Author Topic: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax  (Read 14026 times)

OzmO

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Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« on: December 24, 2007, 10:40:04 AM »
Hmmm   Please discuss, i think i kind of like it.

Political suicide? Quite the opposite for the GOP White House hopeful -- so far. But many call the plan for a national levy 'crackpot' (even if it would shut down the IRS).

By Janet Hook, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 24, 2007


WASHINGTON -- Mike Huckabee, one of the most conservative Republicans in the 2008 presidential race, has embraced one of the most radical ideas on the campaign trail: a plan to abolish all federal income and payroll taxes and replace them with a single 23% national sales tax.

The idea -- dubbed the "fair tax" by proponents -- has been a political asset for Huckabee; its well-organized backers have helped catapult him from the back of the presidential pack to its top tier.

Sales tax proponents have tapped into seething voter hostility toward the Internal Revenue Service to become a below-the-radar political force, popping up at campaign events and candidate forums in Iowa and elsewhere.

The efforts on Huckabee's behalf by sales tax advocates helped spur his surprise second-place showing in an August Iowa straw poll -- the breakthrough that marked the beginning of his rise in the state and nationwide.

He is the only major presidential candidate to make the idea central to his campaign. "The first thing I'd love to do as president: Put a 'going out of business' sign on the Internal Revenue Service," he said at one debate.

Some wonder, however, whether his embrace of the plan eventually could turn into a liability.

The sales tax proposal has been around for years but languished on the fringes of practical politics and policy. Tax professionals generally regard the idea as impractical, regressive and even "crackpot," as one critic puts it.

It has gone nowhere in Congress. The 2005 Presidential Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform soundly rejected the idea. And many politicians shy away from it because it is easy for opponents to portray it as a huge tax increase -- as Democrats did in a 2006 Senate race in South Carolina.

The front-runner, Republican Jim DeMint, faced an unexpectedly stiff contest because of his support for a national sales tax. "DeMint wants an extra 23% on nearly everything -- gas, food, clothing," one Democratic ad said.

DeMint responded that his position was being misrepresented, but he still suffered a sharp decline in the polls. He won in the end, but what many thought would be a cakewalk for him turned into a cliffhanger.

Grover Norquist, a conservative activist who, as head of Americans for Tax Reform, pushed candidates to take a no-tax-hike pledge, said promoting a national sales tax in the presidential election would be "political poison."

Still, the proposal inspires grass-roots passion, in large part because it would replace or abolish the Internal Revenue Service, one of the most hated federal agencies and a symbol of intrusive government in some conservative circles.

Among the early advocates of a national sales tax were members of the Church of Scientology, a group that battled the IRS for years to gain recognition as a legitimate religious institution eligible for tax-exempt status. Church leaders backed the establishment of Citizens for an Alternative Tax System in 1990 to advance the cause of replacing the income tax with a national sales tax.

Eventually, the church won tax-exempt status and the group faded. But the issue was taken up by another group, Americans for Fair Taxation -- better known as Fairtax.org -- founded in 1995 by a group of Texas millionaires.

Proponents of a national sales tax say it would be an improvement over the current system because it would increase the incentive to save, by taxing money spent instead of money earned.

Also, the proposal would rid the tax code of its myriad loopholes and would free taxpayers and businesses from the time-consuming, often costly task of preparing annual tax returns.

"What we would do with the fair tax is to eliminate all the taxes on productivity, which means you could earn anything you want," Huckabee said. "You wouldn't be penalized for saving, earning, for having a capital gain, making an investment."

Huckabee and Fairtax.org call for a 23% tax on virtually all purchases in place of federal income taxes, as well as payroll taxes to fund Social Security and Medicare.

To ease the effect on the poor, they propose a "prebate" -- a monthly cash payment to every family -- to cover sales taxes on spending up to the federal poverty level.


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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2007, 10:44:05 AM »
oh my goodness...

this will crash the economy...

you just have no clue...

The poor CANNOT afford it.  They'll stop buying.  The market will crash.  This will cause the rich (smug that they're saving 35% of thei money every year) to lose AT LEAST 35% of their net worth as the DOW drops to 9000 or worse.


