If you are determining if someone is on Steroids....

[KillerMonk]

not too many guys can get much over 200 - 225 lean without drugs.Just my opinion..I'm sure there are guys out there, but if you are 230 + and very low BF you are suspect(unless you are pretty tall)


 

Agreed 6ft at 225 is my natural genetic limit Lean.

[DK II]

Are you young man? Good on you for coming out on the Worldwide Web

meltdown.

[Theoak*]

Agreed 6ft at 225 is my natural genetic limit Lean.

there is  a difference between natural 225 and a juiced 225, the body compoistion just changes more muscles become pronounced.

[KillerMonk]

there is  a difference between natural 225 and a juiced 225, the body compoistion just changes more muscles become pronounced.

Exactly when i was on Deca and Stanazol at 225 i was leaner and the skin became paper thin and more graininess to the muscle a very different look to me natural at 225.

[Knives]

not too many guys can get much over 200 - 225 lean without drugs.Just my opinion..I'm sure there are guys out there, but if you are 230 + and very low BF you are suspect(unless you are pretty tall)


 

You're being conservative.  Over 190-200 lean (unless you are very tall) is usually juiced.

[BigCypriate]

You're being conservative.  Over 190-200 lean (unless you are very tall) is usually juiced.

your mom is juicy

[The Wizard]

Yeah sure, as if these guys didn't juice....

Hint: If it's professional and/or on TV, they are juiced.

You ever seen the delts on Olympic (Drug tested) gymnasts?

[KillerMonk]

You ever seen the delts on Olympic (Drug tested) gymnasts?

Agreed there minature BBs with no legs.

[genrommel74]

You ever seen the delts on Olympic (Drug tested) gymnasts?

Gh, insulin

[coltrane]

rear delts....

they stick out and look strange.  Yes, gymnasts have great delts sometimes, but you can spot the difference.  And don't be surprised that some gymnast juice.  To think otherwise would be embarrasingly ignorant

[KillerMonk]

Gh, insulin

Marion Jones beat the Drug test

[The Wizard]

rear delts....

they stick out and look strange.  Yes, gymnasts have great delts sometimes, but you can spot the difference.  And don't be surprised that some gymnast juice.  To think otherwise would be embarrasingly ignorant

So to you guys all natural bodybuilders and gymnasts or uys in your gyms with any significant delt development are on drugs? No wonder you are under developed and will remain so.

[coltrane]

So to you guys all natural bodybuilders and gymnasts or uys in your gyms with any significant delt development are on drugs? No wonder you are under developed and will remain so.

calm down slappy....i'm just giving my opinion answer to the question raised in this thread. 

I have (or at least think) great delts for being a natty...and yes, i've seen some great gymnast delts.....but go check out the delts, especially the rear delts,  on a seasoned juicer and report back.

[BigCypriate]

So to you guys all natural bodybuilders and gymnasts or uys in your gyms with any significant delt development are on drugs? No wonder you are under developed and will remain so.

go away

[coltrane]

go away

i second that.

[The Wizard]

i second that.

Man am I owned now after those 3 posts 

[coltrane]

Man am I owned now after those 3 posts 

go away

[Monster_Everything]

You're being conservative.  Over 190-200 lean (unless you are very tall) is usually juiced.

epic low expectations...

[The Wizard]

go away

Nobody kicks sand in your face do they Coltrane  

[The Wizard]

epic low expectations...

I couldn't agree more.

[coltrane]

Nobody kicks sand in your face do they Coltrane  

go away Sementaste

[The Wizard]

go away Sementaste

Thankyou. That one made me laugh.

[atr911]

They're usually the guys with testicular atrophy.  Just ask 'em I'm sure they won't mind letting you have a grab.


But in all seriousness.  What fucking business is it of yours and why do you care?  So you can justify lifting less weight than them or looking smaller than them?  Do you go to the gym to be bigger than everyone?  To impress the ladies?  Or to challenge yourself to be the best/biggest/strongest you can within your personal guidelines (i.e. drug usage, total invested time etc). 

The only people who should care if someone is on crank are those in amateur sport where steroids are not supposed to be used and give a SERIOUSLY unfair advantage to an athlete who uses.  Even in cases like these, unless you can prove it via testing, GET OVER IT. 

[RadOncDoc]

disproportionate growth of traps/deltoids; backne; significant vascularity; male-pattern baldness; low bodyfat but still have swollen (and often red) face; constant fluctuations in weight (especially for newbies who don't know about PCT); and most importantly: big, cut, and not black.

[Overload]

disproportionate growth of traps/deltoids; backne; significant vascularity; male-pattern baldness; low bodyfat swollen (and often red) face; constant fluctuations in weight (especially for newbies who don't know about PCT); and most importantly: big, cut, and not black.

Good info.

the easiest way to tell is the bloated/red face. i've seen guys at 8% bodyfat and their cheeks stick out to their ears. 

Bright red face, neck and upper chest...