Author Topic: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?  (Read 6270 times)

NEOFARQ

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Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« on: December 28, 2007, 04:52:22 PM »
I've got a comp coming up in may and I'm just begining a pretty solid 8 week bulker, D-bol, Deca, Test E and start my HGH at week 6. I was gonna run 100 mg. of Tren for the 10 weeks leading up to my show, too much or to little? I've heard that it is in and out of your system extremely fast and sometimes within minutes of injection you can get a coughing attack? Any truth and what about the dosage?

Arnold jr

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 06:09:51 PM »
Yes, tren cough is real...it's no big deal and nothing to worry about though...it only last a min or so. Also, it doesn't happen with every inject...but it will occasionally.

100mg/ed is as much as I'd personally do...I've done well with 75-100mg/eod.

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 08:18:24 PM »
AJ is correct, tren cough is very real.  Keep some halls around they help and don't freak, it will subside in a minute or two.  As for dose, 75mg/ed is plenty IMO.  I have gotten great results from that dosage and 500mg of test e a/wk.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 08:50:26 PM »
Blahh, blahh "Tren cough"?  Man i think you guys are just coincidently pinning tren when this has happened to you.  Its an urban legend i wish would die.  I have had this happen to me also and never while pinning tren.  Test and deca were what got me.  So we should change the name to deca, tren, test cough.  :D 

Some of the times it has happened to me it has been mild, like a cough I could almost control, but small coughs with an urge to cough.  A couple it was hard coughing.

This article explains what is happening to you guys.

http://www.anabolicresource.nl/forum/74186-post1.html

Arnold jr

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2007, 10:29:47 PM »
Blahh, blahh "Tren cough"?  Man i think you guys are just coincidently pinning tren when this has happened to you.  Its an urban legend i wish would die.  I have had this happen to me also and never while pinning tren.  Test and deca were what got me.  So we should change the name to deca, tren, test cough.  :D 

Some of the times it has happened to me it has been mild, like a cough I could almost control, but small coughs with an urge to cough.  A couple it was hard coughing.

This article explains what is happening to you guys.

http://www.anabolicresource.nl/forum/74186-post1.html
Yes, you're right...it can happen when injecting anything. I guess that would make the name of the cough rather stupid, lol!

Something weird, the few times I've had it happen, it's always been when injecting into my right delt...absolutely no idea why there and no where else.

trab

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 07:41:58 AM »
Ive had post injection cough once to. I forget waht from, but it weren't tren.

local hero

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 11:51:16 PM »
trens a great drug, but u do cough your lungs up , like having air freshener in the back of your throat..  if u can afford it run the hgh much longer than 6 weeks out.. soon as i start to diet im straight on the stuff

RDW

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2007, 06:28:53 AM »
Blahh, blahh "Tren cough"?  Man i think you guys are just coincidently pinning tren when this has happened to you.  Its an urban legend i wish would die.  I have had this happen to me also and never while pinning tren.  Test and deca were what got me.  So we should change the name to deca, tren, test cough.  :D 

Some of the times it has happened to me it has been mild, like a cough I could almost control, but small coughs with an urge to cough.  A couple it was hard coughing.

This article explains what is happening to you guys.

http://www.anabolicresource.nl/forum/74186-post1.html

As luv mentioned and his article describes, it's from pulmonary oil microembolism.  It can be substantially reduced by injecting less frequently but more so, injecting slower.  Many people don't realize that even though they aspirate, they end up injecting partially into blood vessels because they go through them, or rupture them post asperation.  Also, large depots alone make their way into the blood stream and drugs like Tren ace that are injecting ED or EOD obviously have a higher affinity for the side effect as there is more oil.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 06:48:41 AM »
Blahh, blahh "Tren cough"?  Man i think you guys are just coincidently pinning tren when this has happened to you.  Its an urban legend i wish would die.  I have had this happen to me also and never while pinning tren.  Test and deca were what got me.  So we should change the name to deca, tren, test cough.  :D 


Were the Test and Deca UG products? I've never heard of this happening with HG gear. Not saying it doesn't happen, just noting that it's much much more prevalent with UG. A decade or so ago, when most of my buddies were using legit HG gear I had NEVER heard of this. Thousands of amps injected in total among my circle of friends and not a single case I'd heard of.



As luv mentioned and his article describes, it's from pulmonary oil microembolism.  It can be substantially reduced by injecting less frequently but more so, injecting slower.  Many people don't realize that even though they aspirate, they end up injecting partially into blood vessels because they go through them, or rupture them post asperation.  Also, large depots alone make their way into the blood stream and drugs like Tren ace that are injecting ED or EOD obviously have a higher affinity for the side effect as there is more oil.
I don't know if I totally buy this necessarily being pulmonary embolism, due to it mostly happening with UG gear like I mentioned. There hasn't been a consensus on the cause among "experts"

Anyone notice it happening more frequently on some injection sites? From what I've seen glute injects cause it more often compared to delt injections in some.

trab

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 06:49:32 AM »
As luv mentioned and his article describes, it's from pulmonary oil microembolism.  It can be substantially reduced by injecting less frequently but more so, injecting slower.  Many people don't realize that even though they aspirate, they end up injecting partially into blood vessels because they go through them, or rupture them post asperation.  Also, large depots alone make their way into the blood stream and drugs like Tren ace that are injecting ED or EOD obviously have a higher affinity for the side effect as there is more oil.

