Author Topic: National ID Cards  (Read 4926 times)

bebop396

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National ID Cards
« on: December 20, 2007, 08:56:50 PM »
Who will be first in line to get one in May of 08, and who will say screw that, im taking a stand?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 09:16:13 PM »
screw that, I'm taking a stand and I don't give a shit what they do.  I will not get one.

figgs

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 10:33:01 PM »
Give me liberty of give me death! Fuck that shit!
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Purple Aki

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2007, 10:36:12 PM »
screw that, I'm taking a stand and I don't give a shit what they do.  I will not get one.



Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2007, 09:32:27 AM »

kh300

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2007, 09:44:57 AM »



is that the guy with the shovel from home alone?

OzmO

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2007, 09:59:03 AM »
Whats the BIG deal with getting a National ID card?

I have a passport and Driver's license, why shouldn't i want to get one?

Dos Equis

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2007, 10:02:30 AM »
Whats the BIG deal with getting a National ID card?

I have a passport and Driver's license, why shouldn't i want to get one?

I agree.  We all have social security cards/numbers too. 

headhuntersix

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2007, 04:17:58 PM »
Fine don't get a card...I say they take ur friggen license, cut off ur power and basically do whatever else to screw u. Nodoy else is these socialist utopia's u fawn over, have a problem with "paper"..stop whining.
L

figgs

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2007, 04:42:26 PM »
Whats the BIG deal with getting a National ID card?

I have a passport and Driver's license, why shouldn't i want to get one?

You give up one right and you lend yourself to being convinced to give up even more. Doesn't anyone believe their lives have value anymore? My god, we're losing touch with our with our true relationship with nature and personal power. I grieve for you.
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JBGRAY

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2007, 04:47:29 PM »
I make my stand as well.  I will not get one.  A driver's license is enough.  A social security card is enough.  A workplace ID is enough.  A school ID is enough.  I don't need another card, especially one that would contain my medical, political, driving, and other sensitive information.  Take into consideration as well increased vulnerabilities to scams.  Some good info on the National ID card:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/136/national-id-cards-wont-stop-terrorism-or-illegal-immigration/

http://www.news.com/FAQ-How-Real-ID-will-affect-you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html

The UK is apparently doing the same thing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3127696.stm

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2007, 04:53:58 PM »
screw that, I'm taking a stand and I don't give a shit what they do.  I will not get one.

Haha! You're stuck in the USA! ;D
I hate the State.

OzmO

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2007, 05:28:35 PM »
You give up one right and you lend yourself to being convinced to give up even more. Doesn't anyone believe their lives have value anymore? My god, we're losing touch with our with our true relationship with nature and personal power. I grieve for you.
?
What right am i giving up?

Really, i'm just trying to understand this, becuase the issue seems moot becuase i and you have already many forms of ID's.

Try and be specific with out being condescending or overly dramatic in your pity.

Can you give me some real specific reasons?  Or is all you have to answer with rhetorical?

kh300

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2007, 06:26:34 PM »
ill take one. and ill wear it around my neck on an american flag lanyard

Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2007, 06:39:03 PM »
Have some of you conservative types who get blown out of shape over unnecessary government spending checked the price tag to TAX PAYERS for this BS?  Beach Bum :D

Real ID will cost more than $11 billion to implement.
http://www.aamva.org/aamva/DocumentDisplay.aspx?id={055B37F6-E619-4ACE-AAEC-10CC9F79CB1A}

I also find it a little odd that I should have to carry around all sorts of personal data in a chip on a card that can be accessed from some kind of total information awareness database.  It's bad enough what they want to put on the cards to start with, gun registrations?  WHY?  What's the next step past this?  What will they want to have next?  Where's the proof that this will help prevent terrorism?  There is no actual proof this 11 billion dollar waste will do shit other than serve to have complete information on individuals accessed with great ease.


Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 06:44:27 PM »
Haha! You're stuck in the USA! ;D
No, I guess if we won't be able to do anything unless we have "our papers" to show, I'll be leaving.  Not by choice, but by necessity.  Not like it would be hard, the borders are wide open :D  yet here we are requiring things like this to catch terrorists...  Sure I buy it lol... not... 

