Dorian -three weeks out: 1993

[Shockwave]

That's a new one 

Oh wait...now i remember every time A bber hits the pose the announcer says "you know, this pose really hides a BBer's weaknesses...."  NOT!!!!!!!

Where do you guys come up with this shit, the MM is one of the MAJOR poses. I don't ever recall a thread about who has the best side chest pose.

Hence why I said it's a flash pose.
It's actually my favorite pose, it tends to be the most dramatic.
It also hides flaws, tell me how it doesnt.
It hides structure flaws, and tends to showcase overdeveloped bodyparts. Tell me how Im wrong?

[NeoSeminole]

It hides structure flaws, and tends to showcase overdeveloped bodyparts. Tell me how Im wrong?

the same can be said about every pose.

[NarcissisticDeity]

you can't use a pic from 92 to show Dorian's leg detail and then post a pic from 95 to show his size. That would be like me using Ronnie's famous ab-and-thigh shot from 96 to show his trim, detailed midsection and striated quads, and then use a pic from 03 to show his size. It doesn't work that way. Pick a year and stick with it. Here are more pics of Dorian's quads from 95.





stop lying. I didn't use shit pics of Dorian's hamstrings. You're just mad b/c you realize you're fighting a losing battle. If I really did use such a bad pic, then why don't you post some of your better shots? I'm sure you have them (note: it has to be from 95). If you use another year, then I will only compare pics from whatever year you use for Dorian.

conditioning is subjective if we follow your criteria. Did you touch Ronnie's and Dorian's muscles to see who's harder? No. Did Peter McGough? No. Ask any medical professional how to determine one's conditioning based purely on visual observation, and they will tell you separations and striations.

see above.

you can't use a pic from 92 to show Dorian's leg detail and then post a pic from 95 to show his size. That would be like me using Ronnie's famous ab-and-thigh shot from 96 to show his trim, detailed midsection and striated quads, and then use a pic from 03 to show his size. It doesn't work that way. Pick a year and stick with it. Here are more pics of Dorian's quads from 95.

I didn't use just 92 I used 1993 as well and I used the 92 because its a clearer shot than the rest and now I'll show a pic from 1995 that fully illustrates my point about Dorian's quads separation

stop lying. I didn't use shit pics of Dorian's hamstrings. You're just mad b/c you realize you're fighting a losing battle. If I really did use such a bad pic, then why don't you post some of your better shots? I'm sure you have them (note: it has to be from 95). If you use another year, then I will only compare pics from whatever year you use for Dorian.

No you used shit pictures of Dorian's hamstrings period , the one I posted is from 1993 and its been posted many times and it shows clear development & separation of all the muscles of the hamstrings , inclduing the biceps femoris , semimembranosus and semitendonisosus that silences your bull shit claim dead in its tracks , losing battle my ass I'm not the who who thinks balance & proportion are the same and Dorian's great conditioning was the result of poor skin , and your buddys are really helping your case by posting photoshopped pics of Ronnie and making up quotes my friend I'm still ahead of the game , Yates better balance & proportion , Yates equal or better conditioning , more complete and depending on the year more size and I'm losing? lol

And I will post pics from any year I please its Dorian at his best which is obviously the 93 footage and his LEGS are outstanding hams , calves and quads .

conditioning is subjective if we follow your criteria. Did you touch Ronnie's and Dorian's muscles to see who's harder? No. Did Peter McGough? No. Ask any medical professional how to determine one's conditioning based purely on visual observation, and they will tell you separations and striations.

