For those that don't believe the bible is the word of God...

[loco]

No. I would call that testimonials.

Anyone I know would call it testimonials.

They could've been THOUSANDS. Still wouldn't made them "evidence". Still would be eyewitnesses giving testimonials.

You claim to have evidence of God.

If eye witnesses like these are your "evidence", I think we all can agree (except you maybe) that you do not have any evidence of God, you cannot prove that he exists, and that your belief in that you can, is a faulty one.

Time to re-evaluate your POV on God perhaps? And view a few episodes of "CSI" (they work a lot with "evidence" there)
 
There is no "evidence"  either that Jesus didn't turn into 300 feet high giant, and walked around the world in 5 seconds. No "evidence" that Messiah didn't return for one night as Michael Jordan, and shot 63 one night against the Celtics.

 Should I have to disprove that?

The burden of proof is obviously on those who claims feats of Jesus.




If there were evidence, there would be no room for doubt.

We have evidence that the world is round. We have evidence that babies are born from the mother. We have evidence that cars need fuel. We have evidence that 20 lbs of iron hurts more on the toe than 20 lbs of cotton would. That allows us to not doubt those facts.

We don't experience doubts in the above facts. Because we can see the evidence.

Bump for answer from Freakshow!

I would agree if the testimonials written in a two thousand year old piece of parchment was all we had.  But it is not only the testimonials, but also what it was that these eye witnesses did as a result of their alleged sighting of a risen Jesus.  They gave up all they had to spread the Good News, under penalty of death.  This was no legend that they believed in because it all happened around the same time.  Hence, too little time for such a powerful legend to form. 

We may have thousands of people witness UFOs and we may have thousands of people witness Elvis, but has anything resulted from those sightings?  On the other hand, we have early Christians sell everything they had, give it to the poor, preach Jesus Christ, suffer ridicule and rejection, get arrested, get tortured and die, all without retaliation or violence on their part, thus following their own teachings which got them executed in the first place.  So much for the theory that Jesus Christ was invented to control people and to obtain power and wealth.  Most, if not all of the early Christians, including the leaders, suffered and died poor, holding no power at all.  I know this is no proof, but it is evidence to me, part of it anyway.  It is insufficient and unacceptable evidence to many, but not to me.

More extra-Biblical information about early Christians:

Pliny the Younger Letter to Trajan (c.111-117 C.E.)

"...they maintained that their fault or error amounted to nothing more than this: they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before sunrise and reciting an antiphonal hymn to Christ as God, and binding themselves with an oath not to commit any crime, but to abstain from all acts of theft, robbery and adultery, from breaches of faith, from repudiating a trust when called upon to honour it."1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tacitus Roman Annals (c.115-117 C.E.)

"They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. That checked the pernicious superstition for a short time, but it broke out afresh--not only in Judea, where the plague first arose, but in Rome itself, where all the horrible and shameful things in the world collect and find a home."2

References:

1. Pliny, Epistles x.96, from Bruce, p.26.
2. Tacitus, Annals xv, 44, from Bruce, p. 22.

[windsor88]

  On the other hand, we have early Christians sell everything they had, give it to the poor, preach Jesus Christ, suffer ridicule and rejection, get arrested, get tortured and die, all without retaliation or violence on their part, thus following their own teachings which got them executed in the first place.  So much for the theory that Jesus Christ was invented to control people and to obtain power and wealth.  Most, if not all of the early Christians, including the leaders, suffered and died poor, holding no power at all.  I know this is no proof, but it is evidence to me, part of it anyway.  It is insufficient and unacceptable evidence to many, but not to me.

This Jesus character must have been a hell of a talker and magician.

That is no proof anyway.  Look how many people followed around this nut.  same with David Koresh.

Jim Jones

They reach a consensus to commit group suicide.  Most appear to have committed suicide by drinking a grape drink laced with cyanide and a number of sedatives, including liquid Valium, Penegram and chloral hydrate. Some sources say it was Kool-Aid; others say FlaVor-Aid®. Other victims appear to have been murdered by poison injection. The Guyanese coroner said that hundreds of bodies showed needle marks, indicating foul play. Still other victims were shot. A very few fled into the jungle and survived.

