Author Topic: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08  (Read 1202 times)

Hugo Chavez

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headhuntersix

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 11:29:12 AM »
I'm catholic..did 12 years in catholic school...I learned that God will forgive me and that  he has better things to do then worry about my vote.
L

headhuntersix

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 11:30:12 AM »
Or to answer ur question directly..guidance but not a directive etc.
L

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 11:36:56 AM »
Or to answer ur question directly..guidance but not a directive etc.
So you would disgree with Bishop's use of the words "must follow... when voting"

headhuntersix

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 11:40:55 AM »
Yeah I'm also an American and I'll vote for whoever I choose to. They should stay outa politics..just like the Christan far right. I'm a Conservative , u know that..but I don't like bible thumpers...they give me an itchy feeling.
L

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 11:55:15 AM »
Yeah I'm also an American and I'll vote for whoever I choose to. They should stay outa politics..just like the Christan far right. I'm a Conservative , u know that..but I don't like bible thumpers...they give me an itchy feeling.
well said :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 09:57:31 AM »
Doesn't sound illegal to me.  Dumb, but not illegal.  If Catholic voters don't like what their church is directing them to do they should join another church. 

militarymuscle69

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 10:20:52 AM »
How does this differ fron Unions saying the same thing? You know what a union will do if they find out you vote republican?
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 10:23:21 AM »
Doesn't illegal to me.  Dumb, but not illegal.  If Catholic voters don't like what their church is directing them to do they should join another church. 
I didn't say it is illegal, it should be illegal.  You can't tell your employees how to vote yet by the same logic, they could just leave their job.  I guess if Catholics disagree, they can just walk away from their faith, become a prodestant  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2007, 10:34:48 AM »
I didn't say it is illegal, it should be illegal.  You can't tell your employees how to vote yet by the same logic, they could just leave their job.  I guess if Catholics disagree, they can just walk away from their faith, become a prodestant  ::)

Okay.  It doesn't sound illegal and shouldn't be illegal.  Attending church is a purely voluntary activity, as is membership in a church.  If you don't like the demands your church imposes on your private life--and plenty of churches do this--you find another church.  How in the world would government legislate something like this? 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 11:52:04 AM »
Okay.  It doesn't sound illegal and shouldn't be illegal.  Attending church is a purely voluntary activity, as is membership in a church.  If you don't like the demands your church imposes on your private life--and plenty of churches do this--you find another church.  How in the world would government legislate something like this? 
Working is purely voluntary too, you still can't tell your employees that they need to vote in accordance with company policy.  Just leave the church?  Well for those who have faith in that path, that's holding a vote vs. damnation and you don't see what's wrong?  This is the biggest church in the world attempting to effect democracies around the world... Your answer is that they can just leave?.  I think it's much better to insist that you can't hold something over another to affect their vote.  There are already laws in that area, this really should fit.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 12:26:36 PM »
Working is purely voluntary too, you still can't tell your employees that they need to vote in accordance with company policy.  Just leave the church?  Well for those who have faith in that path, that's holding a vote vs. damnation and you don't see what's wrong?  This is the biggest church in the world attempting to effect democracies around the world... Your answer is that they can just leave?.  I think it's much better to insist that you can't hold something over another to affect their vote.  There are already laws in that area, this really should fit.

I don't know whether a company can force a person to vote a certain way or not.  Maybe there is something in the Voting Rights Act and/or some other federal or state law that addresses employer/employee/voting issues.  Never thought about it.   

But regarding churches, I said this is "dumb."  I don't think a church should tell its members how to vote.  What you raised was the issue of illegality.  I don't see how the government can regulate demands a church places on its members.

There are many things churches regulate, including the private sexual conduct of its members.  For example, in Hawaii an employer cannot fire someone because they are homosexual.  But a church can remove a member because of homosexuality.   

Cap

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2007, 12:28:03 PM »
Working is purely voluntary too, you still can't tell your employees that they need to vote in accordance with company policy.  Just leave the church?  Well for those who have faith in that path, that's holding a vote vs. damnation and you don't see what's wrong?  This is the biggest church in the world attempting to effect democracies around the world... Your answer is that they can just leave?.  I think it's much better to insist that you can't hold something over another to affect their vote.  There are already laws in that area, this really should fit.
The government cannot legislate in religion and you don't lose money by leaving a church, you do lose money if you quit your job.  In terms of war and abortion this is nothing new with the Church.  The Church has stances they believe in and they stick to their guns.  Should we arrest the priest that refused to serve Kerry communion?
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2007, 12:51:32 PM »
I don't know whether a company can force a person to vote a certain way or not.  Maybe there is something in the Voting Rights Act and/or some other federal or state law that addresses employer/employee/voting issues.  Never thought about it.   

But regarding churches, I said this is "dumb."  I don't think a church should tell its members how to vote.  What you raised was the issue of illegality.  I don't see how the government can regulate demands a church places on its members.

There are many things churches regulate, including the private sexual conduct of its members.  For example, in Hawaii an employer cannot fire someone because they are homosexual.  But a church can remove a member because of homosexuality.   
No what I raised was that it's should be illegal, not that I think it is presently illegal.  No way they're going to go arrest bishops.  I simply don't think the church should be holding damnation over their vote and in many minds that's exactly what it could amount to, especially with the catholic church.  I simply do not like government in church affairs or church in the government affairs.  Had they used the word "encourage" rather than "must follow" I wouldn't have an issue at all.  As it stands now, this is a means of holding damnation over any issue the church gives an opinion on... yuk...  I think if there is some serious consquence held over any voter to vote a certain way it should be illegal in America and yes, it is in the workplace. 

And losing money is really secondary in the minds of the faithful to losing your soul Cap.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2007, 01:14:14 PM »
No what I raised was that it's should be illegal, not that I think it is presently illegal.  No way they're going to go arrest bishops.  I simply don't think the church should be holding damnation over their vote and in many minds that's exactly what it could amount to, especially with the catholic church.  I simply do not like government in church affairs or church in the government affairs.  Had they used the word "encourage" rather than "must follow" I wouldn't have an issue at all.  As it stands now, this is a means of holding damnation over any issue the church gives an opinion on... yuk...  I think if there is some serious consquence held over any voter to vote a certain way it should be illegal in America and yes, it is in the workplace. 

And losing money is really secondary in the minds of the faithful to losing your soul Cap.

I understand.  I'm saying it shouldn't be illegal and I don't think it can be.  It's a dumb thing for a church to do, but I don't think the government can interfere with a church like this.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 01:49:44 PM »
I understand.  I'm saying it shouldn't be illegal and I don't think it can be.  It's a dumb thing for a church to do, but I don't think the government can interfere with a church like this.
yea, so far it only appears the church can interfere with gov.  Not a good direction to go in.

Cap

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Re: Bishops: Catholics must follow church doctrine when voting in '08
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 02:05:33 PM »
yea, so far it only appears the church can interfere with gov.  Not a good direction to go in.
How so?  What specifically has the Catholic Church done to influence the gov't?  We've had one Catholic president and he had a short term (KIA).  So please tell me.  The Catholic Church does not support the war, attacks poverty, is at odds with the death penalty and is certainly not racist.  Other than disagree with abortion (which is legal) what do they have a say in? 

Would you care to change your argument to one against Protestants, Baptists and Evangelicals?
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