interesting news on Iraq...I expect full crickets on these...

[militarymuscle69]

Thought some good new might lighten your day

U.S. Says Attacks in Iraq Fell to Feb. 2006 Level

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

Fewer Roadside Bombs in Iraq, U.S. Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/world/middleeast/16iraq.html?n=Top/News/World/Countries%20and%20Territories/Iraq

For Bush, Advances But Not Approval
The war in Iraq seems to have taken a turn for the better and the opposition at home has failed in all efforts to impose its own strategy. North Korea is dismantling its nuclear program. The budget deficit is falling. A new attorney general has been confirmed despite objections from the left

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/18/AR2007111801449.html?nav%3Dhcmodule&sub=new

Baghdad Comes Alive
For the first time in years, the Iraqi capital is showing signs of life. But the calm is all too fragile, and it's an opportunity the government cannot afford to miss.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/70990

[240 is Back]

Good.  Progress is happening.

Is this little progress worth 4000 American lives?  Fuck no.

Is "a little more Baghdad nightlife" worth 4000 families who lost a member?  Fuck no.

Is it worth it to you?

[gcb]

You stay there long enough things are bound to improve ... when did this war start again?

[Deicide]

You stay there long enough things are bound to improve ... when did this war start again?

1991 is when it started. This is just a continuation. Iraq is the new 'we can't win but we will stay because...we have to, wannabe Vietnam war'....

[militarymuscle69]

Good.  Progress is happening.

Is this little progress worth 4000 American lives?  Fuck no.

Is "a little more Baghdad nightlife" worth 4000 families who lost a member?  Fuck no.

Is it worth it to you?

If i didn't think it worth it I would get out....I wouldn't have done 2 tours

[240 is Back]

If i didn't think it worth it I would get out....I wouldn't have done 2 tours

In your mind, more nightlife in Baghdad is worth 4000 dead American soldiers and 30,000 wounded AMerican soldiers.

In my mind, the value of our soldiers outweighs their desire to go see a movie at 9 pm, or any other night life.

That's just me loving America more than Iraq, and valuing American LIVES more than Iraqi freedoms.

We're free to have different value systems!

[militarymuscle69]

In your mind, more nightlife in Baghdad is worth 4000 dead American soldiers and 30,000 wounded AMerican soldiers.

In my mind, the value of our soldiers outweighs their desire to go see a movie at 9 pm, or any other night life.

That's just me loving America more than Iraq, and valuing American LIVES more than Iraqi freedoms.

We're free to have different value systems!

I;m not going to get into it to much with you because you know that Iam not concerned with night life in Iraq. I am concerned with security in the region ahich I believe translates to security at home...I didn't mention AQ so don't get excited..they will attack when they want no matter where in the world we are. But a secure, semidemocratic iraq will only be a blesing to us in the long run

[240 is Back]

I;m not going to get into it to much with you because you know that Iam not concerned with night life in Iraq. I am concerned with security in the region ahich I believe translates to security at home...I didn't mention AQ so don't get excited..they will attack when they want no matter where in the world we are. But a secure, semidemocratic iraq will only be a blesing to us in the long run

Well, the number of insurgents has gone up 400% in the last 4 years.

Weird one there.  Usually when you lose 30000 limbs and 4000 lives, and spend 500 bil, you have LESS enemy soldiers, not four times MORE.

So no offence mm69, but if youre representative of a group who considers the enemy quadrupling his numbers a "success", well, then your opinion on other things is probably pretty weak too.  No offense or anything.  I don't want to argue, I support the war too.  I just support having Iraqi police lose the lives daily, not our brave troops. 

[militarymuscle69]

Well, the number of insurgents has gone up 400% in the last 4 years.

Weird one there.  Usually when you lose 30000 limbs and 4000 lives, and spend 500 bil, you have LESS enemy soldiers, not four times MORE.

So no offence mm69, but if youre representative of a group who considers the enemy quadrupling his numbers a "success", well, then your opinion on other things is probably pretty weak too.  No offense or anything.  I don't want to argue, I support the war too.  I just support having Iraqi police lose the lives daily, not our brave troops. 

I don't care what you think of my opinion....but the news is everywhere the last few weeks 240...you were all about it when the news was bad, maybe time to swallow your pride...and I took all of those stories from lib papers...

[240 is Back]

I don't care what you think of my opinion....but the news is everywhere the last few weeks 240...you were all about it when the news was bad, maybe time to swallow your pride...and I took all of those stories from lib papers...

youre trying to act like you got a personal win over lib newspapers.

what's it really about?

you think 4000 AMerican lives and 30000 American limbs were well spent.
I do not.

I think that UN and iraqi fources should have been used for the dangerous stuff.
You do not.

I'm all for the mission, and yes, it's improving after 4 and a half years, super.
But I value the life of my countrymen and would prefer that iraqis shoot iraqis, than us.

[Deicide]

I don't care what you think of my opinion....but the news is everywhere the last few weeks 240...you were all about it when the news was bad, maybe time to swallow your pride...and I took all of those stories from lib papers...

It's an illegal war and was entered into for purely imperialistic and economic reasons.

Have you read Michael Scheuer? Former head of the CIA team unit? He has stated that the best thing the US can do for its security is to leave the region...

BTW, I am not a Democrat but an Independent with libertarian tendencies...

[militarymuscle69]

youre trying to act like you got a personal win over lib newspapers.

what's it really about?

you think 4000 AMerican lives and 30000 American limbs were well spent.
I do not.

I think that UN and iraqi fources should have been used for the dangerous stuff.
You do not.

I'm all for the mission, and yes, it's improving after 4 and a half years, super.
But I value the life of my countrymen and would prefer that iraqis shoot iraqis, than us.

