Strict barbell rows with 405 ? 455 ?

[SirTraps]

how the hell do you have any sort of good form with really really heavy weights... my example would be my barbell rows... i have a handful of good reps with good form with 405 but..when i get to 455 i get alot of leg drive in getting it up. I get a ridiculous pump in my lats and they're tired out when it's over but i start out bent over right and finish it pretty close to standing up at the top of the row.  My question is how the hell do you get to move big weight, stay balanced, and use what is supposed to resemble good form?! Especially when you're doing close to double your  body weight?

          I didnt know Ronnie Coleman posts here 

          Is this believable ? im having a hard time believing this

[Overload]

if that's wicked they are more like "power shrugs".

[Charlys69]

we didn`t know until we see a clip ?? Barbell rows are a exercise on which everybody can use much heavier loads while cheating (like
biceps curls, side-laterals). Also, what someone call "strict", another one will call "bad form". So it`s a relative thing.....

Sometimes when i`m training i also go a bit overboard with strict form when using real heavy weights. But as a re-natural (for 3 Years)
and in my mid-40`s i do exercises which don`t allow me to cheat to much, so i can avoid injury. Example T-Bar rows on a special bench.

[Stu]

no one can do barbell rows the old fashioned way with that kind of weight, sure the yates style almost stood upright rows yeah

[Charlys69]

strict barbell rows parallel to the floor with 4 plates + (each side) is really outstanding. But i disagree that it is impossible. There are a lot of strength athletes (esp. Strongman, heavy powerlifter) who where able to perform sets in good form even with this weight.

[Mars]

am i the only one never doing bent over rows yates style but parallel to the floor?

[thewickedtruth]

hahaha this thread is priceless....you guys better watch out  before thelamefalsehood shows up and blows you all away wiht lbage amazingness! WHEREYOUAT BROTHER RAAAAAAAWRGGH!!!

[The Luke]

The best way to do barbell rows (I'm not saying it's the only way to do them, just that it's the most productive) is with your lower back (lumbar region) parallel to the floor at all times and arching your upper back in such a way that your shoulders rise slightly above your hips at the top of the movement (still keeping your lower back parallel to the floor).

Doing them this way greatly reduces the problem of a shifting centre of gravity.

The real secret however, is to use a shoulder width grip (an EZ-bar allows you to clear your knees a little more easily) and PULL TO YOUR LOWER STOMACH.

Rowing to your sternum or chest is a waste of time with regard to activating the latissimae dorsi muscles... rowing to your lower stomach or public bone area might reduce the weight used but pays dividends in terms of mind-muscle connection and lat development.


For the record, NO ONE can row four plates to their lower stomach without standing up somewhat... even two plates that way is a feat of strength akin to squatting four plates all the way down or deadlifting four plates.


The Luke

[Stu]

For the record, NO ONE can row four plates to their lower stomach without standing up somewhat... even two plates that way is a feat of strength akin to squatting four plates all the way down or deadlifting four plates.


The Luke

Thats what i said, lee haney used to do them this way and i dont think went much above a plate and a half to two plates

[The Squadfather]

Thats what i said, lee haney used to do them this way and i dont think went much above a plate and a half to two plates

the only person i've ever seen do them the old fashoined way with the back close to parallel to the floor and standing on some type of block with anything over 300 pounds is Bertil Fox in his second video doing them with 335 or so.

[Cap]

the only person i've ever seen do them the old fashoined way with the back close to parallel to the floor and standing on some type of block with anything over 300 pounds is Bertil Fox in his second video doing them with 335 or so.

I've seen pics of Franco and Arnold with 3 plates.

[The Squadfather]

I've seen pics of Franco and Arnold with 3 plates.

yeah them too, matter of fact i think Arnold did them standing on a bench.

[Pete Nice]

yeah them too, matter of fact i think Arnold did them standing on a bench.

youre right...in his barefeet

[Stu]

look at huge nasser el sonbaty's form here(1 min 45sec onwards), does this really give the back anywhere near the kind of workout that doing it the old fashioned way would, its gonna hit the traps more i would have thought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SdWn2oyus

[The Squadfather]

youre right...in his barefeet

who you got in the Mizzou/KU game next week, Pete?

[slaveboy1980]

is that a quote from "wickedtruth" aka constantlies 

[The Luke]

I've seen pics of Franco and Arnold with 3 plates.

...Flex magazine adds the plates by photoshop.

Arnold did his rows with 2 plates and rounded his back. He didn't go above parallel so they still worked, but they work better with a continuously arched back and rowing to lower on the stomach... there's no need to stretch the lat at all in this movement; an arched back creates a strain on the lats even in the relaxed position.

There seems to be this assumption in bodybuilding that what the pros do must be proper training when in fact the opposite is often true... for example: Lee Haney may credit wide grip chins and pulldowns with his flaring lats, but we all know that clavicle-width/lat-attachments are genetic and wide grip rowing/pulling movements are less productive than the narrower grip alternatives yet greatly increase the risk of injury.

If I ever end up in a FLEX magazine training article I similarly could credit working on building sites wearing hob-nail boots with my freaky calf development... when in fact my whole family have exceptionally long calves and I don't even train mine.

For the record: Dorian and Ronnie only row in a semi-upright manner because of their enlarged midsections.



The Luke

[England_1]

For the record: Dorian and Ronnie only row in a semi-upright manner because of their enlarged midsections.



The Luke

 

No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.

[SirTraps]

Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it?

       Ronnie, Dorian and "TheWickedTruth" all have     

[delta9mda]

No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.

agreed, luke sounds jealous.

[mass 04]

       Ronnie, Dorian and "TheWickedTruth" all have     

hahah, that's quite a group

[MAXX]

No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.

England_1 knows what he's talking about.

You cant simple handle to have poundages if you're parallel. simply because its impossile to balance the beight at that angle. Ronnie and Doz knew what they where doing.. obviously..

[thelamefalsehood]

Usually I row a VW Bug on each end of the bar but next week I'm moving up to an SUV on each side I'M INTENSE BITCHES, 405 FOR ROWS IS WHAT MY GRANDMA IN THE NURSING HOME USES,AGGHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thewickedtruth]

look at huge nasser el sonbaty's form here(1 min 45sec onwards), does this really give the back anywhere near the kind of workout that doing it the old fashioned way would, its gonna hit the traps more i would have thought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SdWn2oyus

if you guys use nasser and dorian as an example of a heavy ass row then i'm golden and don't have any other questions. I not only bend over that far but I pull that shit into my stomach..i don't stop short mid quad like nasser does.

And to the guys that think perfect form is completely bent over..you're full of shit because there's no way your lower back can take that OR you can keep balanced with that kind of weight bent over like that.

And dorian's back was lightyears above francos and arnold's cap...but they're still big ass backs that i'd like to have!  

[thewickedtruth]

Usually I row a VW Bug on each end of the bar but next week I'm moving up to an SUV on each side I'M INTENSE BITCHES, 405 FOR ROWS IS WHAT MY GRANDMA IN THE NURSING HOME USES,AGGHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now that's what i'm talkign about baby! way to bring the motherfuckinpain train to the HISZOUSE NAWMEAN!!!