Author Topic: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...  (Read 34999 times)

Deicide

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #100 on: December 01, 2007, 10:05:22 PM »
owned   ;D

Yes, I owned his arse big time! ;D
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The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #101 on: December 01, 2007, 10:39:06 PM »
owned   ;D

owned   ;D

Huh??? Owned???


Was it the fact that in his statement he actually expressed the Majesty of God the Creator by naming some of the Galaxies, etc that he can't explain?????

Pay attention son, ain't nobody "ownin'" me!

Remember, I HAVE an answer as to how the Universe was Created!

Now go back to sucking your thumb and while trying to understand the complexities of these posts.


Deicide

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #102 on: December 01, 2007, 11:24:37 PM »
Huh??? Owned???


Was it the fact that in his statement he actually expressed the Majesty of God the Creator by naming some of the Galaxies, etc that he can't explain?????

Pay attention son, ain't nobody "ownin'" me!

Remember, I HAVE an answer as to how the Universe was Created!

Now go back to sucking your thumb and while trying to understand the complexities of these posts.



With a response like that, what can I say? You HAVE BEEN OWNED.... ;D
I hate the State.

Hedgehog

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2007, 08:50:11 AM »
You are right in saying that Christianity is based on Faith. That is absolutely true. I BELIEVE in Jesus Christ the Lord God and His Holy Spirit. AMEN!

I am a Chistian that not only believe's, but KNOWS. God has proven Himself true by the FACTS in the Bible and in my life.

So if I'm confronted with evidence that is proven, such as miracles and Jesus being raised from the dead, and I accept that evidence, I am a liar???

Evidence that God "is": YOU being "CREATED" and Jesus rising from the dead!

I challenge you my friend, to provide me evidence beyond a reasonable doubt the God DOES NOT exist!

There is no evidence of Jesus being raised from the dead.

If you claim this, you are a liar, or just not scholared in the Bible.

There are however testimonials of Jesus being raised from the dead.

Big difference.

Testimonials - not evidence.

So I ask you once again, present me an evidence that God exists.

You may want to consider why many Christian scholars have experienced doubt, and why it is considered a natural phase by many.

But lets see the evidence.
As empty as paradise

OzmO

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2007, 10:57:15 AM »
I do not intend to 'sidestep' anything.

 I will address any so called contradictions. Fairy Tales are false stories that do not deal with reality. The Bible is not a fairy tale. I'm sorry that you feel that believing in the supernatural is intellectually immature. However, everything I believe has a very concrete basis in supported facts.[/b] Do not assume that I have not intellectually plumbed the depths of the Scriptures and it's claims. In fact, it is the exegesis of Scripture that is the foundation of my beliefs.

I find it very interesting that some of the worlds greatest minds refuse to look at the Scriptures as an option as an explanation for their existence. However, they will believe that we have evolved out of nothing. To me that is intellectually absurd. A Creater is the only logical and intelligent explanation.

As far as this Apollinius of Tyana character, I'm not familiar with him. You say he has the same credentials as Jesus? Did he perform many miracles, die and rise from the dead?



Still waiting.......


(this ought to be good  ;D)

PS:  Proving that a book is true becuase it says so in the book is not proof.

The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2007, 02:37:16 PM »
There is no evidence of Jesus being raised from the dead.

If you claim this, you are a liar, or just not scholared in the Bible.

There are however testimonials of Jesus being raised from the dead.

Big difference.

Testimonials - not evidence.

So I ask you once again, present me an evidence that God exists.

You may want to consider why many Christian scholars have experienced doubt, and why it is considered a natural phase by many.

But lets see the evidence.

First, you throw around the word "liar" quite easily. That's not very respectful.

It's interesting how people on this board will call people disrespectful names and make all kinds of character assassinations. Even the hardest core gang members in Compton would not say something like that to my face.

You don't call HUNDREDS of EYEWITNESSES to His post resurrection life "evidence"??? How about even his enemies stating that His body is NOT in the "Guarded" tomb??? How about the testimony of the man His enemies "paid" to lie and say that His disciples stole His body???

How about the fact that there is NO "evidence" that He did NOT rise from the dead??? Don't you think that with all of the followers of Jesus running around proclaiming that fact the He had risen from the dead, there would have been an urgent need by His enemies and the Government which put Him to death, to prove the statement false??? Well, they attempted and failed!

