Mr & Mrs.Cutler in Thanksgiving day

[the Pure Majestic]

I doubt anyone here has taken pharmacology or even researched pain killers on the net?  Sounds like you may have.

Serious question:  Are Advil , Motrin, and Ibuprofen very hard on the kidneys/liver? In what doses? And how do they compare to heavy cycles of anabolics ... or diuretics?

Advil, Motrin, and Ibuprofen are all Ibuprofen. 
Advil and Motrin are both name brands of the drug Ibuprofen.  Remember that and laugh the next time some idiot tells you that they have to take Advil, because Motrin "does nothing for them."

Ibuprofen is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug). 
They can cause kidney failure, most typically in those with pre-existing mild kidney disease. 
The recommended dose is about 1-3g per day max, depending if there is physician monitoring. 

It is actually metabolized by the liver in both phases, but isn't largely liver toxic.  I believe the kidney problems come from the metabolites (been a while since school....long while), but this is the primary concern as far as organ damage. 

Ulcers are also common. 

I would guess that the advil sped up the kidney degeneration in Tom.  The Advil is a very likely culprit in the ulcers as well. 


I would surmise that the chronic IV usage of cocaine and nubain were both more harmful in the grand scheme of things however.

[YoungBlood]

Why did the writer call you "Angry Bob"?

That was a nickname that was given to Bob. If I remember the story right, Bob was standing in line a grocery store and a little kid asked why Bob was so big or something like that. Bob told the kid and somehow the kid replied to the effect of "Why aren't you called 'Angry Bob' or something like that?" And the name stuck.
Pretty vague, but something along those lines.

[Mr. Zimbabwe]

Ibuprofen is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug). 
They can cause kidney failure, most typically in those with pre-existing mild kidney disease.  The recommended dose is about 1-3g per day max, depending if there is physician monitoring. 

Pre-existing?  Meaning genetic predisposition?  1-3mg sounds like a lot!  I never take more than two 400mg tabs if I have pain.

Would Vicodin be a better option for bodybuilders?

Ulcers are also common.  I would guess that the advil sped up the kidney degeneration in Tom.  The Advil is a very likely culprit in the ulcers as well. 

Are the ulcers related to the Colitis that we see commonly in bodybuilders?

I would surmise that the chronic IV usage of cocaine and nubain were both more harmful in the grand scheme of things however.

Nubain use (sadly) seems common too.   But aren't injectables easier on the liver/kidneys than orals?

Thanks for your info!

[the choad]

Would Vicodin be a better option for bodybuilders?

vicoden has Tylenol in it, and that stuff is liver toxic in high dosages..Also it's addicting as hell..

[the Pure Majestic]

Pre-existing?  Meaning genetic predisposition?  1-3mg sounds like a lot!  I never take more than two 400mg tabs if I have pain.

Would Vicodin be a better option for bodybuilders?

Are the ulcers related to the Colitis that we see commonly in bodybuilders?

Nubain use (sadly) seems common too.   But aren't injectables easier on the liver/kidneys than orals?

Thanks for your info!

Pre-existing genetic factors (FSGS) would definitely make a difference.
Even taking 4 200mg tablets twice a day won't cause any real damage.  You have to be mega dosing NSAIDs for a long time for major repercussions.

Vicodin is so high in acetominophen that the acetominophen becomes the danger.  You can take a good amount of hydrocodone for longer periods of time and be fine. 
But, as your body adapts to that drug, you'll need higher doses to feel good (which is why most people take vicodin.  Hydrocodone isn't that great of a pain med.  The acetominophen is doing most of the work) and the 'legal' portion of the vicodin is what does people in.

I would think the colitis is at least somewhat related to the diet.  All the high fibre foods like brown rice, with the surrounding husk, and the like that can damage the intestinal lining is probably a factor in the colitis.

Nubain is just a way to get stoned without calories.  That is all it is. 
A bbing diet is boring as shit.  Eat all day, train, don't do anything.  It goes by better when you're stoned.  Give an uneducated bloke the chance to think that his drug (nubain) can someone "help" him (train harder), and the abuse will soon folllow. 

