Author Topic: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?  (Read 6844 times)

boonstack

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where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« on: December 26, 2007, 06:31:40 AM »
was it "just there"? ::)

wes

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2007, 06:33:38 AM »
The "Wizard of Waddy" can tell ya` !!  :)

SteelePegasus

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2007, 06:37:16 AM »
It is probably Creatine based...I hear that it gives a good pump
Here comes the money shot

Meso_z

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2007, 06:42:08 AM »
was it "just there"? ::)

All thes etheories about "big bang" my ass are bullshit.

It amazes me how some so called "genius" or "scientists" know what was going billions of years before they were born.  ::)

Stu

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2007, 07:01:31 AM »
All thes etheories about "big bang" my ass are bullshit.

It amazes me how some so called "genius" or "scientists" know what was going billions of years before they were born.  ::)

what do you think happened bro?

KillerMonk

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2007, 07:06:55 AM »
God Farted
Arnold For President 2012.2016

Meso_z

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2007, 07:08:52 AM »
what do you think happened bro?

If you believe in God, the one and only, its pretty obvious.......

dr.chimps

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2007, 07:09:38 AM »
All thes etheories about "big bang" my ass are bullshit.

It amazes me how some so called "genius" or "scientists" know what was going billions of years before they were born.  ::)
LOL. Your troll-fu is strong in this thread.

Lord Humungous

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X

the Pure Majestic

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2007, 09:44:55 AM »
All thes etheories about "big bang" my ass are bullshit.

It amazes me how some so called "genius" or "scientists" know what was going billions of years before they were born.  ::)

Regarding evolution and creationism, the linkage is simple: since Biblical accounts of the genesis of our world and species are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also given to us by God.

This God is probably a fair bit different than the God you believe you're following. 

The beauty of Math is that you don't have to "see" or necessarily "understand" the facts that Math proposes. 
2+2 is 4 whether you can see "4," and whether or not "4" was there billions of years ago. 
We can trace the origins of the universe back through time until, essentially, the moment of the Big Bang.  At that point, portions of the math falls apart.  M-theory, a derivitive of String theory, helps explain some of this.

the Pure Majestic

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2007, 09:47:30 AM »
was it "just there"? ::)

By definition, there is nothing outside of reality that is real enough to contain reality. So reality is self-contained. A self-contained medium must provide that which is necessary to its own existence. So if energy is necessary for the existence of reality, reality must find that energy within itself. Because matter consists of energy according to Einstein’s famous equation e=mc2, this applies to matter as well.  That is, the universe, using its own energy, made its own matter. 
How could it do this?  By configuring itself in such a way that the matter it made would be “recognized” as such by other matter. 

Difficult to comprehend, but this is a possible explanation.

Necrosis

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2007, 10:09:01 AM »
All thes etheories about "big bang" my ass are bullshit.

It amazes me how some so called "genius" or "scientists" know what was going billions of years before they were born.  ::)


your ignorance shocks me.  energy is neither created nor destroyed, this is a fact. hence matter has always existed, and more likely in the form of energy which can be converted to matter. no god needed. in fact your answer makes it way more complicated.

Archer77

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 10:23:49 AM »
All thes etheories about "big bang" my ass are bullshit.

It amazes me how some so called "genius" or "scientists" know what was going billions of years before they were born.  ::)

just as silly as believing in a book written many years before you where born.
A

Meso_z

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2007, 10:49:16 AM »
I still call bullshit.

stormshadow

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2007, 11:11:46 AM »
By definition, there is nothing outside of reality that is real enough to contain reality. So reality is self-contained. A self-contained medium must provide that which is necessary to its own existence. So if energy is necessary for the existence of reality, reality must find that energy within itself. Because matter consists of energy according to Einstein’s famous equation e=mc2, this applies to matter as well.  That is, the universe, using its own energy, made its own matter. 
How could it do this?  By configuring itself in such a way that the matter it made would be “recognized” as such by other matter. 

Difficult to comprehend, but this is a possible explanation.

Have you looked at experiments done with subatomic particles?

What they have found is that a subatomic particle can behave as either a wave or a particle DEPENDING ON THE OBSERVER.

The more we learn, the more the evidence reveals that our existence is just a state of conscience.

Army of One

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2007, 11:17:21 AM »
Have you looked at experiments done with subatomic particles?

What they have found is that a subatomic particle can behave as either a wave or a particle DEPENDING ON THE OBSERVER.

The more we learn, the more the evidence reveals that our existence is just a state of conscience.

Hmm this is interesting, any links?Maybe things like "The Secret" arnt such Bullshit after all, either that or we really are living in the Matrix.

bigguns23

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 11:23:30 AM »
Have you looked at experiments done with subatomic particles?

What they have found is that a subatomic particle can behave as either a wave or a particle DEPENDING ON THE OBSERVER.

The more we learn, the more the evidence reveals that our existence is just a state of conscience.

