Author Topic: Christmas in afghanistan. (Read 13501 times)

Army of One · « **Reply #25 on:** December 25, 2007, 06:55:39 PM »

Quote from: noc on December 25, 2007, 06:53:22 PM

Obviously American civilian deaths are going to be mourned more than soldiers since the risk of dying goes hand in hand with the army and 'war' zones in general...still not sure what your point was

I agree but the fact that America chose to go to Iraq under zero threat factors in greatly too.

joelocal · « **Reply #26 on:** December 25, 2007, 06:59:07 PM »

Quote from: db2431 on December 25, 2007, 05:50:14 PM

No need for Blessing, its like a human crushing an ant, start blessing when USA gets in a real war akin to WW1/WW2 where both sides lose near equal amounts.

Part of the problem is, some people want to compare this war to other conventional war's.........it's not possible, these assholes don't play by any "rules" as in conventional war's, they don't care who they use (women and children) or who they kill (women and children).

noc · « **Reply #27 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:06:39 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 06:59:07 PM

it's not possible, these assholes don't play by any "rules" as in conventional war's,.

Like we keep detainees in guantanamo bay in conditions that break just about every protocol of the geneva conventions?

joelocal · « **Reply #28 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:11:49 PM »

Quote from: noc on December 25, 2007, 07:06:39 PM

Like we keep detainees in guantanamo bay in conditions that break just about every protocol of the geneva conventions?

They are not considered military, they are criminals and we don't need to conform to Geneva.

240 is Back · « **Reply #29 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:13:07 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 07:11:49 PM

They are not considered military, they are criminals and we don't need to conform to Geneva.

Joe,

If we invade Iran, should we be allowed to torture their army members when we capture them?

joelocal · « **Reply #30 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:14:22 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on December 25, 2007, 07:13:07 PM

Joe,

If we invade Iran, should we be allowed to torture their army members when we capture them?

Define torture.

240 is Back · « **Reply #31 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:16:03 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 07:14:22 PM

Define torture.

LOL!!

Your answer should have been an automatic "HELL NO, We cannot torture them because they're part of a national army".

Moosejay · « **Reply #32 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:16:57 PM »

Quote from: db2431 on December 25, 2007, 06:46:52 PM

Ok then, 2,740 died in 911 when USA was attacked by mainly Saudi Extremists, 4000 soldiers died in Iraq, one of the events generated 1000 times more sympathy than the other, Ill let you work out the rest.

Thanks DB...I am currently too ill to work out the rest, thanks for your response anyhow.

Mike

noc · « **Reply #33 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:17:09 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 07:11:49 PM

They are not considered military, they are criminals and we don't need to conform to Geneva.

Of course they ain't

Army of One · « **Reply #34 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:18:39 PM »

Quote from: Moosejay on December 25, 2007, 07:16:57 PM

Thanks DB...I am currently too ill to work out the rest, thanks for your response anyhow.

Mike

Ask your doctor for other Meds to raise your Tcell count.

noc · « **Reply #35 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:18:46 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on December 25, 2007, 07:16:03 PM

LOL!!

Your answer should have been an automatic "HELL NO, We cannot torture them because they're part of a national army".

Maybe they will be 'considered' as criminals instead

240 is Back · « **Reply #36 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:20:29 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 07:11:49 PM

They are not considered military, they are criminals and we don't need to conform to Geneva.

Should we be allowed to torture criminals (bad guys we pick up off the streets) in every nation in which we are present? Korea? Germany? We have bases all over the world. Can we now torture anyone we pick up off the streets because "They are not considered military"?

Joe, we prosecuted soldiers who torture in WWII. Yes, the japanese had suicide bombers and did all sorts of things that violated geneva - but we - the mighty USA - were alwasy above it. yes, our enemies played dirty and hid amongst citizens and did all the dirty shit we see today. But we were ABOVE IT.

I feel you've let your standards slide. I love my country and want her to be the ROLE MODEL for all that is right in the world. I don't want to play fucking word games, and try to condone torture in as many instances as possible. That's shady at best.

Moosejay · « **Reply #37 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:21:55 PM »

Quote from: db2431 on December 25, 2007, 06:55:39 PM

I agree but the fact that America chose to go to Iraq under zero threat factors in greatly too.

Again, friends.

We "SEE" no threat. We everyday people are not permitted to see what really goes on.

Its my OPINION that we are well protected by our well-meaning government.

Mike

Moosejay · « **Reply #38 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:22:44 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 06:59:07 PM

Part of the problem is, some people want to compare this war to other conventional war's.........it's not possible, these assholes don't play by any "rules" as in conventional war's, they don't care who they use (women and children) or who they kill (women and children).