Guys, the poor and mid class are already spending damn near everything they make.  So they'll buy about a quarter less stuff when this happens.  They'll still spend all their money, thye'll just buy less.  The market will drop when WMT and others see sales drop 25% and they stop ordering as much from suppliers.  Picture EVERY MARKET in america dropping 25%. 

It's hucks' way of grabbing the RICH repub base for the primary.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2007, 10:48:37 AM »
240 is right.

Any flat tax rate is a major tax increase on the poor.

Huckabee is pushing the same rightwing garbage with a smile and a "golllyyy"

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 10:53:23 AM »
Any flat tax rate is a major tax increase on the poor.

And it's a retirement fund decrease for the middle class.  And an portfolio tax on the rich.  Most people here aren't poor, so they might not give a shit about the poor class.  But, if they care about their own 401k or mutuals, they'll give a shit if the market drops a quarter or a third because american elective spending damn near stops in Q1 of the Huck Admin. 

I used to LOVE the idea of a flat tax.  Seems fair, and it is.  But, since our system is very bottom heavy (lots more poor folk than millionaires), a flat tax will cripple us.

On the other hand, perhaps it'll be worth it when the supporters see their assets fall 50% in three years and many american firms move overseas where people actually CAN afford to buy things.  The potential for "OWNED" graphics on pictures of former millionaires would be amusing.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2007, 11:04:41 AM »
Quote
oh my goodness...

this will crash the economy...

you just have no clue...

The poor CANNOT afford it.  They'll stop buying.  The market will crash.  This will cause the rich (smug that they're saving 35% of thei money every year) to lose AT LEAST 35% of their net worth as the DOW drops to 9000 or worse.


Guys, the poor and mid class are already spending damn near everything they make.  So they'll buy about a quarter less stuff when this happens.  They'll still spend all their money, thye'll just buy less.  The market will drop when WMT and others see sales drop 25% and they stop ordering as much from suppliers.  Picture EVERY MARKET in america dropping 25%.

It's hucks' way of grabbing the RICH repub base for the primary.



Wrong ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !


The poor would still hardly pay any taxes, just as they dont now,

 If you took the time to read up on it, you would see that.

read :  http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

But many of the people who dont pay any taxes on their income, like the mafia and etc...   they would start paying taxes

read :   http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Details :   http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/FairTax-Fundamentals_and_facts-070122.pdf

Low-income households experience a 26.7 percent welfare gain under the FairTax
• Middle-income households experience a 10.9 percent welfare gain
• High-income households experience a 4.7 percent welfare gain



and from :  http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#3



# How does the FairTax protect low-income and lower-middle-income families and individuals?

Under the FairTax Plan, poor people pay no net FairTax at all up to the poverty level! Every household receives a rebate that is equal to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, and wage earners are no longer subject to the most regressive and burdensome tax of all, the payroll tax. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a tax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today.

Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow, thus harming low-income people the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.



Ron Paul supports it :  http://easylink.playstream.com/fairtax/RonPaul-FairTax.wvx

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2007, 11:08:31 AM »
I like the concept, although 23 percent sounds pretty high.  Sort of a pay as you go.  Gives people a lot more control over their money.   

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2007, 11:34:24 AM »
wrong !

The poor would still hardly pay any taxes, just as they dont now,

 If you took the time to read up on it, you would see that.

read :  http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1866.cfm


It depends on how you define poor.  First of all a word on the Heritage Foundation.  It's a fraud organization that has been shown to be disingenuous in its work product.  Daniel Mitchell is a supply-side nightmare.

Now on to the Fair sales tax.  It's a tax cut for the well to do and a tax hike for nearly everybody else that pays taxes.  That's a matter of fact.

How about buying a new car for $30,000?  With the Fair Tax, that car is almost $40,000.  Spread out those payments with interest and you'll see what I mean.

Are you liquid enough to buy a car with one payment?  The wealthy are.

Kiss off your deductions and write-offs.  They are gone.

How about buying a hundred dollars of groceries for the week....make that $123 plus State and Local taxes.

Won't a 23% sales tax create a massive Black Market for goods?

The country can't afford wasting time with this kind of nonsense.