In all, 914 died: 638 adults and 276 children. Some sources say 911 died. Their bodies were in a state of extensive decay when the authorities arrived. There was no time to conduct a thorough investigation. TV station KTVU in San Francisco CA has a collection of photographs of the "Peoples temple Agricultural Project." Some are quite disturbing. Unfortunately, their web site implies that all of the dead committed suicide.

[Necrosis]

This Jesus character must have been a hell of a talker and magician.

That is no proof anyway.  Look how many people followed around this nut.  same with David Koresh.

Jim Jones

They reach a consensus to commit group suicide.  Most appear to have committed suicide by drinking a grape drink laced with cyanide and a number of sedatives, including liquid Valium, Penegram and chloral hydrate. Some sources say it was Kool-Aid; others say FlaVor-Aid®. Other victims appear to have been murdered by poison injection. The Guyanese coroner said that hundreds of bodies showed needle marks, indicating foul play. Still other victims were shot. A very few fled into the jungle and survived.

In all, 914 died: 638 adults and 276 children. Some sources say 911 died. Their bodies were in a state of extensive decay when the authorities arrived. There was no time to conduct a thorough investigation. TV station KTVU in San Francisco CA has a collection of photographs of the "Peoples temple Agricultural Project." Some are quite disturbing. Unfortunately, their web site implies that all of the dead committed suicide.

cult leaders do what jesus had done all the time, big deal, if thats proof, its proof that jesus was a cult leader. wait.................... ...

[The Freakshow]

cult leaders do what jesus had done all the time, big deal, if thats proof, its proof that jesus was a cult leader. wait.................... ...

First "there's no proof", then there's "well if there is proof" he must be a magician, a cult leader, yada yada yada......

You have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE TO OBTAIN THE TRUTH!!!! You just want to try to bash Christianity.

It all sounded like a good idea when you started, "I think I'll go on the boards and make all the Christians look stupid by showing them that the Bible is full of inaccuraces, contradicts itself, Jesus wasn't real, He was married and Had kids, (and all of the other nonsense you've heard rumors about)."

Then, oooooopppps.... you're confronted with the reality that Bible is reliable and these so called inconsistencies really don't exist. Then you realize that you have issues you have to deal with in your life if this is true. "Oh well, I think i will just deny all of the evidence and call them a bunch of names and make fun of them, then maybe they'll be distracted and they won't realize what a fool I am.". Uhh, duhhh, Jesus was..........wait....... .

[OzmO]

First "there's no proof", then there's "well if there is proof" he must be a magician, a cult leader, yada yada yada......

You have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE TO OBTAIN THE TRUTH!!!! You just want to try to bash Christianity.

It all sounded like a good idea when you started, "I think I'll go on the boards and make all the Christians look stupid by showing them that the Bible is full of inaccuraces, contradicts itself, Jesus wasn't real, He was married and Had kids, (and all of the other nonsense you've heard rumors about)."

Then, oooooopppps.... you're confronted with the reality that Bible is reliable and these so called inconsistencies really don't exist. Then you realize that you have issues you have to deal with in your life if this is true. "Oh well, I think i will just deny all of the evidence and call them a bunch of names and make fun of them, then maybe they'll be distracted and they won't realize what a fool I am.". Uhh, duhhh, Jesus was..........wait....... .

Thump thump 

[OzmO]

I would agree if the testimonials written in a two thousand piece of parchment was all we had.  But it is not only the testimonials, but also what it was that these eye witnesses did as a result of their alleged sighting of a risen Jesus.  They gave up all they had to spread the Good News, under penalty of death.  This was no legend that they believed in because it all happened around the same time.  Hence, too little time for such a powerful legend to form. 

We may have thousands of people witness UFOs and we may have thousands of people witness Elvis, but has anything resulted from those sightings?  On the other hand, we have early Christians sell everything they had, give it to the poor, preach Jesus Christ, suffer ridicule and rejection, get arrested, get tortured and die, all without retaliation or violence on their part, thus following their own teachings which got them executed in the first place. So much for the theory that Jesus Christ was invented to control people and to obtain power and wealth.  Most, if not all of the early Christians, including the leaders, suffered and died poor, holding no power at all.  I know this is no proof, but it is evidence to me, part of it anyway.  It is insufficient and unacceptable evidence to many, but not to me.

