For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...

[OzmO]

usmokepole,
people do practice witchcraft and refer to themselves as witches.  Rape and human sacrifice has been involved in their rituals too.

I'm betting you know very little about Wicca.

Mm, God orders everyone to death for everything?  Are you referring to the God of the Bible?  Show me where in the Bible God orders everyone to death for everything.

[loco]

I'm betting you know very little about Wicca.

I'm betting you know very little about witchcraft in South American and in the Caribbean.  I'm betting you know very little about witchcraft in ancient times.

[OzmO]

I'm betting you know very little about witchcraft in South American and in the Caribbean.  I'm betting you know very little about witchcraft in ancient times.

I'm betting you are right, but to be fair you are the one who made the accusation:

people do practice witchcraft and refer to themselves as witches.  Rape and human sacrifice has been involved in their rituals too.

I know a few witches, at least those who profess to follow Wicca.  Thier organizations in the USA are far from human sacrifice.  but as you say, i do not know about S. American or the Carribean.

[loco]

I'm betting you are right, but to be fair you are the one who made the accusation:

I know a few witches, at least those who profess to follow Wicca.  Thier organizations in the USA are far from human sacrifice.  but as you say, i do not know about S. American or the Carribean.

First of all, it is not an accusation.  Second of all, I am not talking about Wicca.  I don't know if rape and human sacrifice is performed in secret by witches in the US.  Check with your local FBI.  They would know.

[Necrosis]

i dont care if people practice witchcraft or whatever they think they are doing but the are not sorceress and have no reason to die if they pretend they can perform magic. sacrifices are a different thing, but blanket generalizations of death are not warrented whatsoever.


sorcery/sorceress
Use of supernatural power over others through the assistance of spirits; witchcraft.



doesnt exist. i could practice magic, but it doesnt mean its real. people can call themselves whatever they want.


are these not from the bible, if they are not i apologize


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
 
Kill Witches
    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
 
Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
 
Kill Fortunetellers
    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
 
Death for Hitting Dad
    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
 
Death for Cursing Parents
    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
 
Death for Adultery
    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
 
Death for Fornication
    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
 
Death to Followers of Other Religions
    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
 
Kill Nonbelievers
    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
 
Kill False Prophets
    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)


http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/who-has-killed-more-satan-or-god.html this is a funny comparison. god kills all over the old testament no doubt.

source
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html



Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23

God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10

Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6

Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8

God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24

Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26

God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe's lie. 20:3-7

Sarai tells Abraham to "cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands him to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14

God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13

Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10

Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31

"The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5

"And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7

After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10

After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24

God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

"For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14

some good shit here, god is loving

Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19

[OzmO]

First of all, it is not an accusation.  Second of all, I am not talking about Wicca.  I don't know if rape and human sacrifice is performed in secret by witches in the US.  Check with your local FBI.  They would know.

Highly unlikley at least in the norm.

In this overly religious country you'd hear about it.

BTW,

Wicca is the practice of witchcraft which in my mind if you practice witchcraft you are witch.



http://www.wicca.org/

First of all, it is not an accusation.

If you say so.     

[OzmO]

I'm betting you know very little about witchcraft in South American and in the Caribbean.  I'm betting you know very little about witchcraft in ancient times.

BTW don't even bring up ancient times, we've seen what the Jews do in murdering innocent children.  So in my mind they are no better that a child sacrificing cult.

[loco]

BTW don't even bring up ancient times, we've seen what the Jews do in murdering innocent children.  So in my mind they are no better that a child sacrificing cult.

Don't bring ancient times?  I thought we were talking about the Old Testament here.

[Necrosis]

i love how christians say god is all loving but in the bible he is "angry" a negative trait which totally kills that notion. then, he loves to have everyone die. but what makes it ridiculous is that he apparently knows the future, which firstly voids free will, and secondly makes him a murderer. he creates people with characteristics that will make them fail, he knows they will fail, so he orders them to death, wtf? a little juvenile

[loco]

Highly unlikley at least in the norm.

In this overly religious country you'd hear about it.