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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 11:44:14 AM »


...# How does the FairTax protect low-income and lower-middle-income families and individuals?

Under the FairTax Plan, poor people pay no net FairTax at all up to the poverty level! Every household receives a rebate that is equal to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, and wage earners are no longer subject to the most regressive and burdensome tax of all, the payroll tax. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a tax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today.

Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow, thus harming low-income people the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.[/color]
The destitute poor already pay no federal taxes.  No change there.


A "rebate"?  So this welfare program.  Great they can afford the 23% markup on every single product they buy.


"Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow, thus harming low-income people the most."  That's funny.  More supply-side bullshit.  No proof but it sounds good.



Ozark

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2007, 11:51:33 AM »
Quote
Quote
It depends on how you define poor.  First of all a word on the Heritage Foundation.  It's a fraud organization that has been shown to be disingenuous in its work product.  Daniel Mitchell is a supply-side nightmare.

link the proof of this fraud , don't just say it. 
waiting........


Now on to the Fair sales tax.  It's a tax cut for the well to do and a tax hike for nearly everybody else that pays taxes.  That's a matter of fact.

nice try, but wrong again Lib,the poor would pay less than they do now,  , so would the middle class, 



How about buying a new car for $30,000?  With the Fair Tax, that car is almost $40,000.  Spread out those payments with interest and you'll see what I mean.

Are you liquid enough to buy a car with one payment?  The wealthy are.

Kiss off your deductions and write-offs.  They are gone.

and kiss off the IRS !

How about buying a hundred dollars of groceries for the week....make that $123 plus State and Local taxes.

you are keeping more of your paycheck, in the long run, you pay less,  what is not to like about that ?
plus the poor will pay less that they do now, yes this is a fact, something you libs dont like


Won't a 23% sales tax create a massive Black Market for goods?

you mean like doing away with the IRS ? you mean like doing away with offshore accounts to hide money , nice try lib

we arleady are taxed when we buy things. 

The country can't afford wasting time with this kind of nonsense.

better to just elect Hillary and get a tax increase on the middle class as well as the rich, yes, just as her husband raised taxed on the middle class

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2007, 11:56:58 AM »
ozark, no offense, but you're not actually arguing the points of decker.

you're just saying things like "nice try lib" which don't really help the debate.

How do you prove your belief that the poor who already don't pay taxes, suddenly faced with a 23% increase in everything they buy, will be BETTER OFF?

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2007, 11:58:40 AM »
The destitute poor already pay no federal taxes.  No change there.

and so what is the problem ?


A "rebate"?  So this welfare program.  Great they can afford the 23% markup on every single product they buy.

once again, people would pay less than they do now.


"Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow, thus harming low-income people the most."  That's funny.  More supply-side bullshit.  No proof but it sounds good.

you libs are funny,
you love to talk shit, with nothing to back it up, I have posted the link to the Fair Tax, people on here can read the facts, good or bad, all Decker does it spout his bullshit, with no facts


For the record, I dont like Huckebee, I am for Ron Paul, who would do away with the income tax altogether.
but if the only 2 choices were what we have now, and the Fair Tax, I would vote for the fair tax in a heartbeat.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2007, 12:02:01 PM »
Quote
ozark, no offense, but you're not actually arguing the points of decker.

you're just saying things like "nice try lib" which don't really help the debate.

How do you prove your belief that the poor who already don't pay taxes, suddenly faced with a 23% increase in everything they buy, will be BETTER OFF?

240, I posted links to detailed info,

just take a minute 240, and read about the fair tax, before taking a side

and what has Decker done , but give his opinion ?

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2007, 12:02:31 PM »
once again, people would pay less than they do now.

How?

Manufacturers and sellers would suddenly have a huge fixed cost ADVANTAGE by operating at 75% capacity?  COmpletely ass-backwards.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2007, 12:10:15 PM »

Quote
Manufacturers and sellers would suddenly have a huge fixed cost ADVANTAGE by operating at 75% capacity?  COmpletely ass-backwards.


