Author Topic: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'  (Read 38327 times)

The_Iron_Disciple

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2007, 02:46:49 AM »
I cry when i think how much improved Sergio Oliva could have become if he stayed with Arthur


Me too ... I believe Sergio even said ( this is not Verbatim, although close ), " I experienced amazing results with Arthur ... I couldn't believe how big I was ... I remember looking waking up one Morning, looking into the Mirror and thinking to myself, " HOLY SHIT, I'M HUGE ! " ". Again, something close to this is what he said ... so, I too, cry when I think about how big Sergio could have been if he had stayed with Arthur.  :'(

Rome

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2007, 05:17:15 AM »
it seems that each generation has the hardest training guy.


arnold
platz
gaspari
yates
coleman

now.......??


hardest ever?

i would have to say ronnie and dorian.

not many could keep up with ronnie, eventhough he didnt push himself as hard as yates.

not many could keep dorian's routines and strict form.

strict form and forced reps = brutal.


goes to show; two of the best are also two of the hardest.
That's hitting the nail on the head, could not agree more! :)

BEAST 8692

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2007, 05:42:20 AM »
wes

i read the article by defendis on the link you provided.

very interesting read but i have no doubt it was embellished as oldtimers with big egos tend to do. they hate to think someone could be better than they were, even with modern technological and pharmaceutical enhancements, so they exaggerate and romanticise.

defendis let slip a contradiction which i found amusing. when he was talking about his first day at michalik's gym he related how there was a plaque on the wall with words to the effect of 'upping the dosage' and a syringe for a pen. then later he romanticises how, back in his day bbers trained like animals and only took minimal doses of steroids for recovery purposes. ::)

i've read that michalik was a sadistic egomaniac and a bully, which is probably consistant with the article. also read that he treated his wife in much the same fashion, only with more violence. the guy definitely had some screws loose.

it's a shame articles like these are so sensationalized or that there is never a totally unbiased account of the way these guys trained, because it would have been very more interesting to read that.

apparently michalik was supposed to be in pumping iron and, for some reason, was completely cut out of the documenatry. do you know why? definitely would have been cool to have the pumping iron crew show us the real hardcore bbers at steve's gym.

Bluto

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2007, 05:47:14 AM »
would be interesting to know how far dorian and ronnie would have gone if they didnt train so hard

Z

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2007, 05:53:55 AM »
Hardest trainer?
Without question the answer is get bigs own , beloved Vince Melvin Goodrum.

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Van_Bilderass

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2007, 05:56:01 AM »
it's a shame articles like these are so sensationalized or that there is never a totally unbiased account of the way these guys trained, because it would have been very more interesting to read that.
It's a shame many champions never taped their workouts for posterity. I'd pay good money for footage of Platz training in his prime, for example.

Even a modern bb like Yates only left 1 workout tape. A shame.

Bluto

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2007, 05:58:03 AM »
It's a shame many champions never taped their workouts for posterity. I'd pay good money for footage of Platz training in his prime, for example.

Even a modern bb like Yates only left 1 workout tape. A shame.

Fortunately

Nasser El Sonbaty put out no less than SEVEN workout tapes, kinda makes up for the ones missing from Platz and Yates  :)
Z

BEAST 8692

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2007, 06:43:12 AM »
It's a shame many champions never taped their workouts for posterity. I'd pay good money for footage of Platz training in his prime, for example.