We know that they faced torture, vilification and severely cruel deaths, for what they fervently believed to be true, it is inconceivable that they would have been willing to die for what they knew to be a lie. As Dr. Simon Greenleaf, the famous Royal Professor of Law at Harvard put it: “If it were morally possible for them to have been deceived in this matter, every human motive operator to lead them to discover and avow their error…If then their testimony was not true , there was no possible motive for this fabrication.”

It is only human to experience doubt. In fact, I think God allows that doubt to encourage deeper investigation. He knows that the deeper we investigate the more convinced we will become. That’s what happens, TRUTH is pretty convincing!

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2007, 02:46:15 PM »
I see you have conveniently falied to address the nativity contradictions as well as the geographical contradictions....

Here's Hank Hanegraaff's reply to the statement you cut and pasted:
BETHLEHEM OR BUST
[/b]
Jesus Seminar fellow Marcus Borg gave one of the more curious suggestions in The Search For Jesus with his claim that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem. The reasoning used to come to this conclusion would be interesting if it were not so insidious. First, the assertion is made that only two Gospels deal with the place of Christ’s birth, and they tell it differently. Luke says Jesus was born in a manger while Matthew says Jesus is born at home. Further, it is argued that there is no record outside the Gospels that Caesar Augustus ordered a worldwide taxation. Moreover, a man was taxed where he worked and women were not even counted. Therefore, Mary and Joseph would not have had to travel to Bethlehem. Finally, it is suggested that people were known by the place where they were born. Since Jesus is known as Jesus of Nazareth, He must have been born there — not Bethlehem.
At times, the statements made in The Search For Jesus are so bizarre that one hardly knows where to begin to refute. Take, for example, Borg’s presumptuous argument that Matthew and Luke provide different (i.e., contradictory) information concerning Christ’s birth in Bethlehem, and, therefore, neither one is to be trusted. In reality, there is nothing in Matthew that contradicts Luke. To present the appearance of a contradiction Borg says that according to Matthew Jesus was “born at home.” Matthew, however, says nothing of the sort — Borg simply fabricates this statement.
Far from being contradictory, the differences between the Gospel accounts are clearly complementary. Luke adds details to Matthew’s account, such as Christ’s birth taking place in a manger because there was no room for them in the inn. Differences between the Gospels not only demonstrate that they did not rely on one another but also add weight to their authenticity. In the words of historian Dr. Paul Barnett, “The differences in the narratives indicate that not only were Matthew and Luke isolated from each other when they wrote, but also that the sources on which they depended were quite separate. Yet from these underlying source strands we have detailed agreement about where Jesus was born, when, to which parents, and the miraculous circumstances of his conception.”11
Furthermore, Jennings’ statement that there is no record outside of the Gospels that Emperor Caesar Augustus ordered a worldwide taxation is not only presumptuous but also patently false. In truth, Caesar Augustus was famous for his census taking — so famous, in fact, that credible historians do not even debate the issue. The Jewish historian Josephus, for example, refers to a Roman taxation of A.D. 6.12 Considering the scope of this taxation, it is logical to assume that it took a long time to complete. It no doubt began with Caesar Augustus about 5 B.C. and was completed approximately a decade later. Luke, a meticulous historian, notes that the census was first completed when Quirinius was governor of Syria.13 In fact, as historian Paul Maier explained during a Bible Answer Man broadcast, “The Romans took 40 years to get a census done in Gaul. For a province 1,500 miles away from Rome in Palestine to take a decade is pretty quick. And since that census would finally come in under Quirinius’s administration, it would be called correctly by Luke his census.”14
Given Luke’s impeccable credentials as a historian, it would have been far more circumspect for Jennings to give him the benefit of the doubt. One need only remember the experience of the brilliant archeologist Sir William Ramsay who set out to disprove Luke’s historical reliability. Through his painstaking Mediterranean archeological trips, he discovered that, one after the other, the historical allusions of Luke proved accurate. If, as Ramsay points out, Luke does not err in referencing a plethora of countries, cities, and islands, there is no reason to doubt him concerning this census.15
Jennings’s assertion that men were taxed where they lived and women didn’t count is also spurious. Maier cites a first-century Roman census in Egypt, in which taxpayers living elsewhere were ordered to return to their homelands for registration.16 Furthermore, a Roman census from Bacchius, Egypt, dated A.D. 119, historically documents that women and children were registered by their husbands or fathers.17
Finally, Borg’s assertion that Jesus was known as Jesus of Nazareth and thus must have been born there instead of in Bethlehem is also dead wrong. Countless      counterexamples undermine his hypothesis. For instance, Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 175–195) was probably a native of Smyrna, where as a boy he perhaps studied and taught at Rome before moving to Lyons;18 Lucian of Antioch (c. 240–312) was born at Samosata but completed his education and eventually led the theological schools at Antioch;19 Paul of Constantinople (d. c. 351) was a native of Thessalonica and became bishop of Constantinople.20 These men were born in one place but later moved to another with which their names became associated, as did Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem but lived the vast majority of His life in Nazareth. History shows that in the broader context of people’s lives several factors influence how they may be known.
More importantly, because the Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem, we can rest assured that He was born in Bethlehem! While Borg’s scholarship is consistently suspect, the Bible is demonstrably divine rather than human in origin. We therefore should believe the Bible over Borg. Several approaches show the God-breathed nature, and thus utter trustworthiness, of Scripture, one of which, as I alluded to earlier, is through Jesus’ historically verifiable claim to deity and resurrection from the dead in vindication of that claim.21 In the Gospels, Jesus repeatedly validated the Old Testament and guaranteed the veracity of the New Testament.22 Speaking as God, Christ’s pronouncements are true, and, therefore, so is everything the Bible teaches, including all that pertains to His miraculous birth.