240,

Do you pay any sales tax now at the store when you buy something ?   YES

The system is already in place

if you would pay less taxes than you do now,  and we would do away with the IRS, how is this bad ?

look at all the people who make millions in the drug business, that dont pay any to the IRS,  well they do buy things , so they would be brought into the stream and start paying their fair share, thus lowering our share.

now if maybe you dont pay your true taxes on your income currently, then I could see why you might not like it.
but for the honest people, it is a better system, as you pay less.

maybe 240, does not report all the website income he makes ( hint hint)  so this would not be good for him.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2007, 12:20:44 PM »
240, do you pay any sales tax now at the store when you buy something ?

the system is already in place

if you would pay less taxes than you do now,  and we would do away with the IRS, how is this bad ?

look at all the people who make millions in the drug business, that dont pay any to the IRS,  well they do buy things , so they would be brought into the stream and start paying their fair share, thus lowering our share.

now if maybe you dont pay your true taxes on your income currently, then I could see why you might not like it.
but for the honest people, it is a better system, as you pay less.

maybe 240, does not report all the website income he makes ( hint hint)  so this would not be good for him.

i'm scared shitless of the I, the R, and the S.  I saw family members underpay, and family members get nailed for the rest of their lives for it.  Much of my work comes from monthly contracts with bigger firms, so my SS goes in to the system and I get a pile of W-2s anyway.  So it's not that I"m trying to dodge anything. 

I worry that the tens of millions of people who don't have much money - and spend all of it on good every week - are suddenly going to start buying 25% less goods.

Throw taxes out the window - these bottom 30 mil don't pay them.  But, they are very important to our society, as they pay a FIXED chunk of our national sales every year.  This will drop significantly from the intro of the 23% alone.  Then it'll drop again when their hours get cut by 25% (they're in the service sector and services are the first thing neglected as they are often elective costs).

When Forbes came up with his 17% number in 1992 (?) I LOVED it.  I really did.  But when I realized that there are tens of mil of poor people who already spend everything they have - and they keep the economy afloat - and I see that they're about to lose 25% of their buying power, it worries me.


Decker

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2007, 12:22:25 PM »
Type "heritage foundation" and "discredited" or "disingenuous".

How does paying 23% on every purchase compare to paying 10% or 15% on one's entire income?

Just b/c you say anything conclusive means nothing.

Are you foolish enough to think that there will be no enforcement/collection infrastructure with the demise of the IRS and implementation of the Fair Tax?

Oh that's right, proponents of the fair tax say there won't be a problem.

And you believe them.

Offshore accounts are irrelevant to a new Black Market for untaxed products. 

Why don't you inform us of the numbers that support your Fair Tax?

Simply linking another page for support is what cowards do to avoid a discussion.

I showed you the idiocy of the Fair Tax by pointing out the insanely high cost of goods and that poor and lower middle class people already pay a much lower rate with deductions under the present progressive tax scheme.

You've shown me nothing but foolish talk.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2007, 12:27:17 PM »

240,

Do you pay any sales tax now at the store when you buy something ?   YES

The system is already in place

if you would pay less taxes than you do now,  and we would do away with the IRS, how is this bad ?

look at all the people who make millions in the drug business, that dont pay any to the IRS,  well they do buy things , so they would be brought into the stream and start paying their fair share, thus lowering our share.

now if maybe you dont pay your true taxes on your income currently, then I could see why you might not like it.
but for the honest people, it is a better system, as you pay less.

maybe 240, does not report all the website income he makes ( hint hint)  so this would not be good for him.
You really have no understanding what you are talking about.

Who enforces the sales tax?

Why should drug dealers pay 23% for new products when they can buy black market items with zero tax?

Do you even think before you type?

How do you pay less when an income tax rate of 0% or 10% or 15% is substantially less than 23%?  Is it all those rebate checks?

We'll pay for those with good intentions.

How about social security which is funded with 12% payroll tax paid by all workers?

That's right, we'll cover the cost of that with the 23% sales tax.

How about the hundreds of billions for the military--don't worry, Ozark has a plan!

A 23% sales tax.

I'd go on but this crap has been peddled before.  It was unworkable then and it did not improve with age.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2007, 12:35:46 PM »
Type "heritage foundation" and "discredited" or "disingenuous".

