Author Topic: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993  (Read 99589 times)

Shockwave

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #325 on: November 22, 2007, 06:36:58 PM »
I post in the religious section and placed 3rd in the Mr. Getbig. I'm not Hulkster.
I know you're not. I was just pointing out how eerily close you're posts were sounding to Hulksters.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #326 on: November 22, 2007, 06:37:30 PM »
to use your argument against you, do Dorian's legs have great separations and striations? No. If they did, he wouldn't have to turn them outwards in every front pose to display his inner thighs. He has good definition in his sartorius muscle and that's it. Whoop-tee-f*cking-doo!

ha ha ha ha. Sorry, but "bone dry and rock hard" doesn't look like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Where are the cuts?



this is what dry and shredded looks like.


???

Quote
to use your argument against you, do Dorian's legs have great separations and striations? No. If they did, he wouldn't have to turn them outwards in every front pose to display his inner thighs. He has good definition in his sartorius muscle and that's it. Whoop-tee-f*cking-doo!

Wow you certainly proved me wrong  ::) points to ponder commit these to memory , Dorian is untanned , he has no posing oil , he doesn't have the advantage of contest lighting even without all that Dorian is still fucking outstanding  , but you think you've proved a point by posting a contest ready , tanned , posing oil Coleman DVD screen grab  ::) wow you're certainly taking everything into consideration of course not bias prevents you from doing so

And to answer your question Dorian's legs have great separations starting with his qaudriceps Dorian shows excellent separation and development of the vastus lateralis and vastus medialis , he shows good separation of the rectus femoris but this is one area of the quads Ronnie shows better separation , now another area that you keep dismissing because you see what you want is Dorian showing better separation in the satorius and tensor fasciae latae

Lets move onto hamstrings everyone goes one about Ronnie's hams and he has good one but Dorian shows great separation of the of the biceps femoris , semimembranosus and semitendinosus

moving onto calves despite what Hulkster says , Ronnie is in no way shape or form compatable with Dorian , Dorian shows outstanding development and separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads , great separation of the soleus and , tibialis

Overall this is key pay attention , Dorian's legs have better balance & proportion , his quads match up perfectly with his calves and his hams complement his quads especially when viewed from the side , Ronnie especially when he's heavier carries a ton of size in his quads and from the side they dominate his hams , again overall Dorians legs have advantages over Ronnie just like the rest of his physique

Again lets say Ronnie's quads are just leaps & bounds better is his abdominal & thigh better than Yates? NO thats how it works kid , learn this.

Quote
ha ha ha ha. Sorry, but "bone dry and rock hard" doesn't look like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Where are the cuts?



this is what dry and shredded looks like.

More points to ponder , you CAN NOT ascertain Dorian's level of conditioning based on such an inaccurate means , compressed video , untanned , no posing oil , etc oh and keep in mind the army of people who said Dorian looks ' light years ahead of the way he does in pics & video ' and then your critique Dorian is soft or looks like dough is nothing more than biased propaganda aimed at proving a point to make you secure in ignorant opinion

Seeing the means of ascertaining Dorian's conditioning is out of our reach we have to rely on eyewitness testimony and the Dorian gained a reputation for legendary conditioning , now once again you think ONLY striations mean great conditioning and thats a fallacy , and ontop of that Dorian has many striations again , pecs , triceps , delts , intercostals , obliques , traps , lower lats , erector spinae , the highwater mark for conditioning is density and what is density?

Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.