Similar stuff happens like that all the time.  People give up their worldly possessions and join some cult.  While in that cult they do things that are against the law.  What the followers of Jesus did was hardly significant at the time as law enforcement in this day in age is far more efficient. 

the theory that Jesus Christ was invented to control people and to obtain power and wealth.

It wasn't deliberate.  At least in the  beginning, but after 300 years it was to the extend of creating a "world religion" involving a council of "authorities" all in competition to draw the frame work for the collection of books you call the Bible and determine doctrine.

[The Freakshow]

Similar stuff happens like that all the time.  People give up their worldly possessions and join some cult.  While in that cult they do things that are against the law.  What the followers of Jesus did was hardly significant at the time as law enforcement in this day in age is far more efficient. 

It wasn't deliberate.  At least in the  beginning, but after 300 years it was to the extend of creating a "world religion" involving a council of "authorities" all in competition to draw the frame work for the collection of books you call the Bible and determine doctrine.

CONSPIRACY

[Necrosis]

First "there's no proof", then there's "well if there is proof" he must be a magician, a cult leader, yada yada yada......

You have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE TO OBTAIN THE TRUTH!!!! You just want to try to bash Christianity.

It all sounded like a good idea when you started, "I think I'll go on the boards and make all the Christians look stupid by showing them that the Bible is full of inaccuraces, contradicts itself, Jesus wasn't real, He was married and Had kids, (and all of the other nonsense you've heard rumors about)."

Then, oooooopppps.... you're confronted with the reality that Bible is reliable and these so called inconsistencies really don't exist. Then you realize that you have issues you have to deal with in your life if this is true. "Oh well, I think i will just deny all of the evidence and call them a bunch of names and make fun of them, then maybe they'll be distracted and they won't realize what a fool I am.". Uhh, duhhh, Jesus was..........wait....... .

are you serious? i honestly cant tell, you must be a gimmick. its funny that you beleive the earth is 6000 years old despite proof, yet are talking about truth. the irony. i came on this board because delusional people like you exist and make the world worse off. im sick of hearing you cooks talk about people going to hell, gays etc....


i never even made an argument in this thread yet about the bibles accuracy, it can be geographically accurate for all i care(i dont know if it is, i havent looked) but the words contained inside are nothing short of hatred and have nothing to do with true compassion and love.

[The Freakshow]

are you serious? i honestly cant tell, you must be a gimmick. its funny that you beleive the earth is 6000 years old despite proof, yet are talking about truth. the irony. i came on this board because delusional people like you exist and make the world worse off. im sick of hearing you cooks talk about people going to hell, gays etc....


i never even made an argument in this thread yet about the bibles accuracy, it can be geographically accurate for all i care(i dont know if it is, i havent looked) but the words contained inside are nothing short of hatred and have nothing to do with true compassion and love.

Apparently you havent really taken a look. The Bible sets the standard for LOVE, Women's rights, Moral and Ethical standard, etc. It is NOT a book about hate. The only people that get hate out of the Bible are critics with a personal agenda that completely distort the text out of context. The whole message of the Bible is a message of LOVE.

Jesus summed it up, "By this they will know that you are my Disciples, by your LOVE for one another."

[Necrosis]

Apparently you havent really taken a look. The Bible sets the standard for LOVE, Women's rights, Moral and Ethical standard, etc. It is NOT a book about hate. The only people that get hate out of the Bible are critics with a personal agenda that completely distort the text out of context. The whole message of the Bible is a message of LOVE.

Jesus summed it up, "By this they will know that you are my Disciples, by your LOVE for one another."

so calling for death to women who dont obey there men, slavery, death to those who work on sunday, death to those who disobey there parents etc.. are examples of love and compassion. your fooling yourself.

[OzmO]

are you serious? i honestly cant tell, you must be a gimmick. its funny that you beleive the earth is 6000 years old despite proof, yet are talking about truth. the irony. i came on this board because delusional people like you exist and make the world worse off. im sick of hearing you cooks talk about people going to hell, gays etc....


i never even made an argument in this thread yet about the bibles accuracy, it can be geographically accurate for all i care(i dont know if it is, i havent looked) but the words contained inside are nothing short of hatred and have nothing to do with true compassion and love.

This guy is a fundy of the highest order to the point of ridiculous.  You aren't talking to someone with all their marbles here and on top of that this person doesn't have very many to begin with.