How does paying 23% on every purchase compare to paying 10% or 15% on one's entire income?

your keeping  most of your income, plus  you get a rebate from the government offsetting  most if not all of the 23 % if you are lower income

Just b/c you say anything conclusive means nothing. wise advice for yourself lib

Are you foolish enough to think that there will be no enforcement/collection infrastructure with the demise of the IRS and implementation of the Fair Tax?

the sales tax is already in place, the system is already in.

Oh that's right, proponents of the fair tax say there won't be a problem.

And you believe them.

Offshore accounts are irrelevant to a new Black Market for untaxed products.

this is about the biggest pile garbage ever written on GetBig,

Why don't you inform us of the numbers that support your Fair Tax?

as written above, I dont support Huckabee, or the Fair tax, I support Ron Paul and him doing away with the IRS altogether
 but  if the only 2 choices were our current system, and the Fair Tax, then I go with the Fair Tax,


Simply linking another page for support is what cowards do to avoid a discussion. 

where is your link, or your proof ? I see you have none, you just spout opinions with nothing to back it up, usuall lib bullshit

I showed you the idiocy of the Fair Tax by pointing out the insanely high cost of goods and that poor and lower middle class people already pay a much lower rate with deductions under the present progressive tax scheme.

you did nothing,  as your point was false, as I wrote, the low income would get a rebate. thus making them pay zero of the 23 % 

You've shown me nothing but foolish talk.

no, I have shown many details and the link to the Fair tax, all you have done is attack it with your bullshit opinions.

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2007, 12:45:31 PM »
You really have no understanding what you are talking about.

Who enforces the sales tax?

Why should drug dealers pay 23% for new products when they can buy black market items with zero tax?

example :when they go to buy a car,  or a rolex and etc... they will pay taxes, that they do not pay now, thus lowering our share.

Do you even think before you type?

do you ever think before you vote ?


How do you pay less when an income tax rate of 0% or 10% or 15% is substantially less than 23%?  Is it all those rebate checks?

yes,

We'll pay for those with good intentions.
you already pay taxes at the store, (good intentions or not ) 

How about social security which is funded with 12% payroll tax paid by all workers?

paid with  the 23 % collected

How does the FairTax affect Social Security reform?

The FairTax.org plan does not change Social Security benefits or the structure of the Social Security system. All it does is replace the current revenue source (narrow, regressive payroll taxes) with a new revenue source (broad, progressive sales taxes paid by all consumers).



That's right, we'll cover the cost of that with the 23% sales tax.  yes

How about the hundreds of billions for the military--don't worry, Ozark has a plan!

paid for with the 23 %

A 23% sales tax.

I'd go on but this crap has been peddled before.  It was unworkable then and it did not improve with age.

or  just vote for Hillary, and get a middle class tax increase, just like her hubby did to the middle class in 92/93



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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 08:13:06 AM »
Ozark, Currently there is no federal sales tax.  The matter is handled by the states.  Some states do not have sales tax.  A separate enforcement/compliancy agency on the federal level would have to be established.   Something like an IRS. 

“Scrapping the Code and IRS” is code language for 2 things: 1. I don’t understand the legal basis for taxation in the US and 2. I want a huge tax cut for the wealthy with a huge tax increase for everyone else so that the federal government is starved of funding.

I like your certainty that the numbers for the "Fair Tax" add up.  I'm certain you were also a proponent of privatizing Social Security and were equally enthralled by your own convictions.

I like the way you call me “lib”.  Now just replace the word “lib” with “jew” and you’ll see tactical template the Nazis used for belittling others.  I can explain to you why, if you wish.

When did Clinton raise taxes on the middle class?

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 01:24:01 PM »
Ozark, Currently there is no federal sales tax.  The matter is handled by the states.  Some states do not have sales tax.  A separate enforcement/compliancy agency on the federal level would have to be established.   Something like an IRS.


for the 3rd time, I don't support Huckabee, as he is a liberal  at heart,  or the fair tax, I perfer to get rid of the IRS and replace it with nothing, as Ron Paul wants to do.  but given the current Tax system, and the fair tax, I would take the fair tax.  
             
this is my first choice :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkPUeFtLrPM


scrapping the Code and IRS” is code language for 2 things: 1. I don’t understand the legal basis for taxation in the US and 2. I want a huge tax cut for the wealthy with a huge tax increase for everyone else so that the federal government is starved of funding.wrong again,

lib, as pointed out earlier, the lower income class would pay still pay next to nothing or zero in taxes. You just jeep spouting your same bullshit over and over. But people who curently pay nothing like drug dealers, and the mafia, would be brought into the system, thus lowering our share.