Muscle hardness sound familiar? Dorian is renowned for his muscle hardness and notice where it says muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized , which is exatly what made Dorian's conditioning legendary , being dry is great being bone dry & rock hard is where is the epitome of great conditioning , this is what you people cannot grasp , Ronnie showed this outstandning combo of conditioning in 1998 and 2001 but he was just 247 pounds , Dorian has that rock hard conditioning at 269 pounds a feat Ronnie wasn't really able to accomplish the heavier he became the more his conditioning suffered

Peter McGough on Dorian's conditioning at 269 pounds



' He was 269 pounds of rock-hard shapely (yes, shapely) head-to-toe muscle. '

So please don't refer to Dorian as ' soft ' or ' doughy ' because when you do you scream " Look how ignorant I am about conditioning and competitive bodybuilding "

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #327 on: November 22, 2007, 06:45:20 PM »
"bone dry and rock hard"  ::)





yeah you would know because you were there  ::) and you know what rock hard is  ::) Mr Ignorant claims Dorian's legendary conditioning was a myth and due to poor skin  ::) and you based your ' opinion ' off a compressed video of an untanned , no oil and no contest lighting Dorian who everyone and their brother says looks light years ahead of the way he does in pics & video , you're not biased  ::)

lets take it from some one who was there  ;)


Peter McGough on Dorian's conditioning at 269 pounds



' He was 269 pounds of rock-hard shapely (yes, shapely) head-to-toe muscle. '


rock hard , I guess that shuts your ignorant opinion up in about 2 seconds flat

Neo you'll never be in my league , just like Hulkster and pumpster you people are NOT operating on my level.


Hulkster

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #328 on: November 22, 2007, 06:49:54 PM »
ND you are missing the point.

his condition was not a myth.

but his condition was NEVER compared to the super ripped dryness of a 99 Ronnie Coleman either.

like I said, ronnie took it to a new level:

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Hulkster

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #329 on: November 22, 2007, 06:50:55 PM »
just look at that.

ronnie 99 took being ripped to a whole different level than the early 90's champ ever did.

its just called progress.

thats the reality of the situation.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #330 on: November 22, 2007, 06:56:14 PM »
ND you are missing the point.

his condition was not a myth.

but his condition was NEVER compared to the super ripped dryness of a 99 Ronnie Coleman either.

like I said, ronnie took it to a new level:



NO you're missing the point , YOU yourself claimed Dorian's conditioning was a myth period , now you're reduced to backpeddling

Dorian was ripped , he had striations , pecs , triceps , obliques , intercostals , glutes , lower lats erector spinae and now this is where you get OWNED he had all that PLUS Density get it ? DENSITY is the highwater mark for conditioning its a step beyond being dry its highly prized

Dorian 269 pounds bone dry & ROCK HARD couple that with his superior balance & proportion and his completeness and better posing and you have a defeated Coleman , you can't and never will be able to counter that .


Hulkster

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #331 on: November 22, 2007, 07:00:28 PM »
NO you're missing the point , YOU yourself claimed Dorian's conditioning was a myth period , now you're reduced to backpeddling

Dorian was ripped , he had striations , pecs , triceps , obliques , intercostals , glutes , lower lats erector spinae and now this is where you get OWNED he had all that PLUS Density get it ? DENSITY is the highwater mark for conditioning its a step beyond being dry its highly prized

Dorian 269 pounds bone dry & ROCK HARD couple that with his superior balance & proportion and his completeness and better posing and you have a defeated Coleman , you can't and never will be able to counter that .



LOL its amazing how unintelligent you are.

you don't seem to understand that all of that CAN BE TRUE and yet dorian STILL WAS NOT AS GOOD, NOR AS DRY OR RIPPED AS 99 RONNIE.

you are comparing two different time periods.

what was groundbreaking in 93 was not necessarily the same in 99:
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #332 on: November 22, 2007, 07:00:38 PM »
just look at that.

ronnie 99 took being ripped to a whole different level than the early 90's champ ever did.

its just called progress.

thats the reality of the situation.

You're full of shit ripped doesn't mean DENSE Dorian is the epitome of DRYNESS & DENSITY balance & proportion , completeness and size Ronnie never matched Dorian's overall package who has since 1993?