Great great post bro. It's amazing what they are doing with these particles in particle colliders. They can actually collide these particles at the speed of light. Awsome. People really need to realize that are planet is the equivelent of a grain of sand in the vast universe. For petes' sake, the milky way is just one of billions of estimated galaxies out there. Kind of freaky!

Don Miracle

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 11:24:21 AM »
a subatomic particle can behave as either a wave or a particle DEPENDING ON THE OBSERVER.

The latest in quantum physics.

Army of One

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 11:29:58 AM »
Here is more on the state depending on observation, great stuff

"

Why Am I Me?
Some thoughts on the origin and nature of consciousness
An essay in hypertext by Scott Bidstrup


Why am I me?

This is a question that almost everyone has asked as a child, but with all our modern technology and scientific insight, no one knows.

Science says the question is beyond its ability to answer, so it refuses to speculate.

Religion has attempted to answer it, but with conflicting, often demonstrably false theories, lacking in any credible evidence. But the question persists.

It is a haunting, nagging question, often asked early in childhood and occasionally throughout life, and asking for an answer that is never there, yet a question that is an important one, as it touches on the very nature of human consciousness.

For me personally, it was a challenge. I could not find an answer to that question, at least one that satisfied my desire for an answer to that question. So I kept turning in the only direction I could for an answer - to religion.

I once entered into an email dialog with a fellow who accused me of being a closet religionist, as I believed at the time in the genuineness of my reincarnation regression experiences. He felt, and I secretly have to agree, that I had to invoke religious explanations to come up with the explanations that I was seeking. Nothing else seemed to offer the answer I was looking for.

Well, I've since learned a lot about myself, about the hypnotic experiences that I had, and about the nature of the universe and of human consciousness itself. In particular, the insights of modern theoretical physics, and some of the explanations of the nature of the universe have had some bearing on my thinking. And so this essay is a distillation of the experiences and insights I've had.

In a strictly material sense, it may be true that the matter that makes up me could have made up a tree, or a lizard or a rock or anything else. But what we're talking about here is consciousness; in particular, the consciousness which is unique to me, and not shared by anyone else. The matter that makes up my body has little relevance to the fact of my consciousness. It doesn't do one bit about explaining why I am me in terms of my consciousness. It just explains the fact of the carrier of my consciousness, my physical body. The body should not be confused with the consciousness. It's like confusing a program running on a computer with the computer itself.

The personal distinction, which I experience as a personal consciousness, is quite independent of the matter that makes up my physical body, as when, for example, if a chunk of me is removed in surgery, I do not continue to experience what is happening to the removed chunk; it simply becomes a part of the world I experience and is no longer "me."

If that chunk includes living cells that are cloned into another complete, living, breathing, human being, that human being still isn't me, even though it had its beginnings in my body. It isn't me because it does not have my consciousness, as similar to mine though it may be/ It should be self evident that even if the chunk of me that is removed and 'grown' into another human body is a part of my brain, complete with my 'software' still running in it, it still isn't me because I don't experience what it (the new body) is experiencing. For it to be me, I would have to be conscious of and experiencing two lives at the same time, and I find that to be rather unlikely.

The question posed to science, then, is how does science explain the uniqueness of my personal experience of consciousness? Until very recently, there was no possible answer. But now there is, based on the insights of theoretical physics. My answer is a bit involved, but bear with me:

Modern physics implies "action at a distance," a result of the process of observation. For example, electrons and other subatomic particles exhibit the properties of both waves and particles, but not at the same time, because many of the wave properties are incompatible with the particle properties. So experiments can be devised which force a particle to behave as either a particle or a wave, depending on the expectations of the observer. It can even be shown that it behaves as both, until it is observed, at which time it takes on one set of properties or the other, and does so instantly. Schrodinger's "cat" is both "alive and dead" until you look in the box, at which time it becomes one or the other.

The act of observation of Schrodinger's cat is not a function of matter, it is a function of consciousness. This is a fact that is a demonstrable reality of science, and implies an inherent interconnectedness between the experimenter and the experiment. Einstein didn't like the idea (and fought tirelessly against it, in fact). He needn't have bothered. There's a purely rational explanation.

Another example: if a pair of subatomic particles are created in a particle collision, and one of that pair has a 'top' spin, the other must have a 'bottom' spin, since spin is a conserved quantum, and it can be mathematically demonstrated that all the spin of all the particles in the universe must add up to zero. It has been demonstrated that if you reverse the spin of one of the pair, the other 'knows' that it must reverse it's spin for the total spin to continue to add to zero -- and it's spin will indeed reverse. But how does it 'know'?

What science has recently concluded is that there is an infinite number of universes. Probabalistic events, such as Schrodinger's cat, mean that not just one, but two universes exist, one in which the cat is alive, and the other in which the cat is dead. The act of observing simply picks one of the universes. Every time a probabalistic event occurs, such as a coin toss, the universe splits in two, and there is then a heads universe and a tails universe. We proceed down, say, through the heads universe, and the tails universe becomes unknowable to us. We are unaware of its existence, but it exists nevertheless. All outcomes of all probabalistic events have led to independent universes.