[The Freakshow]

This guy is a fundy of the highest order to the point of ridiculous.  You aren't talking to someone with all their marbles here and on top of that this person doesn't have very many to begin with.

 

[columbusdude82]

The Freakshow, did your god love the first born children of Egypt when he supposedly murdered them, as your holy books claim?

[loco]

This Jesus character must have been a hell of a talker and magician.

That is no proof anyway.  Look how many people followed around this nut.  same with David Koresh.

Jim Jones

They reach a consensus to commit group suicide.  Most appear to have committed suicide by drinking a grape drink laced with cyanide and a number of sedatives, including liquid Valium, Penegram and chloral hydrate. Some sources say it was Kool-Aid; others say FlaVor-Aid®. Other victims appear to have been murdered by poison injection. The Guyanese coroner said that hundreds of bodies showed needle marks, indicating foul play. Still other victims were shot. A very few fled into the jungle and survived.

In all, 914 died: 638 adults and 276 children. Some sources say 911 died. Their bodies were in a state of extensive decay when the authorities arrived. There was no time to conduct a thorough investigation. TV station KTVU in San Francisco CA has a collection of photographs of the "Peoples temple Agricultural Project." Some are quite disturbing. Unfortunately, their web site implies that all of the dead committed suicide.

What does this have to do with Jesus or with Christianity?  These leaders you speak of were modern time nuts.  Jesus was sane.  Jesus never asked his followers to commit mass suicide, or to hurt, or to kill anybody.  The same goes for early Christian leaders and early Christians in general.  They did not commit suicide.  They were executed for spreading the gospel.  They were good people who did good things.  And all of this happened around the same time, before such a powerful legend could be formed.

And read my post again.  I said that this is not proof, but it is part of sufficient and acceptable evidence to me.

[loco]

Similar stuff happens like that all the time.  People give up their worldly possessions and join some cult.  While in that cult they do things that are against the law.  What the followers of Jesus did was hardly significant at the time as law enforcement in this day in age is far more efficient. 

All the time?  Just like that?  Okay, then you must have lots of detailed examples.  Please share some with us.

It wasn't deliberate.  At least in the  beginning, but after 300 years it was to the extend of creating a "world religion" involving a council of "authorities" all in competition to draw the frame work for the collection of books you call the Bible and determine doctrine.

So what does the fact that three centuries later Christianity was corrupted and abused by the Roman Catholic Church in order to control and exploit people have to do with Jesus and with his early followers?  If you were a third century king and wanted to keep control of your kingdom by abusing a religion and its followers, you too would pick the fastest growing religion of the time.

[windsor88]

What does this have to do with Jesus or with Christianity?  These leaders you speak of were modern time nuts.  Jesus was sane.  Jesus never asked his followers to commit mass suicide, or to hurt, or to kill anybody.  The same goes for early Christian leaders and early Christians in general.  They did not commit suicide.  They were executed for spreading the gospel.  They were good people who did good things.  And all of this happened around the same time, before such a powerful legend could be formed.

And read my post again.  I said that this is not proof, but it is part of sufficient and acceptable evidence to me.

It has everything to do with Jesus and Christians. Maybe you don't know the story.  This was a snippet of what lengths people go to because they are duped.
That is what I meant when you said what these people did for Jesus, which is,  give all their stuff to the poor and preach and help  others.  That's how the above started too.  Then..... at the end most were so scared of not doing what Jim Jones said and risk being condemned to Hell,  that they drank the poison and gave their own children poison.  In their minds they were doing the right thing.
So in my mind I do not see how a group of people giving up everything and spreading the word is proof of this mythical jesus.


Also,  a revelation just came to me.  If anything, the higher authority people from the congregation who shot the non-believers because they tried to run, were actually doing what the bible states according to this youtube piece   

.  They were the "OG" Christians.

[loco]

It has everything to do with Jesus and Christians. Maybe you don't know the story.  This was a snippet of what lengths people go to because they are duped.
That is what I meant when you said what these people did for Jesus, which is,  give all their stuff to the poor and preach and help  others.  That's how the above started too.  Then..... at the end most were so scared of not doing what Jim Jones said and risk being condemned to Hell,  that they drank the poison and gave their own children poison.  In their minds they were doing the right thing.
So in my mind I do not see how a group of people giving up everything and spreading the word is proof of this mythical jesus.


