For those that don't believe the Koran is the word of God...

[columbusdude82]

Why do you believe that the Angel Gabirel visited Mary and told her she was going to get pregnant by the Holy Spirit, but don't believe that the Angel Gabirel visited Mohammed and delivered the final revelation of God to him?

Do you have evidence in favor of the first proposition, or against the latter?

[columbusdude82]

Have I no takers?

[gcb]

I have evidence against both - it's called science.

[columbusdude82]

Why do the faithful avoid this thread like the plague?

Or is that just their knee-jerk reaction to words like "evidence"? 

[loco]

Why do the faithful avoid this thread like the plague?

Or is that just their knee-jerk reaction to words like "evidence"? 

Nobody is avoiding it.  In the title of your thread, you seem to be addressing anybody who doesn't believe the Koran is the word of God.  But your post makes it obvious that you are addressing Bible believers.  So the answer to your question is obvious. 

If one believes the Bible is the word of God, one can't also believe that the Koran is also the word of God, because both texts contradict each other.  The Bible says that Jesus is the son of God, while the Koran says that Jesus is not the son of God.  The Bible says that Jesus died for our sins, while the Koran says that Jesus did not die at all.

[columbusdude82]

Do you have evidence in favor of the first proposition, or against the latter?

[loco]

Do you have evidence in favor of the first proposition, or against the latter?

Do I have reasons to believe the first?  Yes.

Do I have evidence?  Yes, though you will find it insufficient or unacceptable of course.  But it is sufficient and acceptable to me.

Do I have proof?  No.

[columbusdude82]

So you are saying your belief is based on unconvincing/insufficient evidence?

Thanks for your honesty and candor

[loco]

So you are saying your belief is based on unconvincing/insufficient evidence?

Thanks for your honesty and candor

Evidence unconvincing and insufficient to you, not to me.  Belief based on faith which comes only from God by His Grace, and not from ourselves.

[columbusdude82]

Are you saying that you have a lower threshold of what is convincing and sufficient evidence?

[loco]

Are you saying that you have a lower threshold of what is convincing and sufficient evidence?

No

[columbusdude82]

So how can you be sure that God didn't send the Angel Gabriel to Mohammed to give him His Final Revelation?

[Decker]

Faith is the stuff one hopes for...it is evidence in the face of no evidence.

It's a matter of belief.  Much like Creationism.

In some cases faith is license to believe if the belief is strong enough.

It's like a microcosm of Chritianity itself:  it denies this world for another--earth/heaven, real/imagined.

[loco]

So how can you be sure that God didn't send the Angel Gabriel to Mohammed to give him His Final Revelation?

How can I be sure?  I have faith that the Bible is the word of God, and the Bible tells me:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

1 John 4:14-15
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

Galatians 1:8
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

[Straw Man]

How can you use the bible to prove the authenticity of the bible?

Would you accept the same tactic from a Muslim who can use the Koran in the same way?

[Decker]

How can I be sure?  I have faith that the Bible is the word of God, and the Bible tells me:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

1 John 4:14-15
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

Galatians 1:8
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Why do you choose to believe these things (Bible is God's word, Jesus is God/son of God)?

[loco]

How can you use the bible to prove the authenticity of the bible?

Would you accept the same tactic from a Muslim who can use the Koran in the same way?

Straw Man, scroll up and read above.  I said that I have no proof.  I have faith.  I am using the Bible to answer columbusdude82's question:

So how can you be sure that God didn't send the Angel Gabriel to Mohammed to give him His Final Revelation?

[columbusdude82]

How can I be sure?  I have faith that the Bible is the word of God, and the Bible tells me:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

1 John 4:14-15
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

Galatians 1:8
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

So you are "sure" because you have faith, not evidence. A faithful muslim also has "faith" that the Koran is the revealed Word of God. He presumably has no evidence either.

What gives?

[loco]

Why do you choose to believe these things (Bible is God's word, Jesus is God/son of God)?

I didn't choose to believe these things any more than an atheist chooses to believe that God does not exist.  One day, while listening to someone speak these things, I just believed.  I started praying, and my life changed.  I just have faith.  Even if I tried not to believe these things, I just do.  If an atheist just can't believe in God, even if he tried, I just can't stop believing these things, even if I tried.  I just have faith.  That faith comes from God, not from me.

Having said that, I see the Bible being unique in many ways: changing mine and other people's life, historical accuracy, prophecy, great advice, Biblical archeology, etc.  Reading, studying it and doing my best to sincerely live by it has changed my life.  If I could choose any life, I would choose this one, my new life in Jesus Christ.

[loco]

So you are "sure" because you have faith, not evidence. A faithful muslim also has "faith" that the Koran is the revealed Word of God. He presumably has no evidence either.

What gives?

I'm going to stick with the Bible.

[Decker]

I didn't choose to believe these things any more than an atheist chooses to believe that God does not exist.  One day, while listening to someone speak these things, I just believed.  I started praying, and my life changed.  I just have faith.  Even if I tried not to believe these things, I just do.  If an atheist just can't believe in God, even if he tried, I just can't stop believing these things, even if I tried.  I just have faith.  That faith comes from God, not from me.

Having said that, I see the Bible being unique in many ways: changing mine and other people's life, historical accuracy, prophecy, great advice, Biblical archeology, etc.  Reading, studying it and doing my best to sincerely live by it has changed my life.  If I could choose any life, I would choose this one, my new life in Jesus Christ.

Thank you for answering that.  I had a similar experience while reading a Walter Kaufman book on Nietszche--the skies opened and the pathway to thinking was opened to me.

I think the Bible offers some beautifully written inspirational words.  I think you will find many detractors when it comes to prophecy though.  That's a tough sell.

[Straw Man]

Straw Man, scroll up and read above.  I said that I have no proof.  I have faith.  I am using the Bible to answer columbusdude82's question:

Sorry I missed that point above

If you have faith then why bother providing excerpts of the bible as proof.

It seems unnecessary and perhaps even an insult to "God"

If God wanted man to have proof of his existence then what would be the value of faith?

[Straw Man]

I think one could apply this formula to any God - Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or any one that man might choose to create in the future.

How to Believe in God
Six Easy Steps

1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in others) to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of “faith.”
6. Return to 2.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sam_harris/2007/09/religion_as_a_black_market_for.html

[loco]

Sorry I missed that point above

If you have faith then why bother providing excerpts of the bible as proof.

It seems unnecessary and perhaps even an insult to "God"

If God wanted man to have proof of his existence then what would be the value of faith?

Straw Man,
Again, I am not using the Bible to prove anything.  I am using the Bible to answer why I don't believe that the Koran is new revelation from God.  If both the Bible and the Koran said that Jesus is not the Son of God, then that would be different.  If both the Bible and the Koran said that Jesus never died, then again, that would be different.  My point is that one says one thing, while the other specifically says the complete opposite about Jesus Christ, the central figure in Christianity.  My point again is that if you believe that the Bible is the word of God, then you can't also believe that the Koran is the too the word of God.  It has to be one or the other.

[Straw Man]

Straw Man,
Again, I am not using the Bible to prove anything.  I am using the Bible to answer why I don't believe that the Koran is new revelation from God.  If both the Bible and the Koran said that Jesus is not the Son of God, then that would be different.  If both the Bible and the Koran said that Jesus never died, then again, that would be different.  My point is that one says one thing, while the other specifically says the complete opposite about Jesus Christ, the central figure in Christianity.  My point again is that if you believe that the Bible is the word of God, then you can't also believe that the Koran is the too the word of God.  It has to be one or the other.

would you say that Muslims who believe the Koran is the word of God are delusional or just misinformed... or something else?