Dos Equis

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2007, 06:46:47 PM »
Have some of you conservative types who get blown out of shape over unnecessary government spending checked the price tag to TAX PAYERS for this BS?  Beach Bum :D

Real ID will cost more than $11 billion to implement.
http://www.aamva.org/aamva/DocumentDisplay.aspx?id={055B37F6-E619-4ACE-AAEC-10CC9F79CB1A}

I also find it a little odd that I should have to carry around all sorts of personal data in a chip on a card that can be accessed from some kind of total information awareness database.  It's bad enough what they want to put on the cards to start with, gun registrations?  WHY?  What's the next step past this?  What will they want to have next?  Where's the proof that this will help prevent terrorism?  There is no actual proof this 11 billion dollar waste will do shit other than serve to have complete information on individuals accessed with great ease.



Did someone mention further waste of my tax dollars?  Now you have my attention.   :)  I perused the link.  This sounds like national standards for state-issued driver's licenses, not a national ID card issued by the federal government.  Part of the war on terror.  Did I read that right?  

Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2007, 07:15:27 PM »
Did someone mention further waste of my tax dollars?  Now you have my attention.   :)  I perused the link.  This sounds like national standards for state-issued driver's licenses, not a national ID card issued by the federal government.  Part of the war on terror.  Did I read that right?  
Am I missing something or are they not the same thing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act#Data_requirements

Regardless, this is going to cost a lot.  It's not JUST nationa standards for driver's licenses from what I read.

Quote
Portions of the Real ID Act pertaining to states were scheduled to take effect on May 11, 2008, three years after the law passed, but the deadline has been extended to December 31, 2009[11].

On January 25, 2007, a Resolution passed overwhelmingly in the Maine Legislature that refuses implementation of the Real ID Act in that State, and demands Congress repeal the law. Many Maine lawmakers believe the law does more harm than good, that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to enforce, is threatening to individual privacy, makes citizens increasingly vulnerable to ID theft, and would cost Maine taxpayers at least $185 million in five years because of the massive unfunded federal mandates on all the states. The Resolution vote in the Maine House was 137-4 and in the Maine Senate unanimously, 34-0. [12]

On February 16, 2007, Utah unanimously passed a resolution which opposes the REAL ID Act[13]. The resolution states that REAL ID is "in opposition to the Jeffersonian principles of individual liberty, free markets, and limited government." It further states that "the use of identification-based security cannot be justified as part of a 'layered' security system if the costs of the identification 'layer'--in dollars, lost privacy, and lost liberty--are greater than the security identification provides."

Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Washington have joined Maine in passing legislation opposing Real ID.[14][15][16][17][18]

Similar bills are pending in Alaska, Massachusetts, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Kentucky, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island, Washington, D.C., Wyoming and Vermont.[19]

Other states have moved aggressively to upgrade their IDs since 9/11, and still others have staked decidedly pro-Real ID positions, such as California [20],North Carolina[21] and New York. In announcing the new regulations, Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff cited California, Alabama and North Dakota[22] as examples of states that had made progress in complying with Real ID.

New York's new policy of issuing driver's licenses to undocumented residents upon presentation of a valid foreign passport goes against the requirements for documentation of legal status and a valid Social Security Number.


Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2007, 07:18:39 PM »
"Honolulu is in a unique position, the only city that produces driver licenses for an entire state," said Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann. "We appreciate Senator Akaka's invitation to offer our perspective on the impact of Real ID for the taxpayers of Hawaii."  Hannemann testified that it would cost Honolulu an estimated "$25.55 (M) million over a 5-year period if this law were implemented."

http://akaka.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Home&month=3&year=2007&release_id=1609

Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2007, 07:21:19 PM »
REAL ID FACT SHEET

It’s a national identity system. The standardized national driver’s licenses created by Real ID would become a key part of a system of identity papers, databases, status and identity checks and access control points – an “internal passport” that will increasingly be used to track and control individuals’ movements and activities.