The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2007, 02:50:59 PM »

Still waiting.......


(this ought to be good  ;D)

PS:  Proving that a book is true becuase it says so in the book is not proof.

Don't ignore the fact that the Bible is one of the most Historically Accurate books of all time, thus only adding to it's credibility.

When a book makes statements that claim to be true, and when investigated, are in fact verified to be true, I guess that makes it true ;)

beatmaster

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #108 on: December 02, 2007, 03:17:57 PM »

god is imaginary...

the only true god is: THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER (hey! everything is true, they have a book  ;D )
are you delusional?

OzmO

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #109 on: December 02, 2007, 03:52:11 PM »
Don't ignore the fact that the Bible is one of the most Historically Accurate books of all time, thus only adding to it's credibility.

When a book makes statements that claim to be true, and when investigated, are in fact verified to be true, I guess that makes it true ;)

Such as what?

Provide some examples.

Still waiting.

Remember, IF the Bible is the word of God, everything in it must be true and not contradictory.


The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #110 on: December 02, 2007, 04:24:13 PM »
Such as what?

Provide some examples.

Still waiting.

Remember, IF the Bible is the word of God, everything in it must be true and not contradictory.



I'm really not going to go through and list all of the historically accurate info in the Bible.

Take for example the life of Pontius Pilot, for many years sceptics ran around proclaiming that he did not exist nor the area in which he governed. Low and behold, a few years ago archaeologists dug up an ancient monument with his name on it in the very area they said did not exist.


OzmO

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #111 on: December 02, 2007, 04:35:58 PM »
I'm really not going to go through and list all of the historically accurate info in the Bible.

Take for example the life of Pontius Pilot, for many years sceptics ran around proclaiming that he did not exist nor the area in which he governed. Low and behold, a few years ago archaeologists dug up an ancient monument with his name on it in the very area they said did not exist.



How does that make Jesus's walking on water a fact?

I'm not asking you to list ALL,  i asked you to give some examples.

Any more you'd like to try?

BTW.  Before you waste too much time giving examples....just becuase places and people in the bible can be identified in some scriptures, it doesn't mean All the other ones are true and it doesn't mean the instances of fairy tail like events are also true. 

If it was the case, then Greek mythology would be true becuase we know where Mt. Olympus is.

If you don't agree, prove otherwise.

PS:   You didn't address anything regarding traps geological contradictions.  You simply cut and pasted something.  Break it down, show where those contradictions are not true.

Because, Freak, you seem to be all talk and no substance.  In other words you do very little backing up of what you say.

(odds are 6 to 1 you will not directly address Traps geological contradictions or any of the questions i asked but instead you'll regurgitate some bible thumper rhetoric)

The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #112 on: December 02, 2007, 04:49:41 PM »
How does that make Jesus's walking on water a fact?

PS:  I'm not asking you to list ALL,  i asked you to give some examples.

Any more?

How does you not believing that Jesus walking on water make it not a fact that He did?

Obviously, some things will remain unproven. However, that does not make them untrue. In fact, there are more evidences the He did walk on water than there are that He did not. For example, there are eyewitness testimonies stating that He did. There are NO testimonies during the same time period stating that He did not.