No conditioning isn't subjective either you're in shape or not , and you can base muscle hardness by appearance live and IN PERSON get it? take a look at Ronnie 2001 compared to Ronnie 2003 tell me which is harder , you don't need to ' touch their muscles ' ( although you may fantasize about that ) and yes you can determine one's conditioning via visual observation however thats not always accurate , because people can be still carrying water and have striations

And you people with this striations nonsense you're acting like Dorian doesn't have a single one and Ronnie is Munzer ( Who Yates destroyed BTW ) Dorian had the following striations ,lower lats , erector spinae , pecs , delts , triceps , obliques , intercostals , glutes , even in his traps ! he also has great separation , sure Ronnie does have some advantages in areas but does Yates , see picture are not an accurate means to ascertain their conditioning and you or I weren't there we have to take it on the authority of others and Dorian's ' grainy ' hard conditioning is legendary and Ronnie's isn't its very safe to assume Dorian's conditioning is better than Ronnies

See pics of Dorian's separation in the quads and hams

[NeoSeminole]

See pics of Dorian's separation in the quads and hams

where are the separations and striations?

this is what cuts look like.

[delta9mda]

i see the left lat. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

ha ha ha ha, what the f*ck? I supported my comment with visual evidence. I can also post quotes like you did.

Peter McGough – Flex Magazine, August 2005

"Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic. He was cut, full, trim in the waist and a monster (proving that when you're supersharp, you look superbig) at 247 pounds. Ronnie sporting that look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."

Jim Stoppani – Flex Magazine, July 2005

"Has anyone ever displayed a more muscular, more shredded, higher-quality physique than a 247-pound Ronnie Coleman at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic?"

Team Flex – Flexonline.com, November 2004

“For whatever faults he may possess, Ronnie Coleman is quite possibly the most impressive physical specimen walking the earth today. Pictures do not do him justice. When he stands relaxed muscle literally hangs from his frame, as if his skin can no longer support the pendulous masses of flesh he has forged with untold tons of iron and steel. It’s difficult to imagine anyone surpassing Big Ron’s level of mass in this, or any, lifetime.”

Ronnie Coleman Fan Site

“When Mr. Coleman showed up at the New York event in October, Mr. McGough says he immediately noticed the difference. “He was really much harder,” he says. “He retained his size, but he had the density and granite hardness."

Sean Toh – http://creditplushealth.org/sport%20celebrities/Ronnie%20Coleman.htm

“At the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, Ronnie won the show and his performance at the time was hailed by many to be his best ever showing. He was 245 pounds at the contest, in extremely tight form, and dense as stone.”

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

ha ha ha ha, what the f*ck? I supported my comment with visual evidence. I can also post quotes like you did.

You can post stating the OBVIOUS and stating what I maintained that at his best Ronnie perhaps matched Dorian for that bone dry & rock hard conditioning albeit SMALLER and I can posts quotes specific to Ronnie VS Dorian can you? 

Lee Priest

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.

Dorian when asked how he would fair against Ronnie in Pro Bodybuilding Weeks specifically stated compared to Ronnie he has better conditioning

And then there is this McGough quote

Peter Mcgough

  "These words should not be taken lightly, because no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows."

couple that went Dorian is known , for his legendary conditioning and Ronnie is NOT sans a few occasions 1998/2001 and your opinion is not only WRONG based on an inaccurate means , its wrong because more than one person say Dorian's conditioning is better specifically compared to Ronnie Coleman , again please don't make ignorant blanket statements

Peter McGough – Flex Magazine, August 2005

"Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic. He was cut, full, trim in the waist and a monster (proving that when you're supersharp, you look superbig) at 247 pounds. Ronnie sporting that look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."

Peter McGough Flex Magazine August 2005

Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage (there was a contender for best-ever that I saw offstage: those crazy photos of sock-footed Dorian Yates taken seven weeks before the 1993 Mr. Olympia) was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic. He was cut, full, trim in the waist and a monster (proving that when you're supersharp, you look superbig) at 244 pounds. Ronnie sporting that look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable and would make any criticisms as redundant as a chocolate squat rack.