BTW,

Wicca is the practice of witchcraft which in my mind if you practice witchcraft you are witch.



http://www.wicca.org/


If you say so.     

Check with your local FBI first, then come back and report.

Just because you are ignorant of witch craft rituals outside the US doesn't make it an accusation.  Take a trip to Venezuela and visit montaņa Sorte in the state of Yaracuy.  Don't worry, they won't sacrifice you.  The reports of human sacrifice years ago were of babies and young women to some demon called Maria Lionza, goddess of fertility, and to two other spirits.

[OzmO]

Don't bring ancient times?  I thought we were talking about the Old Testament here.

Language issue.

What i said was kind of a figure of speech.

[loco]

i dont care if people practice witchcraft or whatever they think they are doing but the are not sorceress and have no reason to die if they pretend they can perform magic. sacrifices are a different thing, but blanket generalizations of death are not warrented whatsoever.


sorcery/sorceress
Use of supernatural power over others through the assistance of spirits; witchcraft.



doesnt exist. i could practice magic, but it doesnt mean its real. people can call themselves whatever they want.


are these not from the bible, if they are not i apologize


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
 
Kill Witches
    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
 
Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
 
Kill Fortunetellers
    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
 
Death for Hitting Dad
    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
 
Death for Cursing Parents
    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
 
Death for Adultery
    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
 
Death for Fornication
    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
 
Death to Followers of Other Religions
    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
 
Kill Nonbelievers
    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
 
Kill False Prophets
    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)


http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/who-has-killed-more-satan-or-god.html this is a funny comparison. god kills all over the old testament no doubt.

source
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html



Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23

God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10

Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6

Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8

God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24

Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26

God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe's lie. 20:3-7

Sarai tells Abraham to "cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands him to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14

God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13

Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10

Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31

"The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5

"And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7

After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10

After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24

God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

"For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14

some good shit here, god is loving

Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19

Okay, show me where in the Bible God orders everyone to death for everything?

smoke,
Many laws in the Old Testament along with the death penalty for breaking them were for the Jews.  This is why it says many times "Let there not be found among you."  They were part of Judaism.  The Jews agreed to follow these laws and they also agreed to the death penalty as a punishment for breaking them.  I don't see any Jews complaining when the law was given to them.  The death penalty for breaking them applied to them and anyone living with them.  God chose them to be His people, and with that came privileges along with responsibility.  To them much was given, and from them much was required.

Israel was supposed to be a good example for other nations to emulate, but Israel was not commanded to go around the world and kill homosexuals, adulterers, etc.  God did not command Jews to spread Judaism.

[OzmO]

Check with your local FBI first, then come back and report.

Just because you are ignorant of witch craft rituals outside the US doesn't make it an accusation.  Take a trip to Venezuela and visit montaņa Sorte in the state of Yaracuy.  Don't worry, the won't sacrifice you.  The reports of human sacrifice years ago were of babies and young women to some demon called Maria Lionza, goddess of fertility, and to two other spirits.

No need.   I'm sure some sick twisted few some place has committed some grizzly act.  but as i said it's far form the norm.

But you are the one with the opinion about Wicca, your ignorance begs your research.

As far as Venezuela, i doubt those who you call witches are considered witches be Wiccans.  And if they are, they would be bad witches.

[OzmO]

Okay, show me where in the Bible God orders everyone to death for everything?

smoke,
Many laws in the Old Testament along with the death penalty for breaking them were for the Jews.  This is why it says many times "Let there not be found among you."  They were part of Judaism.  The Jews agreed to follow these laws and they also agreed to the death penalty as a punishment for breaking them.  I don't see any Jews complaining when the law was given to them.  The death penalty for breaking them applied to them and anyone living with them.  God chose them to be His people, and with that came privileges along with responsibility.  To them much was given, and from them much was required.

Israel was supposed to be a good example for other nations to emulate, but Israel was not commanded to go around the world and kill homosexuals, adulterers, etc.  God did not command Jews to spread Judaism.

LOL,  that's what i love about you people, the "word" only applies when it's convenient.

