"System" QBs getting the Heisman?

[Cap]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=3145177

   
Heisman candidates could make history -- and change minds
Maisel

By Ivan Maisel
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: December 7, 2007

 
The awarding of the 2007 Heisman Memorial Trophy that will take place Saturday night (ESPN, 8 p.m. ET) will make history no matter which of the four finalists wins. Tailback Darren McFadden of Arkansas and quarterbacks Colt Brennan of Hawaii and Chase Daniel of Missouri each would be the first player from his school to win the Heisman.

Tim Tebow could become the Heisman's first underclassman recipient.

Quarterback Tim Tebow of Florida would make history, too. All 72 of the previous winners have been juniors or seniors. Tebow, a sophomore from Jacksonville, is the favorite to win, which makes him the favorite to break through the barrier that has prevented past sophomores from winning.

In 1944, Army halfbacks Glenn Davis and Doc Blanchard finished two-three behind Ohio State back Les Horvath.

In 1973, Buckeye tailback Archie Griffin rushed for more yards (1,428) and scored more touchdowns (six) than he did as a senior in 1975, when he won his second Heisman (1,357 yards, four touchdowns). Griffin finished fifth in the Heisman vote as a sophomore.

In 1985, Lorenzo White of Michigan State rushed for more yards (1,908) than the winner, Bo Jackson of Auburn (1,786). White finished fourth.

In 2003, Larry Fitzgerald of Pittsburgh caught 92 passes for 1,672 yards and 22 touchdowns, and finished second to Oklahoma quarterback Jason White.

Whether he wins or not, Tebow already has made history in a couple of ways. For one, as has been well documented, he became the first player in Division I-A history to run for 20 touchdowns and throw for 20 touchdowns in one season. For another, Tebow, together with Brennan, Daniel and Oregon's Dennis Dixon, brought into the open the debate over what exactly is a "system quarterback."

In the past, the term has been used to diminish the inflated statistics of players who run spread offenses. Texas Tech quarterbacks have thrown for at least 4,200 yards in five consecutive seasons in coach Mike Leach's offense, yet none of them has gotten enough votes to merit serious consideration for the Heisman.

The apprehension dates back nearly 20 years. In 1989, Houston quarterback Andre Ware led the nation with 4,699 yards and 46 touchdown passes. Ware won a close Heisman vote over tailback Anthony Thompson of Indiana. But Ware's struggle in the NFL cast a shadow over the shotgun, run-and-shoot and spread quarterbacks who came after him.

The phrase "system quarterback" stuck its nose into the lexicon.

This season, when nearly all the top quarterbacks have come out of these offenses, may have taken some of the condescension out of the voice of everyone who utters the phrase.

"If there is a system quarterback, then we're all dumb. We should be running that system," said Oregon offensive coordinator Chip Kelly, who took over the Duck offense for this season and transformed Dixon into one of the best players in the nation. "I hear that all the time. Obviously, some guys flourish in one program. Matt Ryan [of Boston College] is not going to come in and run the spread. He's a helluva quarterback."

• Enlarge

Colt Brennan

Paul Jasienski/Getty Images

Colt Brennan has a chance to become Hawaii's first Heisman winner.

Hawaii coach June Jones created controversy a few days ago by referring to Tebow as coming out of a system. Jones, attempting to clarify his remarks, said he had no intention of demeaning Tebow, whom he called "a great quarterback who'll probably win [another] national championship."

But Jones said Tebow is more of a system quarterback than Brennan.

"My quarterback [Brennan] has been labeled a 'system quarterback' for three years," Jones said Monday, according to a transcription on the school's Web site. "He is the best passer in college history. He is. There is no question about it. Tim Tebow is in a system. … Colt Brennan plays in an NFL passing game. You can dial it up and see that it is not a system. Tim Tebow's system is a college system."

Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville's roots are in defense. His Tigers limited Tebow to 201 passing yards, his second-lowest total this season, and held McFadden to 43 rushing yards, his lowest total of the season. Tuberville said all quarterbacks are system quarterbacks.

"Look at Gino Torretta," said Tuberville, referring to the 1992 Heisman-winning quarterback from Miami. Tuberville coached the linebackers on that team. "He was the product of a system he ran for five years. He learned how to run it. Tebow was the old single wing quarterback. He just ran the ball and threw it. You can score 20 [rushing] touchdowns if, every time you get the ball inside the five, they call your number."

Tuberville thinks McFadden should win the Heisman but that Tebow will win it. If the sophomore wins Saturday night, he will make history. He may also make "system quarterback" a term that can be used in polite company.

Ivan Maisel is a senior writer for ESPN.com. Send your questions and comments to Ivan at ivan.maisel@espn3.com.


The only thing I have to say is that if Tebow is a "system" QB then so is Brennan.  Chang had similar numbers in his career and is doing nothing now. 