Will not be effective against terrorism. The fact is, identity-based security is not an effective way to stop terrorism. ID documents do not reveal anything about evil intent – and even if they did, determined terrorists will always be able to obtain fraudulent documents (either counterfeit or real documents bought from corrupt officials).

Will be a nightmare for state governments. Real ID requires state governments to remake their driver’s licenses, restructure many of their computer databases and other systems, create an extensive new document-storage system, and – perhaps most difficult of all – verify the “issuance, validity and completeness” of every document presented at DMVs. See Real Burdens.

Will mean higher fees, long lines, and bureaucratic nightmares for individuals. Because Congress ordered but did not pay for these mandates, which will cost states billions of dollars,  fees on individuals applying for driver’s licenses will inevitably rise, perhaps steeply. Individuals are also likely to confront slower service, longer lines, and frequent bureaucratic snafus in obtaining these ID cards. Many unlucky individuals will find themselves caught in a bureaucratic nightmare as they run up against the complexities of this law.

Increased security and ID-theft risks. The creation of a single interlinked database as well as the requirement that each DMV store copies of every birth certificate and other documents presented to it will create a one-stop shop for identity thieves.

Will be exploited by the private sector to invade privacy. Real ID would make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Already, bars often swipe licenses to collect personal data on customers – but that will prove to be just the tip of the iceberg as every convenience store learns to grab that data and sell it to data companies for a dime.

Will expand over time. The Real ID database will inevitably, over time, become the repository for more and more data on individuals, and will be drawn on for an ever-wider set of purposes. Its standardized machine-readable interface will drive its integration into an ever-growing network of identity checks and access control points – each of which will create new data trails that will in turn be linked to that central database or its private-sector shadow equivalent.

http://www.consumercal.org/issues/realidtestimony/

Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2007, 07:29:41 PM »
What I'm reading is not only Nazi-ish sounding, but a clear waste of money with zero real shown benefit to the war on terror.  It's a war on something for sure.

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2007, 07:44:50 PM »
No, I guess if we won't be able to do anything unless we have "our papers" to show, I'll be leaving.  Not by choice, but by necessity.  Not like it would be hard, the borders are wide open :D  yet here we are requiring things like this to catch terrorists...  Sure I buy it lol... not... 

The expat's life can't be beaten, I tell you. Things would have to change massively for me to even consider living in the USA again.
I hate the State.

figgs

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2007, 08:57:49 PM »
It's a war on something for sure.

Personal liberty.

?
What right am i giving up?

Really, i'm just trying to understand this, becuase the issue seems moot becuase i and you have already many forms of ID's.

Try and be specific with out being condescending or overly dramatic in your pity.

Can you give me some real specific reasons?  Or is all you have to answer with rhetorical?

I'm sorry. I often get emotionally worked up about seeing our country slip through our fingers. We need these sort of emotions if we're to prepare for this sort of thing. I just shouldn't be displacing it.

Berserker posted great info, answering my question.

And check this out. National ID card is one step further towards and RFID chip.

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Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2007, 09:27:21 PM »
Personal liberty.

I'm sorry. I often get emotionally worked up about seeing our country slip through our fingers. We need these sort of emotions if we're to prepare for this sort of thing. I just shouldn't be displacing it.

Berserker posted great info, answering my question.

And check this out. National ID card is one step further towards and RFID chip.


They'll flip out on that video.  These guys come unglued at anything conspiracy related.  However in regards to RFID, that's an option that is up to Homeland Security to decide and they have talked about it and clearly like the idea.

The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.

In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: National ID Cards
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2007, 09:34:42 PM »
Here's a real beef to have with this national id card:  They left it open to whatever Homeland Security feels like requiring on the thing and on the chip.  Yea, on anything in a freedom loving society, you never hand parts of government a blank check to write in whatever they want.  The room for abuse is there and I'm just not one to say, oh, they just have our best interest at heart, it's our government and they wouldn't do anything to jeopardize us.  BAH...  Don't doubt that absolute power corrupts absolutely--it does every single time.  No "whatever you want" fill-ins for government.  That's crazy and has no place here.