I like your certainty that the numbers for the "Fair Tax" add up.  I'm certain you were also a proponent of privatizing Social Security and were equally enthralled by your own convictions.

wrong again lib, i was never for that, as i knew that once a downturn came in the market, it would be hell to pay, with everyone blaming the government for their decrease in funds. I am against many things that Bush has done, ( or tried to do )this being just one of them.
I think his stance for not enforcing our borders is sad, and he should  always be looked back on as a failure as President for this alone.


I like the way you call me Lib.  Now just replace the word Lib with Jew and you'll see tactical template the Nazis used for belittling others.  I can explain to you why, if you wish.

now this is funny ! !  considering you are a liberal,  and yet you have a problem with me calling you this !
oh by the way, I am Jewish, so you fail in this statement all the way, Nice try though  ::)


When did Clinton raise taxes on the middle class?

TAXES

Flip
    "I want to make it very clear that this middle class tax cut, in my view, is central to any attempt we're going to make to have a short-term economic strategy and a longterm fairness strategy which is part of getting this country going again."
    --Bill Clinton, New Hampshire primary debate, 1/19/92
Flop
    "[My opponents] always made more of the middle-class tax cut that I did in my speeches."
    --Bill Clinton (The Associated Press, 6/19/92)
Flip
    "...I will tell you this: I will not raise taxes on the middle-class to pay for these programs."
    --Bill Clinton, East Lansing, Mich., debate, 10/19/92
Flop
    Bill Clinton raised taxes on the middle class as soon as he got in office: "To middle-class Americans who have paid a great deal over the last 12 years and from whom I ask a contribution tonight..."
    --Bill Clinton, State of the Union Address, 2/17/93
    Clinton referred to passage of his tax increase -- the largest tax increase in American history -- as "a great moment for me." ("CNN News," 4/13/95).
Flip
    Clinton later admitted his tax increase had been a mistake: "Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at that budget because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them to much, too"
    --Bill Clinton, Presidential Gala Dinner Houston, Texas 10/17/95
Flop
    But two days later said: "I take full responsibility, proudly, for what we did. It [raising taxes] was the right thing to do."
    --Bill Clinton, press conference, 10/19/95

    Bill Clinton still thinks raising taxes is a good idea.

    On January 6, 1996, he presented a budget that contained $60 billion in new taxes (The Washington Post, 1/9/96).






Colossus_500

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 01:28:26 PM »
I like the fact that this option gives the average citizen more control over their money.   I think the 23% scares people because when you think of percentages and money, those kind of numbers scare you unless it's in terms of dividends.

240 is Back

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 01:34:05 PM »
I like the fact that this option gives the average citizen more control over their money.   I think the 23% scares people because when you think of percentages and money, those kind of numbers scare you unless it's in terms of dividends.

colossus,

there are a lot of americans without the brains to control their own money, would you agree?

Decker

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 02:04:41 PM »
Ozark, Currently there is no federal sales tax.  The matter is handled by the states.  Some states do not have sales tax.  A separate enforcement/compliancy agency on the federal level would have to be established.   Something like an IRS.


for the 3rd time, I don't support Huckabee, as he is a liberal  at heart,  or the fair tax, I perfer to get rid of the IRS and replace it with nothing, as Ron Paul wants to do.  but given the current Tax system, and the fair tax, I would take the fair tax.  
             
this is my first choice :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkPUeFtLrPM


scrapping the Code and IRS” is code language for 2 things: 1. I don’t understand the legal basis for taxation in the US and 2. I want a huge tax cut for the wealthy with a huge tax increase for everyone else so that the federal government is starved of funding.wrong again,

lib, as pointed out earlier, the lower income class would pay still pay next to nothing or zero in taxes. You just jeep spouting your same bullshit over and over. But people who curently pay nothing like drug dealers, and the mafia, would be brought into the system, thus lowering our share.