The Cocaine has many effects.  Cocaine causes various forms of cellular necrosis across the board. 
There is a type of heart dysfunction of reduced ejection fraction that is a Cocaine induced cardiomyopathy.  Reduced heart function is closely related to poor kidney function.

[Van_Bilderass]

I would think the colitis is at least somewhat related to the diet.  All the high fibre foods like brown rice, with the surrounding husk, and the like that can damage the intestinal lining is probably a factor in the colitis.

The ulcerative colitis is an autoimmune disease, right? And I think the etiology is unknown (?) - I haven't seen anything about diet being the cause. Being that steroids affect immunity could they trigger the disease, or make it blossom earlier than had you not used steroids?

[Brutal_1]

The ulcerative colitis is an autoimmune disease, right? And I think the etiology is unknown (?) - I haven't seen anything about diet being the cause. Being that steroids affect immunity could they trigger the disease, or make it blossom earlier than had you not used steroids?

That's because diet isn't the cause. 

You're right, UC has an unknown etiology, but the concept behind the disease is simple...with an inflamed colon a patient will suffer from malabsorption/malnutrition.  Any blood thinner would've complicated colitis more than anabolic steroid use, in someone who already has UC.


Grant:
Please be careful of the "advise" you pick up on this board.  Even now, I believe tpm's posts are wikipedia/pubmed driven and are comical at best!  Just look at your initial question about ibuprofen compared to AAS/diuretics on the kidneys....all he did was spit out blind facts about said drugs and missed your question entirely. 

[Van_Bilderass]

That's because diet isn't the cause. 

You're right, UC has an unknown etiology, but the concept behind the disease is simple...with an inflamed colon a patient will suffer from malabsorption/malnutrition.  Any blood thinner would've complicated colitis more than anabolic steroid use, in someone who already has UC.

Someone told me this:

"androgens promote the secretion of Th2 type cytokines that are found in association with ulcerative colitis"

And referred to this abstract:

Acta Physiol Hung 2000;87(4):355-72

Immunology of inflammatory bowel diseases.

Lakatos L.

Gastroenterology Unit, Cholnoky Ferenc Hospital, Veszprem, Hungary.

The pathogenesis of inflammatory diseases involves complex interactions among genetic, environmental and immunologic factors, where the immune system plays a crucial role. The initiating factor may be a commonly present environmental antigen, but the defective mucosal immune response can't downregulate the inflammatory process, the resulting in chronic inflammation and tissue damage. The abnormal amplification of the immune system seems more likely to be a secondary and not a primary factor in the disease. IBD patients exhibit abnormalities in epithelial antigen presentation, and in the cellular and humoral immune system. The role of autoimmunity is unclear in IBD. The inflammatory mediator production and balance is also altered in IBD. Crohn's disease is characterised by a Th1 cytokine profile, while ulcerative colitis is characterised rather by a Th2 cytokine profile Recent advances in the understanding of the pathogenesis of IBD led to major changes in the treatment of the disease. The newer agents target the key mediators involved in the inflammatory process.

And this:


http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/283/5406/1277?ijkey=JsdA5F3s0DHFo

[the choad]

Pre-existing genetic factors (FSGS) would definitely make a difference.
Even taking 4 200mg tablets twice a day won't cause any real damage.  You have to be mega dosing NSAIDs for a long time for major repercussions.

Vicodin is so high in acetominophen that the acetominophen becomes the danger.  You can take a good amount of hydrocodone for longer periods of time and be fine. 
But, as your body adapts to that drug, you'll need higher doses to feel good (which is why most people take vicodin.  Hydrocodone isn't that great of a pain med.  The acetominophen is doing most of the work) and the 'legal' portion of the vicodin is what does people in.

I would think the colitis is at least somewhat related to the diet.  All the high fibre foods like brown rice, with the surrounding husk, and the like that can damage the intestinal lining is probably a factor in the colitis.

Nubain is just a way to get stoned without calories.  That is all it is. 
A bbing diet is boring as shit.  Eat all day, train, don't do anything.  It goes by better when you're stoned.  Give an uneducated bloke the chance to think that his drug (nubain) can someone "help" him (train harder), and the abuse will soon folllow. 