Even a modern bb like Yates only left 1 workout tape. A shame.

i will believe unbiased reports from several witnesses of a truly high intensity workout. he's been mentioned on this thread but i have no doubt the account of casey viator's hit session where he performed non-stop, leg extensions with entire nautilus stack - 750lb leg presses (approx 25 reps) - 500 + lb ass to the grass squats 11 reps. the reason i can believe it is because so many unbiased people witnessed it eg, arnold and sergio were both there and gave the exact same account as arthur jones and others. thing is, it was not in sergio or arnold's interest to give an account of a man that completely annihilated anything they had ever been able to do in the gym. the fact that sergio did the same workout but much less weight and actually passed out by the time he got to the squats and couldn't complete the reps, even when the weight was reduced to 135lbs (in fairness, this was very early on in oliva's time spent with jones.

i also believe it because casey only had to do this giant set once which makes perfect sense ie knowing that he only had to do one set of each and with his intensity and energy fresh (he was also fond of pre workout methamphetamines as most hit guys were back then) he trained like an animal going absolutely balls out ie you can train long or hard, you can't do both (despite what Milos says ::)).

the weights casey was using for the reps (and we're not talking 1" rom like so many of these 'hard trainers' have proven on youtube - evidence is a beautiful tool for the deluded), the sequence and zero rest in between (apparently he was carried to each apparatus with jones yelling his ear off the whole time) pushed casey's heart rate up to 250 bpm by the end of the sequence (recorded by jones for posterity) which would indicate that he truly was going balls out and it wouldn't have been possible to do another giant set, never mind 50 more.

arthur jones belaboured the point that if you had enough energy to do a second set, you didn't train hard enough in the first and imo he was dead right.

probably the easiest way of explaining this is to look at running sprints. i could have a top flight competitor train sprints with brief rests in between, say 1 minute, hell make it 2, for 10 100 metre intervals.

i could scream at this man at the top of my lungs and make threats, etc and, there is no doubt, the man will be absolutely convinced he's training balls out. i could even be convinced, but i guarantee you 100% that come race day against the top competitors in the world, that man will run the 100 much faster than he did during any one of those 10 intervals (including the 1st). why? because he knows conciously and subconciously he only has one sprint to run and he must do his best. not what he or i absolutely believes is his best, but his B E S T.

ever seen a reporter try to talk to a maurice green after the gold medal race at the olympics? try not even being able to form a sentence for about 10 minutes. then ask him to run it again in under 10 seconds. he'll tell you to go take a flying fuck. now hold a gun to his head and tell him to do it or him and his family are dead. guess what? you still won't get your sub 10 seconds. why? refer above.

you see, this is a physiological fact and one that i still can't believe i was arguing with Milos about around the time of his first seminar. the 'mind' was telling me that it was possible to sprint a marathon and that i was simply 'weak minded' not to believe him. all i can say is, just as well for Milos he and his boys take a lot of drugs, because his training theories are seriously flawed.

this is also why i take the michaliks, milos' and defendis' of the world with a grain of salt. there's one and only one only thing that correlates between their machismo fuelled insanity sessions and their results and that's the sign on the wall that says, 'up the dosage'.

kevcat

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2007, 10:13:45 AM »
great post beast

mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2007, 12:16:34 PM »
not even close....
coleman..
dorian reminds me of those guys that come in the gym and try to look intense...
or try to look hardcore...
coleman is focused but his demeaner covers..
anyone watch bfto 2003 did you notice coleman eatin before traing as he was walking through the gym door he turned back and look at a flex magazine article with him gunter and culter... 3 m4n and a sandow thats when everyone was sayin coleman was done when gunter "beat"  ::) him at the gnc 2002
i can tell he looked at the article to motivate himself even more ..
ive watched blood and guts and while it is good the hardcore is too fake reminds me of branch warrens dvd..
try to look hard and intimidating.. and all that... can see through that a mile away
anyway
coleman by a country mile.. his videos speak for themselves..
make everybody else look like little girls..
choice is an illusion

England_1

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2007, 12:22:46 PM »
not even close....
coleman..
dorian reminds me of those guys that come in the gym and try to look intense...
or try to look hardcore...
coleman is focused but his demeaner covers..
anyone watch bfto 2003 did you notice coleman eatin before traing as he was walking through the gym door he turned back and look at a flex magazine article with him gunter and culter... 3 m4n and a sandow thats when everyone was sayin coleman was done when gunter "beat"  ::) him at the gnc 2002
i can tell he looked at the article to motivate himself even more ..
ive watched blood and guts and while it is good the hardcore is too fake reminds me of branch warrens dvd..
try to look hard and intimidating.. and all that... can see through that a mile away
anyway
coleman by a country mile.. his videos speak for themselves..
make everybody else look like little girls..