JoeLocal...you have NEVER been more correct.

Mike

joelocal · « **Reply #39 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:23:32 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on December 25, 2007, 07:20:29 PM

Should we be allowed to torture criminals (bad guys we pick up off the streets) in every nation in which we are present? Korea? Germany? We have bases all over the world. Can we now torture anyone we pick up off the streets because "They are not considered military"?

Joe, we prosecuted soldiers who torture in WWII. Yes, the japanese had suicide bombers and did all sorts of things that violated geneva - but we - the mighty USA - were alwasy above it. yes, our enemies played dirty and hid amongst citizens and did all the dirty shit we see today. But we were ABOVE IT.

I feel you've let your standards slide. I love my country and want her to be the ROLE MODEL for all that is right in the world. I don't want to play fucking word games, and try to condone torture in as many instances as possible. That's shady at best.

Again....define "torture".

noc · « **Reply #40 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:23:41 PM »

Mike are you going to reply to my post on the bottom of the first page?

Moosejay · « **Reply #41 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:24:42 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 07:11:49 PM

They are not considered military, they are criminals and we don't need to conform to Geneva.

Correct.

Mike

240 is Back · « **Reply #42 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:25:48 PM »

I understand that we need to do things to keep bases in touchy areas to keep our enemies honest (and we built em!). and I understand that we need to control that oil flow (which we now do) and keep it in dollars (which we have done!)

So I understand for the longterm strength of the USA, we need to war every now and then if we want to remain #1. It's how the world works, like it or not.

I just don't like dishonesty. I don't like people playing word games, insulting my intelligence, etc. When you hear folks say "it's about helping them, not oil" or "we're doing it to help them"... it's fucking ignorance.

Moosejay · « **Reply #43 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:27:10 PM »

Quote from: db2431 on December 25, 2007, 07:18:39 PM

Ask your doctor for other Meds to raise your Tcell count.

Believe me, bro, I am on everything. They are too kind .

Mike

240 is Back · « **Reply #44 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:27:53 PM »

Quote from: joelocal on December 25, 2007, 07:23:32 PM

Again....define "torture".

torture by geneva definition. you have wiki. look it up. we're not going to play word games about "well... I'm not suuuuuuuure waterboarding is actually torture".

Cause that's ignorant. Take 5 min of it and tell the class if it's torture. Of course it is.

I'm all for killing every enemy SOB and doing it fast. But Joe, you're a christian man. Would you really sit and waterboard a 70-pound woman for 45 minutes if Jesus Christ was sitting in the room with you?

Moosejay · « **Reply #45 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:29:03 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on December 25, 2007, 07:20:29 PM

Should we be allowed to torture criminals (bad guys we pick up off the streets) in every nation in which we are present? Korea? Germany? We have bases all over the world. Can we now torture anyone we pick up off the streets because "They are not considered military"?

Joe, we prosecuted soldiers who torture in WWII. Yes, the japanese had suicide bombers and did all sorts of things that violated geneva - but we - the mighty USA - were alwasy above it. yes, our enemies played dirty and hid amongst citizens and did all the dirty shit we see today. But we were ABOVE IT.

I feel you've let your standards slide. I love my country and want her to be the ROLE MODEL for all that is right in the world. I don't want to play fucking word games, and try to condone torture in as many instances as possible. That's shady at best.

I am with you 240.

We are still the hallmark for all other nations.

BNut it is a far different world. The circumstances are much more monolithic.

Mike

noc · « **Reply #46 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:29:32 PM »

Maybe 'he' will claim they died for your sins

Jesus had a great time being staked to a cross, he was a criminal though

noc · « **Reply #47 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:31:15 PM »

Quote from: noc on December 25, 2007, 07:23:41 PM

Mike are you going to reply to my post on the bottom of the first page?

Guess not

the truth will set you free

240 is Back · « **Reply #48 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:31:22 PM »

Quote from: Moosejay on December 25, 2007, 07:29:03 PM

I am with you 240.
We are still the hallmark for all other nations.
BNut it is a far different world. The circumstances are much more monolithic.
Mike

If that is the case, okay. But I dont' see the difference between a japanese kid willing to pack his nose with TNT and fly his plane into a nurses' station in 1941, with a guy who will wear a bomb into a checkpoint today.

They're both insane assholes who should be eliminated. Fo sho.

But why was it (agreed by all) a crime in 1941 to torture them, and A-OK in 2007?

Moosejay · « **Reply #49 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:35:25 PM »

Quote from: noc on December 25, 2007, 07:23:41 PM

Mike are you going to reply to my post on the bottom of the first page?

Just did NOC

Mike