The Cocaine has many effects.  Cocaine causes various forms of cellular necrosis across the board. 
There is a type of heart dysfunction of reduced ejection fraction that is a Cocaine induced cardiomyopathy.  Reduced heart function is closely related to poor kidney function.

[plutonianman]

To all the smart guys here making retarded comments:

Tom has been on dialisys for the last few years now....he can't train much (as it makes it worse for his health)...can't take in much protein (ditto)...and is focusing on their business and staying healthy...

He's always been ghostly white...nothing different there....isn't wearing a "affliction" shirt...it's a new "Max Muscle" shirt Dave had him throw on for a pic.

He doesn't care about being big anymore, doesn't come on the boards, and isn't going to see any of the ignorant comments being made by some of you....

And if anyone else thinks they'll be "looking large" sandwiched between me and Jay....by all means...come on down to MM next time Jay's in town and we'll be sure to post your pic right here on Getbig....



BTW...while you're there....BUY SOMETHING!!


One more thing...anymore degrading comments on Jay's wife, and I'll not only delete your post, but your entire account as well....maybe some of you vets of the board can explain to the rookies/ noobs...why that is.

It sounds like he has been through a lot in the last couple of years. It would be nice to hear him on your Bodybuilding talk show someday....

[Brutal_1]

Someone told me this:

"androgens promote the secretion of Th2 type cytokines that are found in association with ulcerative colitis"

And referred to this abstract:

And this:


http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/283/5406/1277?ijkey=JsdA5F3s0DHFo

I've never heard that...hmmm


If this is true then androgens would in fact promote the "inflammatory" response induced by Th2, IgM and IgE antibodies, leading to a greater amount of differentiation of mast cells i.e. INFLAMMATION 

So yeah, they would in fact excacerbate the problem, rather than help it.  Again, this would be in a pre existing case though, as a rise in Th2 would not cause UC.  But once UC has developed, AAS would cause a greater inflammatory response.

Good to know for anyone diagnosed with IBD or UC...stay off the juice!

[the Pure Majestic]

That's because diet isn't the cause. 

You're right, UC has an unknown etiology, but the concept behind the disease is simple...with an inflamed colon a patient will suffer from malabsorption/malnutrition.  Any blood thinner would've complicated colitis more than anabolic steroid use, in someone who already has UC.


Grant:
Please be careful of the "advise" you pick up on this board.  Even now, I believe tpm's posts are wikipedia/pubmed driven and are comical at best!  Just look at your initial question about ibuprofen compared to AAS/diuretics on the kidneys....all he did was spit out blind facts about said drugs and missed your question entirely. 

You are quite the Brutal one, aren't ya!

I have never studied colitis, so I made the guess that there could be some dietary impact to the progression of the disease.  If you're a top researcher in the field of intestinal disease, you probably have better information than me. 

As for facts being "blind," that is an interesting point of view. 
You're welcome to cross-reference anything I say with any website.  You'll find no plagiarism in my posts. 

Either way, it seems Van_Bilderass has already shown your ignorance on UC, so anything I would say is a moot point by now.

[Matt C]

Tom was very rude when he used to post on musclemayhem.

Once a very good amateur bodybuilder posted his pictures and Tom replied:

"Swimmers on your mark...one...two...three ...*tweet*"

Discuss.

[YoungBlood]

Once a very good amateur bodybuilder posted his pictures and Tom replied:

"Swimmers on your mark...one...two...three ...*tweet*"

Discuss.

That was directed at McFarland.

[Matt C]

That was directed at McFarland.

haha, you remember that?

Remember when TP lied and said he didn't post his shit talking about an MMA champion of the time?  I exposed him in a thread where he called out Guy Grundy for publishing those comments in Musclemag under my "lucerne" account.

Bob of course lied for Tom and put the heat on getbig stating that somebody posted those comments under Tom's name back when Ron used to allow guests to post on here.  It's funny how there were multiple members who had read those comments by Tom before he deleted them who had not even HEARD OF getbig before. 