Uh, no kid.

Yates was training like that long before that video came out and long before he first competed in the Mr. Olympia. There was nothing fake or wannabe about Yates' training. Who do you think he was there to impress?  ::) He was down in his own basement gym training with no one else there. You seriously need to get off of Coleman's nuts. There's no doubt Coleman trained hardcore. But Yates was more hardcore. He did everything to the T. He pushed his body farther than any BB has ever done. Coleman's physique was more a result of Chad Nicholls than anything else.
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mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2007, 12:40:54 PM »
Uh, no kid.

Yates was training like that long before that video came out and long before he first competed in the Mr. Olympia. There was nothing fake or wannabe about Yates' training. Who do you think he was there to impress?  ::) He was down in his own basement gym training with no one else there. You seriously need to get off of Coleman's nuts. There's no doubt Coleman trained hardcore. But Yates was more hardcore. He did everything to the T. He pushed his body farther than any BB has ever done. Coleman's physique was more a result of Chad Nicholls than anything else.

ok first thing first...
im not a kid...
i dont care how long yates was training... ive seen him train on video... and from what i see he is cool.. but nowhere near coleman....
i am a verrrry serious trainer myself... yates reminds me of those guys.. who come to the gym with a big huge bag and the xxxl top and the chalk for the look.. just stating my opinion..
soleman just goes in does his thing doesnt have to try to look overy serious.. and still out lifts everyone by a country mile...
also the chad thing that point is moot
but a point yu might want to consider..
coleman is also a genetic freak...
moreso than yates... by far..
thats why he can appear jovial and out lift every pro ...
while we they are staring at the ground not talkin burning with intensity..
its all about genetics.. i guarantee you ates took sterids at a way yunger age than coleman..
dobson has said on video colmans arms were 20 inches... when he walked into his gym and coleman wasnt on the juice  then.. can we same the same for yates... ???
exactly so dont even bring up the chemical argument..
also what i say about the intensity of them both is not fact that is my opinion.. i respect yours you respect mine..
cheers
mesi
choice is an illusion

England_1

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2007, 12:47:32 PM »
ok first thing first...
im not a kid...
i dont care how long yates was training... ive seen him train on video... and from what i see he is cool.. but nowhere near coleman....
i am a verrrry serious trainer myself... yates reminds me of those guys.. who come to the gym with a big huge bag and the xxxl top and the chalk for the look.. just stating my opinion..
soleman just goes in does his thing doesnt have to try to look overy serious.. and still out lifts everyone by a country mile...
also the chad thing that point is moot
but a point yu might want to consider..
coleman is also a genetic freak...
moreso than yates... by far..
thats why he can appear jovial and out lift every pro ...
while we they are staring at the ground not talkin burning with intensity..
its all about genetics.. i guarantee you ates took sterids at a way yunger age than coleman..
dobson has said on video colmans arms were 20 inches... when he walked into his gym and coleman wasnt on the juice  then.. can we same the same for yates... ???
exactly so dont even bring up the chemical argument..
also what i say about the intensity of them both is not fact that is my opinion.. i respect yours you respect mine..
cheers
mesi


Actually, I can guarantee you Coleman was on juice well before Yates.

Coleman was juicing as a middle linebacker at Grambling University. Yates at age 21 was still a skinny member of the Skins.

Oh, and Brian said he was "natural" on his interview recently. Of course, he said until 1998. By that he means Coleman didn't use insulin and HGH  ;)

Also, what does the "look" have anything to do with it?