[CARTEL]

Didn't Crouch win a Heisman as a system quarterback? He ran the option.

Tebow isn't a "system" qb to me.

[body88]

Tim T faces the toughest defenses in the country. The kid has over 50 tds total.


As for system's. Did anyone ask Jones what Timmy Chang has done since he left the UH "system".

[K-1]

Every team has an actual system, but I've always referred to system QB's as the ones who are in prolific passing systems specifically designed for amassing tons of yards in the air that never pan out or cross over anything remotely close to what they did before earning the label "system QB" without that system...the guy is terrible and simply cannot adjust to anything else physically, mentally or both.

Nevada, Hawaii, Texas Tech, Spurriers Fun N gun offense at florida. Tim Couch Kentucky, LA Tech....etc. These QB system guys 100% NEVER pan out at all.

Remember David Klingler, Andre Ware, Mike Maxwell, Tim Rattey, Danny Weurffell, kliff Kingsbury.

Give it to the soph. Tebow I say.

Mcfadden won't be as good as most think in the league either. Just wanted to add that.   

[Earl1972]

yes heisman winners are "system" guys

how many recent heisman winners have had nfl success?

even reggie bush is a disappointment

E

[CARTEL]

That's because good players usually end up on shitty teams.

[Earl1972]

That's because good players usually end up on shitty teams.

other than bush what recent heisman winner was drafted high?

oh and the saints made the nfc title game last year and true good players make their team better

E

[Dos Equis]

Chang had similar numbers in his career

No he didn't.  Not even close.  I believe Brennan will finish with the highest career completion percentage in college football history.  I think he was either close to or broke the single season efficiency rating last year.  His TD to INT ratio is insane.  No comparison at all. 

[Cap]

No he didn't.  Not even close.  I believe Brennan will finish with the highest career completion percentage in college football history.  I think he was either close to or broke the single season efficiency rating last year.  His TD to INT ratio is insane.  No comparison at all. 

In terms of outrageous passing numbers they are both high up.

Leinart is doing shit because he is hurt and on a shit team.  Bush is now injured but he was never a RB to pound the ball in between the tackles so I don't know why anyone is surprised he isn't now.

[CARTEL]

other than bush what recent heisman winner was drafted high?

oh and the saints made the nfc title game last year and true good players make their team better

E

Not always. Football isn't like basketball where you can just have one guy step in and change the game. A great quarterback or runningback ain't doing nothing without a good line. A great receiver can't do much if a qb can't give him the ball.

[Dos Equis]

In terms of outrageous passing numbers they are both high up.

Leinart is doing shit because he is hurt and on a shit team.  Bush is now injured but he was never a RB to pound the ball in between the tackles so I don't know why anyone is surprised he isn't now.

Cap if you look at the numbers, there is no comparison.  In addition to what I said earlier about completion percentage, etc., here are some other numbers:

Chang
2436 attempts, 17,072 yards, 117 TDs, 80 INTs, 6 rushing TDs

Brennan
1546 attempts, 14,024, 131 TDs, 39 INTs, 15 rushing TDs

Brennan has 14 more TDs on 890 fewer attempts.  He has 41 fewer INTs.  He has 9 more rushing TDs.

I don't think anyone can objectively look at the numbers and say they are comparable.  Brennan is head and shoulders better. 

I watched almost every game Chang played and UH and I've seen every snap Brennan has taken.  They are not the same at all.  Chang had a stronger arm and quicker release (the quickest release I've ever seen other than Marino), but his footwork was sloppy and he too often made poor decisions, which is why he had 80 INTs.  Chang was good and he improved a lot his last year, but he couldn't carry Colt's jock (and I like Timmy). 

Brennan is probably the most accurate passer in college football history.   

[Cap]

BB, all I'm saying is the outrageous passing numbers, not so much the other stats.  Don't make me go red herring on your ass.     Lol

[Dos Equis]

BB, all I'm saying is the outrageous passing numbers, not so much the other stats.  Don't make me go red herring on your ass.     Lol

lol.  So, what, I don't get my own thread?  It has been a couple weeks already since I've had my own.  I'm starting to feel a little neglected.  Can you send 240 a PM?   

I understand what you're saying.  Just providing some context.  You cannot simply look at passing yardage and draw a conclusion.  Look at all of the numbers. 

[Earl1972]

Not always. Football isn't like basketball where you can just have one guy step in and change the game. A great quarterback or runningback ain't doing nothing without a good line. A great receiver can't do much if a qb can't give him the ball.

but these guys often end up on other teams and they still stink ie david carr

E

[CARTEL]

but these guys often end up on other teams and they still stink ie david carr

E

I agree. It could be they were never that good but it could also mean that they never developed because of being on a crap team.