Dorian Yates training back, as of november,2007!!!

[Van_Bilderass]

challenge for the day: take another look at video footage of dorian actually rowing 400+, except this time try looking at the bar movement, his body position and the plane of motion, as opposed to just the usual focusing on his nutsack.

hint: if dorian's form on 400+ rows was so good, why did he tear a bicep while performing what is supposed to be a back exercise?...

oh, "because he was pre-contest"?...hmm, how come ronnie was able to do the same exercise + about 80lbs more weight + apparently 'sloppy form' PRE-CONTEST and not tear his bicep

oh... that's right, you're full of shit again.

From what I've seen his form didn't change much at all when he added weight.

It's possible that the strict motion was one of the reasons for his tears. There was tremendous tension when the muscle was extended fully. Unlike Coleman where he uses momentum and swinging to get the weight moving. Coleman kicked with his legs to get the weight moving. Dorian pulled with the back and arms only.

Dorian was a machine when training. Like a piston moving up and down. Precise movements.

[BEAST 8692]

From what I've seen his form didn't change much at all when he added weight.

It's possible that the strict motion was one of the reasons for his tears. There was tremendous tension when the muscle was extended fully. Unlike Coleman where he uses momentum and swinging to get the weight moving. Coleman kicked with his legs to get the weight moving. Dorian pulled with the back and arms only.

Dorian was a machine when training. Like a piston moving up and down. Precise movements.

you haven't seen much then.

he stood up straighter, elbows lower and the rom was shorter.

he was bloody strong and it was good rom for the weight, but let's not be naive here.

the reverse grip was not the problem and certainly not in the extended position (think ronnie's underhand on a pre-contest 800lb deadlift - bicep remained intact).

the problem may well have been dorian's form. pulling that weight and attempting to hold it at the top of the movement put unnecessary strain on the bicep muscle.

ronnie did use some body momentum as any extremely strong individual does. he was simply using his brain. trying to do stupid and unnecessary intensity techniques with very heavy weights is not. you don't see andy bolton attempting a super slow negative with a 1000lb deadlift.

at the end of the day, ronnie used much heavier weights than dorian and, funnily enough, had a lot more muscle tissue on his frame than dorian did, so comparing how they happened to move the weights is the moot point.

still, dorian was considered the world's best built man...with a badly torn bicep!...

[local hero]

Ive seen the majority of training tapes and dvds and ive yet to see a bodybuilder use the same prescise form with there top weights as yates did,, there've been many stronger but all were bouncy reps, he was always in control of the weight used

[Triple-H_2005]

I'll prerface this by saying that Dorian is my all-time favorite bodybuilder.

Dorian Yates was the hardest-training human being I've ever seen.

Ronnie Coleman is NOT human!  He is/was a specimen unto himself.

[Van_Bilderass]

you haven't seen much then.

he stood up straighter, elbows lower and the rom was shorter.

What I meant was that he stood in the same angle throughout his weight pyramid up to the heaviest set. Yes he stood quite erect. However, he didn't jerk the weight and then lower his torso to meet the bar like Coleman and Johnnie Jackson do for example.

[bigkid]

The underhand grip was the reason for Yates's tear.  He switched to overhand and was fine. 

[England_1]

1) Coleman rows with an overhand grip. When you use a reverse grip and supinate the forearm, you bring the biceps into play. Try doing a strict reverse barbell row and a sloppy, swinging overhand. The difficulty of the lift and the stress on the biceps is blatantly obvious in favor of the Yates row if you have ever tried these exercises

2) Yates notes that he took his barbell rows to utter failure. When he could no longer perform full reps he would do 1/2 reps, then 1/4 reps until finally the bar would no longer move. Now imagine doing this with 455 lbs and on a reduced calorie diet. 

[HUGEPECS]

The shadow still looks good. good thread

[The Squadfather]

The shadow still looks good. good thread

yeah i'm surprised, he still looks to be carrying good size, i'd guess 225-230.

[England_1]

The revisionist history from this groupie is priceless-obviously he was right there with Yates for every workout.

Damn good form here considering the weight, but not strict.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26wpu_rowing-yates_extreme

How much stricter do you want it?  As strict as Coleman I suppose? 

415lbs considering his latissimus was already heavily exhausted from several hard sets of pulldowns and machine rows combined with textbook form is elite.

Show the godfather of muscle some respect 

[Option D]

Using a full range of motion with heavy weight can damage joints.   Partial range of motion is enough stimulation.

for real?

[Cap]

The revisionist history from this groupie is priceless-obviously he was right there with Yates for every workout.

Damn good form here considering the weight, but not strict.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26wpu_rowing-yates_extreme

Strictest Barbell Rows I've seen on a pro considering the weight.

[delta9mda]

anything negative said about Yates is shit talking.

[pumpster]

anything negative said about Yates is shit talking.

Talk about blanket statements.

[swilkins1984]

Dorian is 44-45 carrying a lean 230 or so lbs at 5'9". Looks great.

