thank you jeff,,but my friend you must know that all the eggwhites and oatlmeal in the world wont help you without hormones. just look at waddy, mattc, ta and others here to see that whether ecto meso or endomorph,,,all growth is finite after 3-4 years of training unless hormones are added to program,,,others here like joelocal give better example because nonhormonize bb cannot stand at 5'7 and 200 lbs at 6%. see the difference.