Coleman gains ten pounds from 98 - 99 and bye . bye density , Dorian 269 pounds dry & dense with balance Ronnie never had the sport stopped in 1993 kid Ronnie would need to be reborn with better genetics to progress beyond Yates

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #333 on: November 22, 2007, 07:04:32 PM »
LOL its amazing how unintelligent you are.

you don't seem to understand that all of that CAN BE TRUE and yet dorian STILL WAS NOT AS GOOD, NOR AS DRY OR RIPPED AS 99 RONNIE.

you are comparing two different time periods.

what was groundbreaking in 93 was not necessarily the same in 99:

You bitch about someone's intelligence and then what do you do moron? compare a DVD screencap to a magazine scan lol you're such an idiot

dry & ripped are the same thing you fucking moron lol density & dry are NOT

Ronnie 257 pounds dry not rock hard
Dorian 269 pounds dry & ROCK HARD

Ronnie 257 pounds - mediocre balance & proportion
Dorian 269 pounds - outstanding balance & proportion




NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #334 on: November 22, 2007, 07:09:10 PM »
Super ripped & ROCK HARD pecs , intercostals , delts , oblqiues , lower lats , erector spinae , traps , couple that with triceps and glutes and you're fucked .  ;)

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #335 on: November 22, 2007, 07:19:20 PM »
Hey ND,

This is cool because I seriously want to know how exactly
Dorian is more dense than Ronnie. I mentioned in two different
threads for someone to explain the definition of grainy and I didn't
get one response. I don't really care about battling about who's better
or not but I do want you to give me a definition of density and explain
why Dorian is denser than Ronnie. 

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #336 on: November 22, 2007, 07:33:27 PM »
I honestly want to understand where you are coming from when it comes to density.
I don't understand this quote at all. "Coleman gains ten pounds from 98 - 99 and bye . bye density."
 I know you have a knowledge of the human muscular system and the names of all the muscles
but I'm very curious to hear this explained.
Your picture you posted of Ronnie 98-99

gordiano

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #337 on: November 22, 2007, 07:36:28 PM »
Not this shit again............ >:(
HAHA, RON.....

Shockwave

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #338 on: November 22, 2007, 07:38:24 PM »
I honestly want to understand where you are coming from when it comes to density.
I don't understand this quote at all. "Coleman gains ten pounds from 98 - 99 and bye . bye density."
 I know you have a knowledge of the human muscular system and the names of all the muscles
but I'm very curious to hear this explained.
Your picture you posted of Ronnie 98-99
Epic gyno and turnip quads stacked on sticks.

bizzy

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #339 on: November 22, 2007, 07:42:49 PM »
Epic gyno and turnip quads stacked on sticks.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Shock. You answered my serious questions
with an answer that makes everything clear to me.
I honestly think ND will give a good descriptive answer whether I agree or not.

Shockwave

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #340 on: November 22, 2007, 07:44:13 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up for me Shock. You answered my serious questions
with an answer that makes everything clear to me.
I honestly think ND will give a good descriptive answer whether I agree or not.
I wasn't answering your questions, smartass, I was pointing out the first things I noticed when I saw those photos.
Honestly I am not eloquent enough to describe the density issue to you.

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #341 on: November 22, 2007, 07:45:24 PM »
Wow you certainly proved me wrong points to ponder commit these to memory , Dorian is untanned , he has no posing oil , he doesn't have the advantage of contest lighting even without all that Dorian is still fucking outstanding  , but you think you've proved a point by posting a contest ready , tanned , posing oil Coleman DVD screen grab wow you're certainly taking everything into consideration of course not bias prevents you from doing so

wtf are you talking about? I posted a blurry screen cap of an untanned Ronnie with no posing oil or contest lighting, and he still beats Dorian. So quit making excuses.



Quote
And to answer your question Dorian's legs have great separations starting with his qaudriceps Dorian shows excellent separation and development of the vastus lateralis and vastus medialis , he shows good separation of the rectus femoris but this is one area of the quads Ronnie shows better separation , now another area that you keep dismissing because you see what you want is Dorian showing better separation in the satorius and tensor fasciae latae

ha ha ha ha







Quote
Lets move onto hamstrings everyone goes one about Ronnie's hams and he has good one but Dorian shows great separation of the of the biceps femoris , semimembranosus and semitendinosus

Ronnie destroys Dorian in hamstrings. It's not even close.