[BEAST 8692]

the overhand grip still very strongly affects the biceps (anyone with an understanding of kinesiology would know that). the problem was that the underhand grip + rom + plane of motion + intensity technique ie attempting to hold and slow movement excessively, caused his biceps excessive and unnatural strain.

if it was only the combination of underhand grip + great tension (weight), then powerlifters (who use one underhand hook) would be tearing biceps all the time. as i implied, bolton would have tore his biceps years ago, and don't give me the pre-contest nutrient debit bullshit again because ronnie was using an underhook pre-contest pulling 800lbs (twice as much weight as yates) and when you combine the expolsive and ballistic power that ronnie ripped it off the ground (as opposed to dorian's slower, more controlled movement) the bicep on the underhand grip, going on the theories expounded here, should have popped like a balloon at a 6 year olds birthday party.

again, it wasn't the total tension (alone) on the underhand grip that caused the tear, it was dorian's intensity techniques and form + the other factors that tore it.

when he switched to an overhand grip, his rom was actually lower if you compare clips with similar weight being used (there is no point at all comparing clips of him demonstrating without the tension factor and not using weights that challenge him).

note: i'm not questioning dorian's credentials, knowledge or success. i would be a fool to do so, the guy was mr o. i'm strictly and only commenting on what imo caused the man's bicep tear and questioning whether it was necessary to perform the cauing protocol to develop his back (seeing as it was his bicep that ruptured)

[Van_Bilderass]

if it was only the combination of underhand grip + great tension (weight), then powerlifters (who use one underhand hook) would be tearing biceps all the time. as i implied, bolton would have tore his biceps years ago, and don't give me the pre-contest nutrient debit bullshit again because ronnie was using an underhook pre-contest pulling 800lbs (twice as much weight as yates) and when you combine the expolsive and ballistic power that ronnie ripped it off the ground (as opposed to dorian's slower, more controlled movement) the bicep on the underhand grip, going on the theories expounded here, should have popped like a balloon at a 6 year olds birthday party.

I'm pretty sure Ronnie said that he injured the bicep on the supinated arm on the 800 deadlift. That bicep was down in size after that.

Andy Bolton has torn his bicep as well, back in 1999. Bicep tears in the supinated arm is very common among powerlifters. Often it happens because they bend the arm instead of using it as a hook.
Here's a pretty recent clip where a powerlifter tears a bicep (on the supinated arm):

[BEAST 8692]

I'm pretty sure Ronnie said that he injured the bicep on the supinated arm on the 800 deadlift. That bicep was down in size after that.

Andy Bolton has torn his bicep as well, back in 1999. Bicep tears in the supinated arm is very common among powerlifters. Often it happens because they bend the arm instead of using it as a hook.
Here's a pretty recent clip where a powerlifter tears a bicep (on the supinated arm):

true, but once you bend that arm, that is when you put the bicep in the precarious position with the other factors ie tension, contributing.

simply having the hand supinated and placed under tension (while safely performing the exercise ie no unnatural movements) has proved to be quite safe. accidents will happen occasionally, but more often than not, it's how you move the tension than the tension itself. i seem to recall dorian saying that, because of his lack of concentration while dieting his form went askew. makes sense when you consider the enormous amount of strain his intensity techniques was causing.

[BEAST 8692]

god damn, just watched that, but i can see how he caused excessive strain on his supinated bi, arm was bending more as he completed the lift.

[England_1]

the overhand grip still very strongly affects the biceps (anyone with an understanding of kinesiology would know that)

No it doesn't. The biceps only comes into play if you supinate your forearm.

If you want proof of this go do a standard barbell curl and a reverse grip barbell curl. You will use much greater poundages on the former because the latter is only employing the brachioradialis.

[sculpture]

No it doesn't. The biceps only comes into play if you supinate your forearm.

If you want proof of this go do a standard barbell curl and a reverse grip barbell curl. You will use much greater poundages on the former because the latter is only employing the brachioradialis.

Bollocks! Do a reverse grip barbell curl, overhand pulldown or chin up and you willsee that the biceps gets a strong pump without "supination".

I can't believe we need to point that out.

Biceps functions:
1. arm flexion
2. arm supination

You donn't need to supinate to involve the biceps.

[England_1]

Bollocks! Do a reverse grip barbell curl, overhand pulldown or chin up and you willsee that the biceps gets a strong pump without "supination".

I can't believe we need to point that out.

Biceps functions:
1. arm flexion
2. arm supination

You donn't need to supinate to involve the biceps.

The biceps are playing a greatly diminished role whenever your forearm is not supinated. Again, this is why you chins ups are easier than pullups. Are you claiming that reverse grip barbell curls and overhand barbell curls involve the biceps to the same degree? 

[Trev]

Anyone know Dorian's current training routine? Is he still doing high intensity etc etc ?

[England_1]

Anyone know Dorian's current training routine? Is he still doing high intensity etc etc ?

I believe he has said he trains 3 days a week now. But he is focusing on his health and not size. He is doing a lot more martial arts, boxing, cardio, etc.

[Trev]

I believe he has said he trains 3 days a week now. But he is focusing on his health and not size. He is doing a lot more martial arts, boxing, cardio, etc.

Cheers Mate. Just wondered as he looks better now than in his heyday. Congrats Dorian