So what is more likely to be true? Obviously the statements that have gone un contradicted.

Historical Example: (Sorry for the cut & paste, I'm pretty bust right now.)

Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD) has been called the greatest historian on ancient Rome. He lived during the reign of several Roman emperors and was a Roman historian and a governor of Asia [Turkey] in AD 112. He wrote two major works: Annals and the Histories. The following is a quote from the Annals.

Reference To Jesus Christ
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. - Annals 15.44

Conclusion
This reference reveals several key things:   
  1) Christ lived during the reign of Tiberius (AD 14-37). 
  2) Pontius Pilate put him to death. 
  3) The word "superstition" suggests a religion. 
  4) Christ had followers who were named Christians. 
  5) The Christians suffered under Nero and they were hated by others.
 

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #113 on: December 02, 2007, 04:56:22 PM »
How does you not believing that Jesus walking on water make it not a fact that He did?

Obviously, some things will remain unproven. However, that does not make them untrue. In fact, there are more evidences the He did walk on water than there are that He did not. For example, there are eyewitness testimonies stating that He did. There are NO testimonies during the same time period stating that He did not.

So what is more likely to be true? Obviously the statements that have gone un contradicted.


Freak,

1.  We don't have all the testimonies from every person there.
2.  We don't have all the original testimonies
3.  We're not completely sure who even wrote the testimonies to begin with
4.  These testimonies are 2nd hand, not from every person that allegedly witnesses it
5.  The testimonies, if you can even call them that, were written 40 years after the event.


All we do have is is what's written in the bible.

Hardly proof in any capacity.

Regarding your cut and paste:

that has nothing to do with what Jesus did, but only that he existed.

BTW.  Before you waste too much time giving examples....just becuase places and people in the bible can be identified in some scriptures, it doesn't mean All the other ones are true and it doesn't mean the instances of fairy tail like events are also true.

If it was the case, then Greek mythology would be true becuase we know where Mt. Olympus is.

If you don't agree, prove otherwise.

The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #114 on: December 02, 2007, 05:00:01 PM »

PS:   You didn't address anything regarding traps geological contradictions.  You simply cut and pasted something.  Break it down, show where those contradictions are not true.

Because, Freak, you seem to be all talk and no substance.  In other words you do very little backing up of what you say.

(odds are 6 to 1 you will not directly address Traps geological contradictions or any of the questions i asked but instead you'll regurgitate some bible thumper rhetoric)

First, I am not a Geological expert so I need to look those things up and that takes time. It's actually funny to me that Trap would post something as ridiculous as that statement. Does he have topographical maps from that time period to back up what he is stating?
As far as being all talk and no substance, you seem to be ignoring all of the facts that you are presented. I have continually provided supporting fact to back up what I say. You just choose to disregard them.

Is that how you confront facts, by disregarding them and off the cuff remarks like "you're all talk". You have to deal with the facts you have been confronted with over and over again throughout this thread and others. From what I've seen here on this thread all of the Christians seem to much more than just talk. I don't think you are used to dealing with people that actually have knowledge about the facts.

What have I not addressed? Anything that is true in the Bible is Bible thumper rhetoric to you.

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #115 on: December 02, 2007, 05:03:17 PM »
Freak,

Imagine if you had to prove someone's innocence with the logic you use to prove Jesus walked on water.

You go into court and say:  I have testimonials (dispositions, statements from witnesses)

BUT,

I don't have th originals they wrote on,
What I do have is a copied statement that can be verified up to 100 years after the originals were written by someone who wrote about the event 40 years after it happened.

Now how far do you think you'd get?

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #116 on: December 02, 2007, 05:09:25 PM »
First, I am not a Geological expert so I need to look those things up and that takes time. It's actually funny to me that Trap would post something as ridiculous as that statement. Does he have topographical maps from that time period to back up what he is stating?
As far as being all talk and no substance, you seem to be ignoring all of the facts that you are presented. I have continually provided supporting fact to back up what I say. You just choose to disregard them.



Look at a map.  You don't need to be an expert.   Or draw it out.

Also you haven't provided supporting facts, you've provided supporting opinions.

Quote
Is that how you confront facts, by disregarding them and off the cuff remarks like "you're all talk". You have to deal with the facts you have been confronted with over and over again throughout this thread and others. From what I've seen here on this thread all of the Christians seem to much more than just talk. I don't think you are used to dealing with people that actually have knowledge about the facts.