Good job not posting the whole quote out of fear  contender is Dorian Yates 269 pounds 

Team Flex – Flexonline.com, November 2004

“For whatever faults he may possess, Ronnie Coleman is quite possibly the most impressive physical specimen walking the earth today. Pictures do not do him justice. When he stands relaxed muscle literally hangs from his frame, as if his skin can no longer support the pendulous masses of flesh he has forged with untold tons of iron and steel. It’s difficult to imagine anyone surpassing Big Ron’s level of mass in this, or any, lifetime.”

mentions NOTHING about him not looking as good in print or video as compared to real life and its talking about size wise  , I posted at least 5 saying specifically Dorian NOT looking as good in print or video so nice try 

Ronnie Coleman Fan Site

“When Mr. Coleman showed up at the New York event in October, Mr. McGough says he immediately noticed the difference. “He was really much harder,” he says. “He retained his size, but he had the density and granite hardness."

I'm assuming this was about his 1998 Olympia win , again stating the obvious he was bone dry & rock hard its old news he was 247 pounds and Yates was 269 pounds bone dry & rock hard big difference

Sean Toh – http://creditplushealth.org/sport%20celebrities/Ronnie%20Coleman.htm

“At the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, Ronnie won the show and his performance at the time was hailed by many to be his best ever showing. He was 245 pounds at the contest, in extremely tight form, and dense as stone.”

More redundant quotes that prove the OBVIOUS something I'm not denying I said there were probably two occasions in which Ronnie perhaps tied Dorian for conditioning 1998/2001 again stating the obvious , it doesn't say a damn thing about that conditioning being better than Dorian

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Biased opinion and technically he's right because Ronnie was 287 pounds in 2003 and with good hardness and he was ' shredded ' at that weight , and no other Mr Olympia was that heavy , the greatest Mr Olympia of all time , extremely subjective and biased , he's also the guy who claimed Ronnie was winning the prejudging at the 2007 Mr Olympia lol enough said

Your quotes did NOTHING for you kid , Priest & Yates both say when specifically compared to Ronnie he has better conditioning , now to be fair I'll say Ronnie equaled it in 1998/2001 but alas he's still down muscular bulk ( 269 vs 244-247 ) balance & proportion , completeness and posing so you're still back to square one

A smart man ( me  ) would say Ronnie is equal to Yates in conditioning ( 1998/2001) and not making blanket statements based on ignorance , bias and inaccurate means , but then again you're not that smart

[NeoSeminole]

You can post stating the OBVIOUS and stating what I maintained that at his best Ronnie perhaps matched Dorian for that bone dry & rock hard conditioning albeit SMALLER and I can posts quotes specific to Ronnie VS Dorian can you? 

Lee Priest

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

"I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best."

I stopped reading after this part. Why should I entertain your nonsense when you don't believe it yourself?

[NarcissisticDeity]

where are the separations and striations?

this is what cuts look like.

Top pic Dorian shows great separation of the vastus lateralis , vastus medialis , and satorius and tensor fasciae late and I'll give you Ronnie has better separation of the rectus femoris but you can see Dorian's not as sharp as Ronnies though


Now couple that with better balance & proportion between the entire leg complex and physique and then any advantage Ronnie may have in separation of the rectus femoris is moot

[NarcissisticDeity]

I stopped reading after this part. Why should I entertain your nonsense when you don't believe it yourself?

Looks like Neo needs to be told what symmetry is  oh and I believe Ronnie does have better ' symmetry ' compared to Dorian or at least one aspect of it , let me teach you Neo what symmetry is and how Ronnie has an advantage in it and so does Dorian

Symmetry in the bodybuilding context means left right balance , balance & proportion , small waist & hips and small joints , now seeing nothing in nature is exact in terms of symmetry in the bodybuilding context it means how well the left & right size match up in terms of size , one's symmetry would be way off if he had one bicep 16' and the other 18'

Dorian has a clear advantage in terms of muscle balance & proportion , again Dorian stated this on Pro Bodybuilding Weekly when specifically compared to Ronnie and I posted the quote from an IFBB judge praising Dorian's outstanding symmetry

Now This is the part Ronnie has an advantage in , naturally small waist & hips a better taper and smaller joints no in this part Priest was right , just like he was right in claiming Dorian had better conditioning

So once again you're corrected by the master and you still have much to learn grasshopper 

[NarcissisticDeity]

269 pounds bone dry & granite hard no flaws what so ever , massive everywhere , complete from head to toe   unrivaled balance & proportion

Ronnie's never in his career had this combo ever then again who has?