Also,  a revelation just came to me.  If anything, the higher authority people from the congregation who shot the non-believers because they tried to run, were actually doing what the bible states according to this youtube piece   

.  They were the "OG" Christians.

I know the story and it has nothing to do with Jesus.  First of all, if these people knew their Bibles they would not have committed mass suicide. Second of all, according to your own story which you posted, they were forced to drink the poison, while others where injected with the poison, others were even shot, and a few even ran and were able to survive.  These guy had guns, so it was not his charisma that got this people killed.

As for that video, that guy is ignorant or purposely being deceptive.  Many Christians do read and study the Bible daily, and we don't see Christians today stoning anybody to death for anything.  So that's non sense.

[OzmO]

All the time?  Just like that?  Okay, then you must have lots of detailed examples.  Please share some with us.

What loco?  You think Christians are the only ones to do that?  The only ones to die for what they believe in?  What an arrogant and ignorant assumption.

Off the top of my head regarding cults....

Jim Jones
Harry Krisna's (sp)
Scientology
David Koresh
Moonies
Those people who all committed suicide to travel to that comet a few years ago.

In many of these cases people have given up their worldly belongings and turned away from their families.

I might even ad Jehovah Witnesses to that group.  I know a gal who's parents haven't spoken to her in 5 years because she no longer follows that faith.

Here's a wik source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_groups_referred_to_as_cults

My point is, What early Christians did in giving up their belongings and risking their lives is NOT unique to Christians.  Unless of course you are a brainwashed fundy which you are not.

So what does the fact that three centuries later Christianity was corrupted and abused by the Roman Catholic Church in order to control and exploit people have to do with Jesus and with his early followers?  If you were a third century king and wanted to keep control of your kingdom by abusing a religion and its followers, you too would pick the fastest growing religion of the time.

Simple.  The Christianity you know today is based on the collection of scripture that council put together. 

[windsor88]

I know the story and it has nothing to do with Jesus.  First of all, if these people knew their Bibles they would not have committed mass suicide. Second of all, according to your own story which you posted, they were forced to drink the poison, while others where injected with the poison, others were even shot, and a few even ran and were able to survive.  These guy had guns, so it was not his charisma that got this people killed.

As for that video, that guy is ignorant or purposely being deceptive.  Many Christians do read and study the Bible daily, and we don't see Christians today stoning anybody to death for anything.  So that's non sense.

NO....Not all were forced to drink poison.  MOST did it on their own weak will.  You do not know the story.  Some who came to their senses at the midnight hour..well it was too late and they were shot as non-believers.

Why is the video deceptive?  That is real proof from your "guide to life" bible.

I'm done.  You think we are blind and we think you are blind.  It will never end.  I don't hate people who believe in Biblical tales.  I just wonder how in utter amazement.  Maybe one day I will "see the light".  It could be possible, who knows,  but until then I am a skeptic till the end.

[loco]

What loco?  You think Christians are the only ones to do that?  The only ones to die for what they believe in?  What an arrogant and ignorant assumption.

Show me where I said that Christians are the only ones who die for what they believe in.  Show me where I said that Christians are the only ones who give up their possessions for what they believe in?  You are so quick to jump at any chance you get to call us arrogant and ignorant. 

I don't even know what you are talking about anymore.  I think you are way off topic now.  I was pointing out that the fact that Jesus' followers first ran and went into hiding after Jesus was arrested and crucified, then suddenly they are preaching the Gospel in the open, selling everything they have and giving it to the poor, willing to be tortured and executed for preaching the gospel is acceptable and sufficient evidence to me that their claim to have seen, spoken to and touched a risen Jesus is true.  You then proceeded to claim similar things happen all the time. 

So I ask you, give me some examples of a religious leader whose followers run and hide after he is killed, then emerged fearless, doing good deeds and spreading this religion peacefully under penalty of death, claiming to have seen, spoken to and touched their risen leader, all having happened around the same time, with not enough time for legends like this to form?

[loco]

NO....Not all were forced to drink poison.  MOST did it on their own weak will.  You do not know the story.  Some who came to their senses at the midnight hour..well it was too late and they were shot as non-believers.

Why is the video deceptive?  That is real proof from your "guide to life" bible.

I'm done.  You think we are blind and we think you are blind.  It will never end.  I don't hate people who believe in Biblical tales.  I just wonder how in utter amazement.  Maybe one day I will "see the light".  It could be possible, who knows,  but until then I am a skeptic till the end.