I like your certainty that the numbers for the "Fair Tax" add up.  I'm certain you were also a proponent of privatizing Social Security and were equally enthralled by your own convictions.

wrong again lib, i was never for that, as i knew that once a downturn came in the market, it would be hell to pay, with everyone blaming the government for their decrease in funds. I am against many things that Bush has done, ( or tried to do )this being just one of them.
I think his stance for not enforcing our borders is sad, and he should  always be looked back on as a failure as President for this alone.


I like the way you call me Lib.  Now just replace the word Lib with Jew and you'll see tactical template the Nazis used for belittling others.  I can explain to you why, if you wish.

now this is funny ! !  considering you are a liberal,  and yet you have a problem with me calling you this !
oh by the way, I am Jewish, so you fail in this statement all the way, Nice try though  ::)


When did Clinton raise taxes on the middle class?

TAXES

Flip
    "I want to make it very clear that this middle class tax cut, in my view, is central to any attempt we're going to make to have a short-term economic strategy and a longterm fairness strategy which is part of getting this country going again."
    --Bill Clinton, New Hampshire primary debate, 1/19/92
Flop
    "[My opponents] always made more of the middle-class tax cut that I did in my speeches."
    --Bill Clinton (The Associated Press, 6/19/92)
Flip
    "...I will tell you this: I will not raise taxes on the middle-class to pay for these programs."
    --Bill Clinton, East Lansing, Mich., debate, 10/19/92
Flop
    Bill Clinton raised taxes on the middle class as soon as he got in office: "To middle-class Americans who have paid a great deal over the last 12 years and from whom I ask a contribution tonight..."
    --Bill Clinton, State of the Union Address, 2/17/93
    Clinton referred to passage of his tax increase -- the largest tax increase in American history -- as "a great moment for me." ("CNN News," 4/13/95).
Flip
    Clinton later admitted his tax increase had been a mistake: "Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at that budget because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them to much, too"
    --Bill Clinton, Presidential Gala Dinner Houston, Texas 10/17/95
Flop
    But two days later said: "I take full responsibility, proudly, for what we did. It [raising taxes] was the right thing to do."
    --Bill Clinton, press conference, 10/19/95

    Bill Clinton still thinks raising taxes is a good idea.

    On January 6, 1996, he presented a budget that contained $60 billion in new taxes (The Washington Post, 1/9/96).






This thread is about Huckabee’s Fair tax, but if you want to change the topic that’s fine with me.  You don’t understand the point being made here.  Sales tax is the province of the States.  If Ron Paul wants to implement a national sales tax of 23% and scrap the IRS, there has to be some federal enforcement apparatus to oversee the enforcement of the new federal sales tax.  The States have enough to do collecting their own sales tax. 

Wishing the IRS into oblivion does not erase the need for a federal tax enforcement entity. 

I can't watch youtube on my computer.  Once again you fail to make a cogent argument.  You just link to outside sources as if your point is now self-evident.

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Why would the wealthy or criminal elemenst be “brought into the system”?  You still don’t explain that statement of yours.  The wealthy can buy foreign goods to avoid the tax.  The drug dealers are already criminals and would just deal in untaxed black market goods.

You miss a fundamental point at hand.  For many people, any tax is too much and every effort will be made to avoid it.  The current system is not perfect, but it is the best most fair one we have.

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So you are a fellow Jew.  How ironic.  You should know then that your attempt to belittle me by referring to me as a classification rather than a person is the same ham-handed technique the Nazis used to belittle Jews.  Let the public see what kind of a human being you really are.  You’re not a Nazi.  You just use their techniques.
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Show me the Clinton middle class tax increase legislation that was passed.  Or is that too much to ask from you?   

I could point out the increase on the tax on gasoline as a “tax on the middle class” but that is as oblique as any of your so called arguments.

Decker

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Re: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 02:06:46 PM »
And the largest tax increase in history was signed by Ronald Reagan and not Bill Clinton.