If Yates was trying to be hardcore he would have trained like Coleman, sloppy form and throwing around weights far too heavy.

You're right about the genetics though.....that's proves why Yates was a harder training BB. He had less to work with and had to work harder to get to the top. Coleman was nothing great until he got a drug guru.
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mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2007, 12:53:12 PM »
coleman was always great but overlooked...

i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...
even on drugs...
without drugs coleman could have a impressive phsique could yates? not to me
so go figure
coleman said on video brian offered him free membership etc to encourage him to be a bber
 but he didnt want to be a bber because he knew that involved taking steroids.....
thats on his first video.. so he wasnt taking steroids at the time....
dont speculate
choice is an illusion

England_1

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2007, 01:01:56 PM »


i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...


Just as I suspected. The bias is at play as usual.

Your perception of the physique has nothing to do with the matter of this thread. Yates was more hardcore. Period.
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The Squadfather

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2007, 01:08:51 PM »
coleman was always great but overlooked...

i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...
even on drugs...
without drugs coleman could have a impressive phsique could yates? not to me
so go figure
coleman said on video brian offered him free membership etc to encourage him to be a bber
 but he didnt want to be a bber because he knew that involved taking steroids.....
thats on his first video.. so he wasnt taking steroids at the time....
dont speculate

no offense Meso but if you look at the early pictures of Yates after just a couple of years training drug free his physique resembles the way yours looks now, he looked great then like you do.

mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2007, 01:13:34 PM »
so my opinion means im biased.. that would suggest you are biased too no...
and i guess because you said yates is more hardcore period
the period on the end makes the statement more true??
 ;D ;D
ok we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...
you think yates... is more hardcore... i can live with that
..
and i think ronnies training made yates look like a girl.. ;)

choice is an illusion

mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2007, 01:17:14 PM »
no offense Meso but if you look at the early pictures of Yates after just a couple of years training drug free his physique resembles the way yours looks now, he looked great then like you do.
naw man
uh uh..nothing close for one...
arms and chest
mr arms are a pumped 19..
what were yates...
what ere they even on stage i estimate 20 21.. and thats after juicing like 10 men
ive got a tiny waiste...
...
me and yate phsique of early have nothing in common...
another thing i respected about yates phsique was his condition
looked rock dense
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The Squadfather

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2007, 01:17:53 PM »
so my opinion means im biased.. that would suggest you are biased too no...
and i guess because you said yates is more hardcore period
the period on the end makes the statement more true??
 ;D ;D
ok we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...
you think yates... is more hardcore... i can live with that
..
and i think ronnies training made yates look like a girl.. ;)


Ronnie is absolutely more hardcore than Yates no doubt about it, in my opinion more weight with good form on every exercise=more hardcore, period.

England_1

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2007, 01:22:13 PM »
This is hardcore training

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mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2007, 01:22:47 PM »
form is  objective  people have diff bodies and diff things work for them
eg dorian never used to squat??
he did rack deadlifts...
and look at his form on bbr rows more like a standing shrug...
those things work for him.. not locking out worked for coleman.. and jay and 70% of bbers if you wath the dvd's they never lock out.... and they have built their phsiques on that..
when you have so small guy in the gym doing what he thinks is proper form and locking out.. go figure?
choice is an illusion

The Squadfather

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2007, 01:23:26 PM »
This is hardcore training


damn right it is but to say it's more intense than Ronnie deep front squatting 585 isn't true.

England_1

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2007, 01:23:51 PM »
150lb DB shoulder press at a bodyweight 50lbs less than Coleman in CoR only doing 160s.

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mesmorph78

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2007, 01:24:55 PM »
This is hardcore training


why because the picture is black and white and he has a headband on...

i legpress...
so do you...
take a picture is it not hardcore too...
...
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England_1

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Re: 'Hardest training bodybuilder'
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2007, 01:25:26 PM »
With Coleman's form, Yates would have BB row 585lbs

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