"He is the One"

[Tre]

She is backing him only because he is black. 

That's a very dangerous and grossly inaccurate statement.

[240 is Back]

That's a very dangerous and grossly inaccurate statement.

i calledf him on it with the alan keyes example.
he claimed keyes had no chance.
i pointed out that keyes took 3rd in iowa.
then he got really quiet.

[Cap]

i calledf him on it with the alan keyes example.
he claimed keyes had no chance.
i pointed out that keyes took 3rd in iowa.
then he got really quiet.

Because talking about things with does not become a discussion, you just say anything to feel "right" in your argument.  I'd rather talk to a wall half the time because you twist my arguments and pick out what you like blatantly ignoring the rest.

Keyes had no chance of winning the Repub nomination that year despite your stats.  Colin Powell would have had a better chance.

Tre-that is a statement I feel to be correct and everyone is afraid to say it.  She has stronger ties to her race than she does with Hilary as another woman.

[240 is Back]

Because talking about things with does not become a discussion, you just say anything to feel "right" in your argument.  I'd rather talk to a wall half the time because you twist my arguments and pick out what you like blatantly ignoring the rest.

Keyes had no chance of winning the Repub nomination that year despite your stats.  Colin Powell would have had a better chance.

Tre-that is a statement I feel to be correct and everyone is afraid to say it.  She has stronger ties to her race than she does with Hilary as another woman.

Your argument - She supports him because he is black - has zero evidence.

My argument - She passed up top black candidates in the past - has evidence.

You have your gut feeling and an assertion that a person who gets 3rd in Iowa cannot win the presidency.  I challenge you to see what Clinton, Bush1 and 2 placed in Iowa. 

[Tre]

Tre-that is a statement I feel to be correct and everyone is afraid to say it.  She has stronger ties to her race than she does with Hilary as another woman.

Suggesting that Oprah is torn between supporting 'another woman' vs 'another Black' is just ridiculous.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see how badly the Republicans have mismanaged national affairs in the past 5 years, so Oprah looked for a half-decent Democrat to support.  They refused to give her a truly electable candidate...Obama is closest to what she'd like to see, so that's why he's got her support. 

The fact that the Democrats couldn't come up with a viable candidate in the 7 years since Bush took office is proof that they aren't ready to run the country.

[Cap]

Your argument - She supports him because he is black - has zero evidence.

My argument - She passed up top black candidates in the past - has evidence.

You have your gut feeling and an assertion that a person who gets 3rd in Iowa cannot win the presidency.  I challenge you to see what Clinton, Bush1 and 2 placed in Iowa. 

She passed up black candidates in the past; okay, let's analyze that.  A liberal black person not supporting a black Republican who would not have been elected, makes sense to me.  If there was another black candidate that had a chance to get elected on a Dem ticket (other than Obama in this election) she would have backed him; big reason why she wouldn't support a guy like Sharpton.  What's your point?  If their politics don't match up and he doesn't have a chance to win, why back him?  He is a black dude who the media have turned into a golden boy with a chance to win so she throws her name out there.

Keyes lost because he was a black man against white dudes in the Republican party who had better connections.  You really think all those southern Republicans would have voted for him?  I don't.

Tre-you don't think so.  The Dems have a chance to win next year and these two can (unfortunately) do it.  I definitely think that is what it boils down to for Oprah.  I always said we will see a black male president before a female and the golden boy image Obama has with Dems led to Oprah endorsing the "black man with a chance". 

The two of you can spare me all you want.  If Obama was not a black man this would be a non issue.  Now enjoy spending minutes coming up with witty self-righteous retorts but it won't change anything.  Apparently race doesn't play a factor in anything. 

[240 is Back]

She passed up black candidates in the past; okay, let's analyze that.  A liberal black person not supporting a black Republican who would not have been elected, makes sense to me.  If there was another black candidate that had a chance to get elected on a Dem ticket (other than Obama in this election) she would have backed him; big reason why she wouldn't support a guy like Sharpton.  What's your point?  If their politics don't match up and he doesn't have a chance to win, why back him? 

You said she backed him because he was black.

Now you're saying that she backed him because he's black, AND because he's a democrat.

You've already undermined yourself.

[Cap]

You said she backed him because he was black.

Now you're saying that she backed him because he's black, AND because he's a democrat.

You've already undermined yourself.