How do you know that?

And the video is ignorant and deceptive because 1. Christian do read their Bible, 2.  The Bible does not tell Christians to shoot anybody for working on Sunday and 3.  Christians are not shooting anybody for working on Sunday.

The guy is trying to make the Bible and Christianity appear to be dangerous when neither is. 

[Deicide]

How do you know that?

And the video is ignorant and deceptive because 1. Christian do read their Bible, 2.  The Bible does not tell Christians to shoot anybody for working on Sunday and 3.  Christians are not shooting anybody for working on Sunday.

The guy is trying to make the Bible and Christianity appear to be dangerous when neither is. 

The Bible tells us that god wishes that those who work on the Sabbath be slain; it is quite explicit; are you denying this?

[loco]

The Bible tells us that god wishes that those who work on the Sabbath be slain; it is quite explicit; are you denying this?

No, The Bible tells us that God gave ancient Israel that law.  The law and the punishment for breaking it are two different things.  The penalty of death for breaking that law was accepted by the people of Israel of that time.  They did not complain about the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath. 

That was for ancient Israel.  God did not tell Israel to spread Judaism.  God did not tell Israel to go around the world killing homosexuals, adulterers, or anyone who worked on the Sabbath. 

The law is still a good thing, but there is no longer a death penalty for breaking it.

For example, the woman in the New Testament who had just committed adultery and the Jews wanted to stone her to death, then Jesus told them whoever is free of sin cast the first stone.  So they all left.  Then Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more.  So adultery is still a sin and we should still abstain from it, but we should not stone people to death for committing adultery.

And Christians are not bound by the law of Moses like ancient Israel was:

Acts 15:5
5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
Acts 15:8-11
8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
Acts 15:19-20
19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

Romans 3:21-22
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

Romans 2:15
since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

Colossians 2:16-17
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

[OzmO]

Show me where I said that Christians are the only ones who die for what they believe in.  Show me where I said that Christians are the only ones who give up their possessions for what they believe in?  You are so quick to jump at any chance you get to call us arrogant and ignorant. 

I don't even know what you are talking about anymore.  I think you are way off topic now.  I was pointing out that the fact that Jesus' followers first ran and went into hiding after Jesus was arrested and crucified, then suddenly they are preaching the Gospel in the open, selling everything they have and giving it to the poor, willing to be tortured and executed for preaching the gospel is acceptable and sufficient evidence to me that their claim to have seen, spoken to and touched a risen Jesus is true.  You then proceeded to claim similar things happen all the time. 

So I ask you, give me some examples of a religious leader whose followers run and hide after he is killed, then emerged fearless, doing good deeds and spreading this religion peacefully under penalty of death, claiming to have seen, spoken to and touched their risen leader, all having happened around the same time, with not enough time for legends like this to form?

My point was, and still is, what you call significant in that people risking their lives and giving up all their worldly possessions is nothing significant.  It happens all the time.  (all the time being a figure of speech)

Now as far as them touching the risen Jesus.................  Sounds like he never died on the cross to me.   But further more you don't have any proof other then scripture that has been copied many times over from the originals written by primitive people who always in those times had a predisposition to believe in fancy tales.  Hardly proof but instead something that is a belief.

[OzmO]

No, The Bible tells us that God gave ancient Israel that law.  The law and the punishment for breaking it are two different things.  The penalty of death for breaking that law was accepted by the people of Israel of that time.  They did not complain about the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath. 

That was for ancient Israel.  God did not tell Israel to spread Judaism.  God did not tell Israel to go around the world killing homosexuals, adulterers, or anyone who worked on the Sabbath. 

The law is still a good thing, but there is no longer a death penalty for breaking it.

For example, the woman in the New Testament who had just committed adultery and the Jews wanted to stone her to death, then Jesus told them whoever is free of sin cast the first stone.  So they all left.  Then Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more.  So adultery is still a sin and we should still abstain from it, but we should not stone people to death for committing adultery.

And Christians are not bound by the law of Moses like ancient Israel was:

Acts 15:5
5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
Acts 15:8-11
8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
Acts 15:19-20
19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

Romans 3:21-22
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

Romans 2:15
since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

Colossians 2:16-17
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Convenient.  Yet again.