[EL Mariachi]

ronnie looks skinny comparedto yates, imagine compared to nasser el sonbaty?

[IceCold]

the bottom line is that ronnie never matched the comob of size and conditioning that yates did.

[IceCold]

neo likes to post quotes that only reflect his point of view.

where are the quotes from greg merrit and shawn from flex saying this person has the best upper body ever - not ronnie.

[NeoSeminole]

Top pic Dorian shows great separation of the vastus lateralis , vastus medialis , and satorius and tensor fasciae late and I'll give you Ronnie has better separation of the rectus femoris but you can see Dorian's not as sharp as Ronnies though

no, the pic you posted only shows good separation in the vastus medialis and sartorius muscles.

Now couple that with better balance & proportion between the entire leg complex and physique and then any advantage Ronnie may have in separation of the rectus femoris is moot

Ronnie's thighs have Dorian's beat in muscular bulk, separations, striations, and shape. This more than makes up for a lack of balance in his legs.

[Iceman1981]

i see the left lat. 

Everyone doesn't  

[NeoSeminole]

Symmetry in the bodybuilding context means left right balance , balance & proportion , small waist & hips and small joints , now seeing nothing in nature is exact in terms of symmetry in the bodybuilding context it means how well the left & right size match up in terms of size , one's symmetry would be way off if he had one bicep 16' and the other 18'

what rubbish! Symmetry refers to left, right, top and bottom balance. Nowhere does it mention having a trim waist and small joints. That's something you just made up to support your argument. A bodybuilder can have a wide waist and still be as symmetrical as a another with a smaller waist if his shoulder-to-waist ratio is the same.

[NeoSeminole]

269 pounds bone dry & granite hard no flaws what so ever , massive everywhere , complete from head to toe   unrivaled balance & proportion

Ronnie at 287 lbs (almost 20 lbs heavier) and shredded to the bone. Unrivaled combo of mass, definition, and symmetry.

[NeoSeminole]

neo likes to post quotes that only reflect his point of view.

where are the quotes from greg merrit and shawn from flex saying this person has the best upper body ever - not ronnie.

how is that relevant to this discussion?

[bizzy]

Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.

There you go and its pretty self explanatory why Dorian is more dense because he'c carry less intramuscular fat in his muscles especially compared to Ronnie 2003 there is just a handful of times Ronnie was referred as bone dry & rock hard and that was in 1998 and 2001 ASC other than that the heavier Ronnie became the more his conditioning suffered hence 1999 despite what you and Hulkster claim , 2000 huge and soft , etc , etc

First of all, thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
Let's take some pics with Ronnie and Dorian @ their debatable respective bests 93-99
and compare. I'm trying to use good pictures of both with good lighting
on most of the shots. Dorian is more dense by your definition because he has less intramuscular fat
than Ronnie in 1999. The Muscular Development Compulsory Round is judged by 3 different
criteria:
    * DENSITY is the depth and fullness of the muscle bellies.
    * SEPARATION is the delineation between the muscle groups.
    * DEFINITION is the absence of fat making the muscles clearly visible through the skin surface.
Let's assume Dorian is more dense than Ronnie. That is 1/3 of the muscular development judging.
Does Yates have more separation or definition than Coleman?
I'll post the pics and let the people decide...
This first pic is standing relaxed and there are many of Dorian that are
very unflattering. I took the very best one and lightened it because it was
very dark and you really couldn't see how great he looked in it.     

[England_1]

I still can't believe NeoSemen thinks that Flex and Dorian had the same sized heads. I guess he is blind 

[bizzy]

...

[bizzy]

...

[bizzy]

...

[bizzy]

...

[bizzy]

...