  Aside from her recent bad press, what separates the two in terms of politics?  This should have already been implied in your mind (as it was in mine) but a liberal black woman in Hollywood is not going to back a Repub candidate so if you consider the Hollywood trend and politics are the same, what else is there aside from skin color?

I know you like to feel superior and smart but save the "I want to win" attitude.  If you would have read my argument from the beginning instead of twisting it then we would be on topic still. 

[240 is Back]

  Aside from her recent bad press, what separates the two in terms of politics?

which 2?

[240 is Back]

  Aside from her recent bad press, what separates the two in terms of politics?  This should have already been implied in your mind (as it was in mine) but a liberal black woman in Hollywood is not going to back a Repub candidate so if you consider the Hollywood trend and politics are the same, what else is there aside from skin color?

I know you like to feel superior and smart but save the "I want to win" attitude.  If you would have read my argument from the beginning instead of twisting it then we would be on topic still. 

Party affiliation should have been implied in my mind?  Why would it?  You made it a strictly racial thing.

"She is backing him only because he is black.  "

You removed party affiliation from the discussion with this qualifier.

[Cap]

which 2?

My apologies, Hilary and Obama.

Party affiliation should be implied because Hollywood and the black community are predominantly Liberal/Democrats.  I stand by my remarks because nothing else sets him apart from Dems. 

[youandme]

"She is backing him only because he is black.  "

You first implied it as she is seen as "taking away" from Clinton's normal vote.

So are you saying Oprah takes no black votes or drives no new race votes to Obama?

[Cap]

You first implied it as she is seen as "taking away" from Clinton's normal vote.

So are you saying Oprah takes no black votes or drives no new race votes to Obama?

That and all the idiots who buy books because she "endorses" them.  She makes books become top sellers simply because she backs them.  Black people and others of color love Oprah and will vote for her candidate.  She backed him over Hilary (same politics) because he is black and people follow suit, not to mention they feel like they are doing the "right" and "progressive" thing by voting for him.

[youandme]

That and all the idiots who buy books because she "endorses" them.  She makes books become top sellers simply because she backs them.  Black people and others of color love Oprah and will vote for her candidate.  She backed him over Hilary (same politics) because he is black and people follow suit, not to mention they feel like they are doing the "right" and "progressive" thing by voting for him.

That is what I am saying. There is strong evidence that Oprah is doing this to prop the black female voters (with emphasis on skin color).

Oprah mentions black and decker as a good company the stock jumps 15%, oprah says she is going to start a vegetable diet the meat company sues her.

How do you say it's not because she wants him to win, Clinton's past African American vote? That is their target audience, does not take a rocket scientists to figure that crap out, pure and simple marketing.

"Progressive" that is another token word Oprah used in a choppy speech. It's actually coming out how she is not a good pun on words for the political arena.

New Hampshire, Iowa...who cares...can we say Gore and Dean. South Carolina is what matters.

In the end this Hollywood hooray will hurt Obama, America is getting ever tired of Hollywood's antics and decision making....ask Barbara Walters

[240 is Back]

She backed him over Hilary (same politics) because he is black and people follow suit, not to mention they feel like they are doing the "right" and "progressive" thing by voting for him.

People don't just choose a candidate because of his/her politics.

They also choose a candidate for his/her leadership and decision making ability, even if they don't always agree with his/her positions on issues.

Obama had foresight to condemn the war in Iraq when everyone else was gung-ho.

He was right all along.  He had the same info as everyone else, and made the RIGHT decision.  Hilary and most of the others did not.  People may choose Obama because he makes good decisions, is a washington outsider, has no history of corruption like Hilary does, etc.

[Cap]

People don't just choose a candidate because of his/her politics.

They also choose a candidate for his/her leadership and decision making ability, even if they don't always agree with his/her positions on issues.

Obama had foresight to condemn the war in Iraq when everyone else was gung-ho.

He was right all along.  He had the same info as everyone else, and made the RIGHT decision.  Hilary and most of the others did not.  People may choose Obama because he makes good decisions, is a washington outsider, has no history of corruption like Hilary does, etc.

According to you, aside from the deaths, the war was the right decision that will ensure your/my/our way of life for at least our life times and our kids.  So what's the big deal?

[240 is Back]

According to you, aside from the deaths, the war was the right decision that will ensure your/my/our way of life for at least our life times and our kids.  So what's the big deal?

Ah, so my personal view on the war is in some way relevant to the argument that Oprah only backs Obama because of his race?

Monster red herringage.