But it gets even more complex than that.

The universes are not as we see a universe, but really are an infinite collection of frozen, eternal instances. These "multiverses" as the instances are called, are not at all as we experience the universe. It's like time is frozen and the contents of the multiverse are unchanging, like in a bad science fiction movie where time stands still. Each multiverse is a sort of "snapshot" as it were.

We experience time because each of these multiverses has a point of congruence with other multiverses. We progress from the experience of one multiverse to another in rapid succession, and the result is what we experience as the illusion of time, and a single thread of multiverse congruences is what we call our consciousness.

The Uniqueness of Individual Consciousness
I do not know your mind and you do not know mine because for some unknown reason, these threads of congruence cannot overlap. Each is unique.

Why am I me, then? It is simply because I am the only thread of congruences that is progressing through the multiverses that I am progressing through. It is really that simple. I am alone in that the thread of congruences I am experiencing is unique to me, and all the rest of you out there are all an illusion. As I am an illusion to you, since you are alone in the thread of congruences you are experiencing as consciousness.

My consciousness is born when points of congruence emerge, and my consciousness ends when the points of congruence no longer continue.

Why Haven't I heard more about this theory?
This theory is brand new, and hasn't been rigorously tested yet. It is proposed by Julian Barbour, a physicist and mathematician living in South Newington, Oxford, England. It is but one consequence of a grand theory of his, intended to unify and explain many of the heretofore irreconcilable theories of the universe with which physicists are working.

Physicists are tremendously excited about the theory, because as radical as it is, it offers the best hope yet at unifying quantum mechanics with Newtonian physics and relativity, as well as a means of unifying all the known forces of the universe into a single explanation.

This theory as to the nature of time and the experience of the universe is a radically new concept for physics. The only place where I know it has been discussed in an accessible manner is in the pages of the December, 2000 issue of Discover magazine (page 54)."

http://www.bidstrup.com/why.htm

Necrosis

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 11:30:29 AM »
Hmm this is interesting, any links?Maybe things like "The Secret" arnt such Bullshit after all, either that or we really are living in the Matrix.

its the double slit experiment, observation dictates results, it converts probability into actuality.

Army of One

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 11:33:42 AM »
its the double slit experiment, observation dictates results, it converts probability into actuality.

So you can shape your future with your thoughts?An extreme example, but what I think the new theory is getting at,Negative thoughts will lead you to a shit life, positive to a life beyond your dreams?Or am I reading too much in to it?

powerpack

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 11:46:56 AM »
This is one of those questions with no answer and if you think about it to much you start going nutty.

Necrosis

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 11:50:38 AM »
So you can shape your future with your thoughts?An extreme example, but what I think the new theory is getting at,Negative thoughts will lead you to a shit life, positive to a life beyond your dreams?Or am I reading too much in to it?

no we cannot control what reality we see, its the same for everyone based on obvious accounts. what is interesting is that when not observed matter acts as waves and creates an interference pattern but obsevation collapses the wave function into a particle or "spot" aka reality. we cant choose what we see and we cant change reality, that is a huge leap in logic and has no evidence. another cool thing is that anything moving at the speed of light is timeless or doesnt age, it also is everywhere and at no points(god maybe? :D). and the universe is mostly empty which is strange.

Camel Jockey

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 11:51:34 AM »
The explanation of some higher power doing it isn't a good counter therory.

There maybe minor gaps in science, but those are being closed everyday as we speak. And there are bound to be gaps as our undestanding has enhanced so much within the last 50 years or so. It's always sort of fitted, as some of the thories have been proven to be fact. For example, Darwin's theory is not a theory anymore, as it's not only backed up by the fossil record, but also by general common sense. Characteristics and chance cause certain animals to reproduce, and within generations, changes take place. I have no idea how can someone even call this a 'theory' anymore. As for some other things within the universe, give it time.

mezo_z, your bearded man in the sky is a much bigger pile of shit than anything science can't explain. You should cease using technology if your put your faith in bullshit fairy tales from the Middle East. And if you just believe in the a god because you can't find an explanation, then you yourself are just inventing something.

The Master

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Re: where did the original "matter" that caused big bang come from?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 11:54:01 AM »
The explanation of some higher power doing it isn't a good counter therory.

There maybe minor gaps in science, but those are being closed everyday as we speak. And there are bound to be gaps as our undestanding has enhanced so much within the last 50 years or so. It's always sort of fitted, as some of the thories have been proven to be fact. For example, Darwin's theory is not a theory anymore, as it's not only backed up by the fossil record, but also by general common sense. Characteristics and chance cause certain animals to reproduce, and within generations, changes take place. I have no idea how can someone even call this a 'theory' anymore. As for some other things within the universe, give it time.

mezo_z, you're bearded man in the sky is a much bigger pile of shit than anything science can't explain. You should cease using technology if your put your faith in bullshit fairy tales from the Middle East. And if you just believe in the a god because you can't find an explanation, then you yourself are just inventing something.

Great post.

Religion that is not Gary Busey based = fake religion.