What have I not addressed? Anything that is true in the Bible is Bible thumper rhetoric to you.

loco has the most knowledge i've seen here.   He posts good arguments and uses supporting facts.  You on the other hand you are not doing that.  You said becuase it is written that people witnessed it, it must be true.  People have wrote that they witnessed all kinds of crap and we have the actual documents they wrote it on. 

You on the other don't even have the actual documents.

So that's very far from "legitimate" facts, Freak.

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #117 on: December 02, 2007, 05:11:54 PM »
Freak,

1.  We don't have all the testimonies from every person there.
2.  We don't have all the original testimonies
3.  We're not completely sure who even wrote the testimonies to begin with
4.  These testimonies are 2nd hand, not from every person that allegedly witnesses it
5.  The testimonies, if you can even call them that, were written 40 years after the event.


1. How do you know? We do have testimony from people that were there.
2. We have original testimonies. I don't know what you mean by all.
3. That is not true. We are sure. You just don't accept it.
4. "Some" may be second hand. However, there are some EYEWITNESS testimonies as well.
5.You don't know that, and if so, that does not make them false.

Quote
All we do have is is what's written in the bible.

Hardly proof in any capacity.

Well then I  guess you have to take it at face value if you do not have anything that contradicts it.

The truth is the truth unless it is disproved.

Quote
Regarding your cut and paste:

that has nothing to do with what Jesus did, but only that he existed.

You asked for some "historical facts", that's what I gave you. It was not an attempt to prove what Jesus did.

Quote
BTW.  Before you waste too much time giving examples....just because places and people in the bible can be identified in some scriptures, it doesn't mean All the other ones are true and it doesn't mean the instances of fairy tail like events are also true.

You're right. However, it does prove that the Bible is NOT historically inaccurate. Thus lending to it's credibility.

Quote
If it was the case, then Greek mythology would be true because we know where Mt. Olympus is.

If you don't agree, prove otherwise.

Greek "Mythology" is exactly that, "Mythology". There is no proof to back that up.

The Bible is much different, real people, real lives, real miracles, etc.


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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #118 on: December 02, 2007, 05:17:48 PM »
Freak,

Imagine if you had to prove someone's innocence with the logic you use to prove Jesus walked on water.

You go into court and say:  I have testimonials (dispositions, statements from witnesses)

BUT,

I don't have th originals they wrote on,
What I do have is a copied statement that can be verified up to 100 years after the originals were written by someone who wrote about the event 40 years after it happened.

Now how far do you think you'd get?

1. I don't need to prove Jesus walked on water. (If He can rise from the dead, I have no doubt that He can walk on water.) Epically since there is nothing to contradict it.

2. Same arguments people used to make about all of the "so called" inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the text. Then they found the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I think I'd get pretty far, considering there is no evidence to contradict my evidence.

How far do you think you'll get by simply saying "He didn't do that", when you have absolutely no evidence or even testimony to show that He didn't.


beatmaster

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #119 on: December 02, 2007, 05:19:12 PM »

god... damn!

A god is a being created by humans and given supernatural powers or attributes such as immortality, omniscience, telekinesis, and invisibility. These creations serve many purposes, such as imaginary protection from enemies or explanations for the origin of such things as good and evil, fire and wind, or life and death.

Gods are often the central figures around which religions are built. It is often claimed that religion began in fear and superstition. The same might be said for gods.

Some religions maintain that there is just one God and that all the gods of all religions except theirs were created by human beings. Yet, everyone who believes in a god of some sort believes their god is real.

Since gods are supernatural, they exist outside the bounds and laws of space and time. They can possess any of an infinite array of magical powers. Hence, there is no way to prove or disprove their reality. One might say: If gods exist, anything goes!
are you delusional?

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2007, 05:19:33 PM »
Look at a map.  You don't need to be an expert.   Or draw it out.

Also you haven't provided supporting facts, you've provided supporting opinions.

loco has the most knowledge i've seen here.   He posts good arguments and uses supporting facts.  You on the other hand you are not doing that.  You said becuase it is written that people witnessed it, it must be true.  People have wrote that they witnessed all kinds of crap and we have the actual documents they wrote it on. 

You on the other don't even have the actual documents.

So that's very far from "legitimate" facts, Freak.

Sorry I don't have a video of Jesus walking on water ???

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #121 on: December 02, 2007, 05:26:19 PM »

1. How do you know? We do have testimony from people that were there.


there are 4 gospels.  Where there only 4 people who saw him walk on water?