[Cap]

Ah, so my personal view on the war is in some way relevant to the argument that Oprah only backs Obama because of his race?

Monster red herringage.

Lol.  It is because you talked about his political stance.  I responded to that portion of your post where you talked about him taking the "right" stance on the war.  As they say in court, "you opened the door counselor".  No red herring, simple response.

[240 is Back]

Lol.  It is because you talked about his political stance.  I responded to that portion of your post where you talked about him taking the "right" stance on the war.  As they say in court, "you opened the door counselor".  No red herring, simple response.

his position - that iraq posed no WMD threat - was the historically correct one, and therefore the 'right' one.

Typically, we don't assign the word 'right' to a position later decimated by lots and lots of evidence.  Some even use the word 'wrong'.


So, counselor, his stance was "right" in the factual, not the partisan, sense.  Your rebuttal?

[Cap]

his position - that iraq posed no WMD threat - was the historically correct one, and therefore the 'right' one.

Typically, we don't assign the word 'right' to a position later decimated by lots and lots of evidence.  Some even use the word 'wrong'.


So, counselor, his stance was "right" in the factual, not the partisan, sense.  Your rebuttal?

Maybe you should have been explicit in your argument the first time, the same way you posted about my not mentioning politics in reference to Oprah's support. 

Regardless, that doesn't make him qualified to lead this country.  With what you have posted prior about the war being good for the future, would you support him because he voted this way?  Should this be the only reason people vote for him?  There are other pressing issues in addition to the war so I really don't think that choosing not to kill other Muslims makes him a great candidate.

[240 is Back]

Maybe you should have been explicit in your argument the first time, the same way you posted about my not mentioning politics in reference to Oprah's support. 

Regardless, that doesn't make him qualified to lead this country.  With what you have posted prior about the war being good for the future, would you support him because he voted this way?  Should this be the only reason people vote for him?  There are other pressing issues in addition to the war so I really don't think that choosing not to kill other Muslims makes him a great candidate.

I never said he was qualified. 

I said that some voters will choose him because of his past deeds, not just proposed policies.

There are lots of reasons not to vote for him, which you brought up even though they are not related to thie discussion.  I don't think he's got the spine to be president - I think he's soft.  I don't think anyone running from either party is perfect for the job.  I have very high standards for my president.    I'd like to see a PhD with a 180 IQ who can pass a morality polygraph.  Wouldn't you?

[Cap]

I never said he was qualified. 

I said that some voters will choose him because of his past deeds, not just proposed policies.

There are lots of reasons not to vote for him, which you brought up even though they are not related to thie discussion.  I don't think he's got the spine to be president - I think he's soft.  I don't think anyone running from either party is perfect for the job.  I have very high standards for my president.    I'd like to see a PhD with a 180 IQ who can pass a morality polygraph.  Wouldn't you?

That means very little to me, except for the morality but even moral men become corrupt in office.  I want someone who can inspire a country, make the Presidency something to value and someone with life experience.  I'd like to see a normal Joe win.

I consider his voting record part of his politics.  Nothing sets Obama apart from others besides his religion and skin color, one of which Oprah shares.

[240 is Back]

That means very little to me, except for the morality but even moral men become corrupt in office.  I want someone who can inspire a country, make the Presidency something to value and someone with life experience.  I'd like to see a normal Joe win.

Most normal joes cannot comprehend nor flourish in the highest stress job in the world.
Most top candidates are very successful and worldly and know how the world works.  Think about most joe 6-packs you know.  smoke a little pot, steal a little from work, try their best, maybe cheat on the missus, save not enough... should I go on?  I want a smart, confident, moral person controlling the "button" and the economy my grandkids will inherit.  Not some "normal joe" with 2 years of community college.

I consider his voting record part of his politics.  Nothing sets Obama apart from others besides his religion and skin color, one of which Oprah shares.

Weird.  You consider his voting record part of his politics.
You said he and hilary have identical politics.
They voted opposites on the war.

Logic error found.

[Tre]

Apparently race doesn't play a factor in anything. 

Oh, but it does.

Your argument that Oprah supports Obama 'because he's Black' doesn't wash.

But you and I both know millions of Americans will vote against Obama 'because he's Black'. 

[youandme]

Oh, but it does.

Your argument that Oprah supports Obama 'because he's Black' doesn't wash.

But you and I both know millions of Americans will vote FOR Obama 'because he's Black'. 

Fixed, works both ways