Quote
moving onto calves despite what Hulkster says , Ronnie is in no way shape or form compatable with Dorian , Dorian shows outstanding development and separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads , great separation of the soleus and , tibialis

I've never argued that Ronnie's calves were better. So you won't hear any disagreement from me.

Quote
Peter McGough on Dorian's conditioning at 269 pounds[

' He was 269 pounds of rock-hard shapely (yes, shapely) head-to-toe muscle. '

here's another quote from the same guy.

Peter McGough - Flex, August 2005

"Ronnie sporting that [01 ASC] look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."

Quote
So please don't refer to Dorian as ' soft ' or ' doughy ' because when you do you scream " Look how ignorant I am about conditioning and competitive bodybuilding "

ditto. ;)

Jim Stoppani – Flex Magazine, July 2005



Hulkster

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #342 on: November 22, 2007, 07:46:41 PM »
I honestly want to understand where you are coming from when it comes to density.
I don't understand this quote at all. "Coleman gains ten pounds from 98 - 99 and bye . bye density."
 I know you have a knowledge of the human muscular system and the names of all the muscles
but I'm very curious to hear this explained.
Your picture you posted of Ronnie 98-99

ND likes to go on about how coleman lost density and detail from 98 to 99, but cannot produce a single shread of visual evidence to substantiate this claim.

in fact, the visual evidence shows Ronnie being HARDER and DRYER in 99 than in 98:

and there are lots of quotes to corroberate the visual evidence.

peter McGough disagreed, but clearly is incorrect. Other eyewitnesses (like Lonnie Teper from ironman and ronnie himself at the 99 contest) have stated that ronnie was in better shape in 99 than in 98.

not the opposite as ND loves to claim without evidence:

99 vs 98.
sorry, but Helen Keller can see that Ronnie was in better shape in 99 than in 98: hell, look at the quads alone.
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bizzy

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #343 on: November 22, 2007, 07:48:01 PM »
I wasn't answering your questions, smartass, I was pointing out the first things I noticed when I saw those photos.
Honestly I am not eloquent enough to describe the density issue to you.

My apologies if I offended you.

Shockwave

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #344 on: November 22, 2007, 07:49:32 PM »
My apologies if I offended you.

Haha. You cannot offend me.
Merely stating your sarcasm was not needed, as I wasn't trying to answer your questions.

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #345 on: November 22, 2007, 07:52:12 PM »
2) Dorian did win the second round (muscularity), but knew after the prejudging that Haney deserved to win. Jeff, do you remember when Dorian and Lee were engaged in their first muscular comparison (with Vince Taylor) and they did the rear lat spread, Dorian’s left lat didn’t flex? Dorian didn’t realize it at the time. Later Dorian and Lee were called for the last comparison.

I guess forcedrep was right.

Hulkster

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #346 on: November 22, 2007, 07:54:23 PM »
dorian more dense?

hahaha

in the early 90's dorian set a standard for dryness and density.

this was eclipsed in the late 90's by Ronnie Coleman:


you can see that while groundbreaking in 93, these photos would have little impact in 99 with the rise of peak ronnie coleman:
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Shockwave

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #347 on: November 22, 2007, 07:55:47 PM »
dorian more dense?

hahaha

in the early 90's dorian set a standard for dryness and density.

this was eclipsed in the late 90's by Ronnie Coleman:


you can see that while groundbreaking in 93, these photos would have little impact in 99 with the rise of peak ronnie coleman:

Sigh.
Yet again you cling to the most muscular like it proves something.
Zealots are always the most annoying.

Hulkster

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #348 on: November 22, 2007, 07:56:18 PM »
even Haney and yates can't hang with peak Ronnie in the back department:
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NeoSeminole

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Re: Dorian -three weeks out: 1993
« Reply #349 on: November 22, 2007, 07:57:46 PM »
Yet again you cling to the most muscular like it proves something.

oh but it does. Show anyone this comparison and ask them who looks more conditioned. ;)