[McFarland]

haha, you remember that?

Remember when TP lied and said he didn't post his shit talking about an MMA champion of the time?  I exposed him in a thread where he called out Guy Grundy for publishing those comments in Musclemag under my "lucerne" account.

Bob of course lied for Tom and put the heat on getbig stating that somebody posted those comments under Tom's name back when Ron used to allow guests to post on here.  It's funny how there were multiple members who had read those comments by Tom before he deleted them who had not even HEARD OF getbig before. 

Oh they did alot of crooked shit like that.  All the deletions and such.  Tom told me today at the gym that I'm "still the biggest douchebag he's ever met" so he does indeed still read the boards. 

[Chick]

haha, you remember that?

Remember when TP lied and said he didn't post his shit talking about an MMA champion of the time?  I exposed him in a thread where he called out Guy Grundy for publishing those comments in Musclemag under my "lucerne" account.

Bob of course lied for Tom and put the heat on getbig stating that somebody posted those comments under Tom's name back when Ron used to allow guests to post on here.  It's funny how there were multiple members who had read those comments by Tom before he deleted them who had not even HEARD OF getbig before. 

don't be so naive my friend....

[Matt C]

Oh they did alot of crooked shit like that.  All the deletions and such.  Tom told me today at the gym that I'm "still the biggest douchebag he's ever met" so he does indeed still read the boards. 

LMAO!  Man...

I guess some people will forever remain the same.  I would think being so close to death would have humbled Tom.  My piece of shit grandfather beat his wife and kids for years and when he had a massive heart attack in 1990, he remained to this day...a piece of shit...some things never change.

don't be so niave my friend....

I saw the thread on mayhem too.  I am intelligent enough to consciously note something like someone using "Tom Prince" as a handle here on getbig.  Craig Titus had posted as a guest on here numerous times, but not Tom.

[noc]

doesn't come on the boards, and isn't going to see any of the ignorant comments being made by some of you....

and doesn't read the boards anyway...

Haha calm down 'bob'

We get it.

He doesn't read the board.

Just like Cutler doesn't? 

[McFarland]

"hi thomas,,,"   

 

[Chick]

LMAO!  Man...

I guess some people will forever remain the same.  I would think being so close to death would have humbled Tom.  My piece of shit grandfather beat his wife and kids for years and when he had a massive heart attack in 1990, he remained to this day...a piece of shit...some things never change.

I saw the thread on mayhem too.  I am intelligent enough to consciously note something like someone using "Tom Prince" as a handle here on getbig.  Craig Titus had posted as a guest on here numerous times, but not Tom.

I'm not going to rehash the entire thing...again. JUst like 10 people at an accident all seem to see different things...

The post wasn't from Tom, it was from someone using the same handle with a period (.) at the ...

Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out...Tom hated Craigs guts.

[McFarland]

I'm not going to rehash the entire thing...again. JUst like 10 people at an accident all seem to see different things...

The post wasn't from Tom, it was from someone using the same handle with a period (.) at the ...

Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out...Tom hated Craigs guts.

Worse than mine? 

[Chick]

Haha calm down 'bob'

We get it.

He doesn't read the board.

Just like Cutler doesn't? 

you dont have to put "Bob" in quotes...it actually is my name.

Jay doesnt read the boards...he knew nothing of the thread, knew nothing of any feletions, and has never mentioned it before or after

[Matt C]

Haha calm down 'bob'

We get it.

He doesn't read the board.

Just like Cutler doesn't? 

Jay posted as "Victorious Jay" in 2003 after his series of grand prix victories as a guest for a brief period but had a meltdown and left when IFBBWannaB ("U don't BB for life, BB is your life !!") started a thread saying that Jay had too much oil in his delts.  In Jay's final post here in 2003, he posted a picture of himself doing front raises with dumbbells for shoulders clearly showing the striations in his delts.  I'm not sure if that was actually Jay though, but he posted under his real name for a brief period, before leaving again citing that he did not have enough time for the boards:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=15998

[Chick]

Worse than mine? 

Oh yeah......not even close.