[loco]

LOL,  that's what i love about you people, the "word" only applies when it's convenient.

When you actually read the Old Testament, you'll see that God did not command Israel to go around the world and spread Judaism.  You'll see that God did not command Israel to go around the world and kill homosexuals and adulterers in other nations.

When you actually read the New Testament, you'll see where it says that Gentiles are not bound by Jewish law.

[loco]

No need.   I'm sure some sick twisted few some place has committed some grizzly act.  but as i said it's far form the norm.

But you are the one with the opinion about Wicca, your ignorance begs your research.

As far as Venezuela, i doubt those who you call witches are considered witches be Wiccans.  And if they are, they would be bad witches.

I'm the one with opinion about Wicca?  Where did I say anything about Wicca?  I don't care about Wicca.

[OzmO]

When you actually read the Old Testament, you'll see that God did not command Israel to go around the world and spread Judaism.  You'll see that God did not command Israel to go around the world and kill homosexuals and adulterers in other nations.

When you actually read the New Testament, you'll see where it says that Gentiles are not bound by Jewish law.

you mean like the 10 commandments?

So anything said in the OT as far as how to live and laws and sins and all that don't apply to Gentiles?

[OzmO]

I'm the one with opinion about Wicca?  Where did I say anything about Wicca?  I don't care about Wicca.

Wicca = witchcraft

Practicing witch craft = Witch.

you are ignorant to Wicca and think witches perform child sacrifice.

And what i'm telling you is that, Wiccans (witches) in the USA in the norm do not do that.

[loco]

you mean like the 10 commandments?

If you read the New Testament, you'll see that following the 10 Commandments will not get you into Heaven.  However, they are most likely to be followed by Christians and Jews than by anybody else.  We are commanded to obey the 10 Commandments for the common good, but not for eternal life.

[OzmO]

If you read the New Testament, you'll see that following the 10 Commandments will not get you into Heaven.  However, they are most likely to be followed by Christians and Jews than by anybody else.  We are commanded to obey the 10 Commandments for the common good, but not for eternal life.

So anything said in the OT as far as how to live and laws and sins and all that don't apply to Gentiles?

[loco]

Wicca = witchcraft

Practicing witch craft = Witch.

you are ignorant to Wicca and think witches perform child sacrifice.

And what i'm telling you is that, Wiccans (witches) in the USA in the norm do not do that.

So what?  Witches in Old Testament times and up to the middle ages performed human sacrifice.  Witches in some third world countries perform human sacrifice.  They are witches because they believe that they can cast spells.  The perform human sacrifice to spirits from whom they believe that they can get the power to cast spells.  They don't care what wiccans say and they probably don't even know what wicca is, but they call themselves witches and claim to practice witchcraft.

[OzmO]

If you read the New Testament, you'll see that following the 10 Commandments will not get you into Heaven.  However, they are most likely to be followed by Christians and Jews than by anybody else.  We are commanded to obey the 10 Commandments for the common good, but not for eternal life.

so you don't really have to follow.......how convenient. 

[loco]

So anything said in the OT as far as how to live and laws and sins and all that don't apply to Gentiles?

I'll post some NT verses tomorrow.  Paul can explain it better then I can. Good night, OzmO!

[loco]

so you don't really have to follow.......how convenient. 

To go to heaven?  No.  For the common good?  Yes.

[OzmO]

So what?  Witches in Old Testament times and up to the middle ages performed human sacrifice.  Witches in some third world countries perform human sacrifice.  They are witches because they believe that they can cast spells.  The perform human sacrifice to spirits from whom they believe that they can get the power to cast spells.  They don't care what wiccans say and they probably don't even know what wicca is, but they call themselves witches and claim to practice witchcraft.

So what.

Jews in the old testament times murdered whole nations of children.   Same difference, other then you are convinced they were justified. 

An din the Medievil times, Crusaders using the Church God let them establish in his name using his word, murdered millions.  Maybe 50 million according to the book of Martyrs.

Again, same difference, but with the Jews and Crusaders on a much larger scale.