave p. style of eating and training are you talking about? d.pulcinella?

for trab, in regard to my "leading" questions, 1) no i'm not LE, far from it,so far i didnt know what the heck you were talking about. besides there isn't a crime in talking about this stuff right and 2) my leading questions are in my opinion detailed questions because if i or anyone on this board isn't detailed,explicit in their questions, they will perhaps be disappointed in the replies.i thought my detailed questions would indicated my seriousness and wanting to learn from you and others in the know.

[trab]

Dave Palumbo, Jumbo Palumbo... His colume in MD is one of the best pieces of writing on the subject of steroids.

As far as using the stuff, yes IMO it can be used safely and change your body for teh better,
But as far as taking it to the level of a national competitor, thats a tough nut for anyone.
And truth be told, prolly not healthy in the long run IMO.

Overloads stack and time estimate for a guy with good genetics is not a bad estimate.
Them guys aint on 200mg of testo.
ALso, the look is from dieting down from much bigger.
Having that level of lean mass all year is impossible.
Well, ANdreas Muntzner was usually ripped, now hes RIP.

WHere you want to get to realisticly is the better question, waht shape in now?
Lifting experience, and as I asked before about Injuries.
Its rare to be this age and NOT have a pile of nagging injuries. 
COming off a cycle can unmask a lot of injuries esp older in  guys.

[Arnold jr]

arnold jr what is the dave p. style of eating and training are you talking about? d.pulcinella?

With training: It's similar to HIT training, but a bit more volume...far from high volume though. Very few sets per exercise but a handfull of exercises per body part. Also, you don't pyramid with the weight like most guys do. You warm up thouroughly at the beginning and then go right into the working sets...1-2 working set per exercise...after the first exercise, you do not "warm up" you go straight to the working sets.

Diet: Off season, high protein, moderate fat, moderate carbs
Contest, high protein moderate fat, very very low carb...no more then 50g carbs per day from indirect sources.

In both instances the majority of the fat intake should come from healthy fats, i.e. oils, nuts, lean beef, etc.

[Overload]

Overloads stack and time estimate for a guy with good genetics is not a bad estimate.

it's a real stack a friend of mine is on. he's a big fucker too.

i still don't suggest any person try it though.

[trab]

it's a real stack a friend of mine is on. he's a big fucker too.

i still don't suggest any person try it though.

Thats why his "National competitor" goal struck me odd. Its not realistic if you have to ask.
Thats a very tough crowd.

Takes a good genetic base, long time training and not just a little juice.

[krazee]

it's a real stack a friend of mine is on. he's a big fucker too.

i still don't suggest any person try it though.

Are you for real, that stack is off the hook. I would only imagine him being a big fucker as you put it. But he must feel like shit at most times with that kind of Drol in his system. I coun't imagine doing 100 mg of Drol, 50mg makes me feel like a bag of dump, double the dose...would make me feel like the ass it came from..IMO

[trab]

Are you for real, that stack is off the hook. I would only imagine him being a big fucker as you put it. But he must feel like shit at most times with that kind of Drol in his system. I coun't imagine doing 100 mg of Drol, 50mg makes me feel like a bag of dump, double the dose...would make me feel like the ass it came from..IMO

Ive taken 150 for a few days. Droll makes you feel like crap no matter. Not much difference between 100 &150 IMO.
I could hack the TE at 1000-1500 for a couple weeks or so is all. A Good front load for a guy thats used close to it.
Id be limp dick on the deca at 6oo; Hurtin' joints on the 6iu GH, and possibly Dead on the slin.

Its too harsh for most to sustain on that for long, but thats what it takes. Need be a animal to hack them vitamins.

[warrant800]

Wow....seems like people can be really sensitive on these boards....In regards to what magic formula is going to be required to look like an NPC competitor-It depends on much more than a cycle of course...With the questions you are asking "Tom" it sounds like you might want to gather alot of training and nutrition information....Put together a training and nutrition program.....Go get a personal trainer if you have to , if only to establish some goals and develp a plan to achieve them...At your age, longevity in training should also be a consideration.  So flat bench, deadlifts, squats, and bent over barbell rows might hurt!  Trying to start putting on mass at your age is possible, but only with intense dedication, listening to your body, working around potential injuries, etc.  At your age you would qualify for HRT which would be the safest way to go for you...In order for that to be legal you must have a face to face doctor visit , bloodwork, and adhere to whatever local laws apply in your state.....but doing AAS for you would be putting the cart before the horse without all of the other components in place.  Also I don't think you will have to worry about "stopping" before you get too big...

[local hero]

Its rare to be this age and NOT have a pile of nagging injuries. 
COming off a cycle can unmask a lot of injuries esp older in  guys.

thats 100% true, and another reason why alot of people tend to stay on most of the time,, at 26 i feel like im falling to bits when i come off injury wise, fuck knows what it must be like at 46...

guess whos never goin below 10 reps for anything once he gets fit!