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2. We have original testimonies. I don't know what you mean by all.

Do we have the original papyrus, copper, or clay they were written on?  No, what we have are reproductions.  How do we know those reproductions are accurate if we don't have the originals?

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3. That is not true. We are sure. You just don't accept it.

Was Jesus's name Jesus or something else?  Was Gospels writer's names John, Matt, Luke and Mark?  Were those Hebrew names?  do we have other original writings from them that are not in the bible and are not reproduced?

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4. "Some" may be second hand. However, there are some EYEWITNESS testimonies as well.


But we don;t have everyone's eyewitness accounts.  Not to mention eyewitness accounts have historicallhy had a percantage of  inaccuracy, just ask any police officer.

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5.You don't know that, and if so, that does not make them false.

It's been commonly accepted they were written many years after Jesus's death.  Look in to it.

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Well then I  guess you have to take it at face value if you do not have anything that contradicts it.

The truth is the truth unless it is disproved.

By that logic then all the things Mohamand did, all his miracles etc... are true also.  and so are every written fairy tale or illogical event involving witnesses.

think freak, think.

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You asked for some "historical facts", that's what I gave you. It was not an attempt to prove what Jesus did.

I asked for historical facts that prove what he did.

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Greek "Mythology" is exactly that, "Mythology". There is no proof to back that up.

The Bible is much different, real people, real lives, real miracles, etc.

Greek mythology involved real people and real lives, the only difference is that main stream society and religious doctrine have labeled Greek mythology as just that while it labeled the exact same thing in the bible as fact.

both are the same, both involve real people and real places.

Just like the Koran.

OzmO

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2007, 05:29:20 PM »
1. I don't need to prove Jesus walked on water. (If He can rise from the dead, I have no doubt that He can walk on water.) Epically since there is nothing to contradict it.

2. Same arguments people used to make about all of the "so called" inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the text. Then they found the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I think I'd get pretty far, considering there is no evidence to contradict my evidence.

How far do you think you'll get by simply saying "He didn't do that", when you have absolutely no evidence or even testimony to show that He didn't.



Freak, sigh........

What i'm telling you is that what you call facts or proof aren't that at all. 

Sorry I don't have a video of Jesus walking on water ???

then if you can't prove it it's not a fact.  It's a belief.

You believe Jesus walked on water and you don;t have any provable fact to back it up with.

Why can't you just admit that.

I can admit my belief in god is based mostly on belief and not provable facts.  It doesn't change what i believe. 

The Freakshow

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #123 on: December 02, 2007, 06:45:07 PM »
The Gerasene Demoniac:

In Mark 5:1, Jesus and company sail across the Sea of Galilee and come to "the land of the Gerasenes." There they encounter a man possessed by unclean spirits. Jesus drives out the spirits, the spirits enter some pigs and the pigs run down a hill and jump into the lake.

If you look at a map you can see that Gerasa is 30 miles south southeast of the lake. That's a pretty big jump for those pigs. There is also no 30 mile long embankment running down from Gerasa to the lake.

Matthew reconized Mark's blunder and tried to correct Gerasa to Gadara (the Matthew story also contains two demoniacs instead of one so Matthew's version of the story contains two contradictions with Mark) but Gadara was still six miles from the lake. Luke retains Gerasa in his version indicating that Luke didn't know much about Palestinian geography either.


Mark 5:1 “They came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes.”

“They came to the other side of the sea” is the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee.

“into the country of the Gerasenes.” Most likely refers to the small town of Gersa (which today is possibly the modern village of Khersa), which was located midway on the eastern shore.

‘country of” refers to the general region that included Gersa and was under the jurisdiction of the city of Gadara, which was located six miles SE of the Sea of Galilee; this is probably why Luke referred to the region as the country of the Gadarenes.

I have attached an image of the modern day hillside which has a steep hillside directly into the Sea. Apparently, the men traversing the land at the time had more knowledge of Palestinian geography than you.

As far as Matthew’s version contradicting Mark’s because it contains two demon possessed men, I disagree. Matthew’s account includes “additional” information, not contradictory. Mark and Luke focused on the one that was obviously more predominant. The text states that when the demons gave their name it was “Legion”, which means many. It makes sense that they would focus on him because it was the greatest demonstration of Jesus’ power.

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Re: For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...
« Reply #124 on: December 02, 2007, 06:56:48 PM »


flying spaghetti monster!!! touched by his noodly appendage!!!

are you delusional?