The news is a personal win..but not over news papers...it makes tha chances of me dying in Iraq less when I return...face it we aren't leaving so yes I PERSONALLY have a ton invested in good news from Iraq. When I graduate another class tomorrow and send them to the "real world", I can send them knowing that violence is diminishing....I'll tell you what, find me ONE of those 34,000 you talk about that didn't join the military on a volunteer basis...

[240 is Back]

The news is a personal win..but not over news papers...it makes tha chances of me dying in Iraq less when I return...face it we aren't leaving so yes I PERSONALLY have a ton invested in good news from Iraq. When I graduate another class tomorrow and send them to the "real world", I can send them knowing that violence is diminishing....I'll tell you what, find me ONE of those 34,000 you talk about that didn't join the military on a volunteer basis...

it's an all-volunteer service

but just as I put a leash on my dog when he runs into the street, i wish our leaders woul have leashed up our men, and let the iraqis soak up the bullets as we cleared towns.

of course it's safer, a bit.  Of course it's all volunteer to be there.  But there's really no reason why our men should be dying, with so many unemployeed iraqis.  Let them take the risk.  CHances are, the motivation for foreign jihadists would be way less if they had to shoot an iraqi, and not an american. 

[militarymuscle69]

it's an all-volunteer service

but just as I put a leash on my dog when he runs into the street, i wish our leaders woul have leashed up our men, and let the iraqis soak up the bullets as we cleared towns.

of course it's safer, a bit.  Of course it's all volunteer to be there.  But there's really no reason why our men should be dying, with so many unemployeed iraqis.  Let them take the risk.  CHances are, the motivation for foreign jihadists would be way less if they had to shoot an iraqi, and not an american. 

I know that you agree with have a vested interest in what happens from this point out in Iraq...do you really think we can trust the iraqi's to take care of it for us? A safe iraq, combined with generations of future oil make it better for our childern, and thier children

[Decker]

For Bush, Advances But Not Approval
The war in Iraq seems to have taken a turn for the better and the opposition at home has failed in all efforts to impose its own strategy. North Korea is dismantling its nuclear program. The budget deficit is falling. A new attorney general has been confirmed despite objections from the left

Put all the lipstick on this Iraq pig that you want.  It's not worth one american life.  It destroyed the lives of millions of Iraqis in terms of casualties, displacement, loss of businesses and forfeiture of native infrastructure.  It's costing the US hundreds of billions of dollars.

But the violence is down to 2006 levels.  That is weak.

And it's no justification for the ongoing war crime.
__________________

The US had no budget deficit until Bush created a debt so crushing that it reappeared.

__________________

And now we have an Attorney General that was an expert in presiding over terrorists cases...yet he couldn't even answer the simple legal question of whether waterboarding was torture.  He's Bush toady.

___________________

I would hope that diplomacy would work with North Korea.  So far it hasn't.  We'll see if the inspectors are let in to the country at the end of the year.

[militarymuscle69]

face it you want us to lose, and you hate seeing good news...

[Decker]

face it you want us to lose, and you hate seeing good news...

Lose to whom?

The Iraqi resisters that we are kicking the shit out of?

Or do you still think that Iraq is the central front on the war on Al Qaeda Terror?

That's just not the case.

What do we lose by leaving Iraq? (I mean besides the hundreds of billions of dollars we wasted there)

[militarymuscle69]

Lose to whom?

The Iraqi resisters that we are kicking the shit out of?

Or do you still think that Iraq is the central front on the war on Al Qaeda Terror?

That's just not the case.

What do we lose by leaving Iraq? (I mean besides the hundreds of billions of dollars we wasted there)

You are so delusional...first i  have NEVER said that Iraq is the fron of the war on terror...he entire world is the fron on terror...but the world will be better off for removing Saddam...Even you can't argue that

[Decker]

You are so delusional...first i  have NEVER said that Iraq is the fron of the war on terror...he entire world is the fron on terror...but the world will be better off for removing Saddam...Even you can't argue that

If the entire world is the front on the war on terror, then why did we attack Iraq?

The world would be better off with Hussein still in power.

I think that's undeniable. 

For the billions spent, the lives lost, the destruction caused, the swelling of Al Qaeda's ranks worldwide, I don't see how you justify the invasion.

Without Hussein in power, Iraq is in a civil war.  With him in power, it isn't and middle east is not destabalized, we still have almost 4000 soldiers alive and 500 billion in our accounts.

[ATHEIST]

The world would be better off with Hussein still in power.

thats a selfish perspective if i ever heard one.

[militarymuscle69]

everyone else on this board already knew what a moron Decker was....now he just solidified that stance.

[Mars]

thats a selfish perspective if i ever heard one.

why? most people had a good life under Saddam. most of them loved their leader.

[Deicide]

everyone else on this board already knew what a moron Decker was....now he just solidified that stance.

Do people in the military realise that the Chinese are financing this war for us? We borrow 3 billion USD a day from China so we can fight this war. Independent of right and wrong, the US is going broke and Bush has accumulated more debt than all the presidents combined since WWII. Even if the future president wants to stay the non-existent course, we will have to pull out when we go bankrupt.

[militarymuscle69]

Do people in the military realise that the Chinese are financing this war for us? We borrow 3 billion USD a day from China so we can fight this war. Independent of right and wrong, the US is going broke and Bush has accumulated more debt than all the presidents combined since WWII. Even if the future president wants to stay the non-existent course, we will have to pull out when we go bankrupt.

that will never happen....not in any of our lifetimes

[Deicide]

that will never happen....not in any of our lifetimes

Boom!