Well, my substantial crew of Drs sure didn't go to school with you  ::)
A bigger bunch of morons would be hard to gather up. Frankly, they are criminally incompetent often IMO.

Got any advice for dealing with your Medical brethren re AAS?  Ive gone to "Only as absolutely necessary" with any mention of the stuff because it just starts a big unbelievably ignorant fight with them.
 Unless Im havin surgery or a major problem that could have a AAS complication I dont say a word anymore.

trab

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 06:52:14 AM »
Were the Test and Deca UG products. I've never heard of this happening with HG gear. Not saying it doesn't happen, just noting that it's much much more prevalent with UG.I don't know if I totally buy this being pulmonary embolism, due to it mostly happening with UG gear like I mentioned. There hasn't been a consensus on the cause among "experts"

Anyone notice it happening more frequently on some injection sites? From what I've seen glute injects cause it more often compared to delt injections in some.

Ive had this w/ HG gear. But once only. (Ive never used UG)
I also inject S.L.O.W.L.Y.......... I waht to smack the nurses when they inject my daughter.... But WTF do I know?

RDW

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 07:10:25 AM »
Quote
Well, my substantial crew of Drs sure didn't go to school with you 
A bigger bunch of morons would be hard to gather up. Frankly, they are criminally incompetent often IMO.

Got any advice for dealing with your Medical brethren re AAS?  Ive gone to "Only as absolutely necessary" with any mention of the stuff because it just starts a big unbelievably ignorant fight with them.
 Unless Im havin surgery or a major problem that could have a AAS complication I dont say a word anymore.

Ask them to actually do research and read studies.  I have found that unless others realize for themselves, you will not be able to convince them it can be safe, friends and colleagues still give me grief and frankly they are just ignorant and I let them know it.  If you come at me without true knowledge and want to argue - you are going to end up looking stupid.  Most doctors (save for endocrinologists) don't know anything about them other than what they hear in the media, even the endos often only know what they read in textbooks rather than studies.  I had taken gear before I was ever in medical school so I did a lot of my labs and research on related topics which allowed me to accumulate more knowledge than I would have normally.  Bottom line, try to learn and truely understand things for yourself, not just about AAS but everything.  Don't allow yourself to be spoonfed rhetoric that has no foundation.  Think.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 07:10:35 AM »
I waht to smack the nurses when they inject my daughter.... But WTF do I know?
They are in such a rush all the time I guess  :-\

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 07:20:44 AM »
Were the Test and Deca UG products? I've never heard of this happening with HG gear. Not saying it doesn't happen, just noting that it's much much more prevalent with UG. A decade or so ago, when most of my buddies were using legit HG gear I had NEVER heard of this. Thousands of amps injected in total among my circle of friends and not a single case I'd heard of.

I don't know if I totally buy this necessarily being pulmonary embolism, due to it mostly happening with UG gear like I mentioned. There hasn't been a consensus on the cause among "experts"

Anyone notice it happening more frequently on some injection sites? From what I've seen glute injects cause it more often compared to delt injections in some.

It has nothing to do with the gear, but everything to do with the oil.  I'm not sure what kind of cycles you and your circle of friends run but this POME will occur more so on LONG cycles with large, frequent injections.  In this case the sites get overused and overwhelmed.  Also as RDW noted in the case where too much enters your blood stream from ruptured veins during or post injection.

I have heard a few "experts" explain this POME is what is happening.  I posted one experts article.

Here is another done by doctors where this was encountered and their explanation http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/10/4/862

What is your scientific explanation or theories of what is going on?

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 08:03:29 AM »
It has nothing to do with the gear, but everything to do with the oil.  I'm not sure what kind of cycles you and your circle of friends run but this POME will occur more so on LONG cycles with large, frequent injections.  In this case the sites get overused and overwhelmed.  Also as RDW noted in the case where too much enters your blood stream from ruptured veins during or post injection.

I have heard a few "experts" explain this POME is what is happening.  I posted one experts article.

Here is another done by doctors where this was encountered and their explanation http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/10/4/862

What is your scientific explanation or theories of what is going on?
The article you linked to earlier said the opposite, that it occurs LESS with frequent, long cycles.

I don't know why it happens. I have seen those medical reports before. It could still be due to POME but for some reason it occurs more frequently with UG gear, and especially with tren. Maybe it's the type of oil or the solvents that make it enter circulation quicker/easier? Do you agree that it's more common with UG steroids, especially with tren? I know a ton of guys who only had this happen with tren and/or a few different UG products. One guy had been cycling for years without ever experiencing this and then did tren for the first time (British Dragon) and had it happen almost each injection. He was used to the volume of oil and injection site.

I saw one article speculate about some type of prostaglandin reaction.

Edit; here's the article. Probably bullshit but anyway:
Quote
Tren - Fat Burning and "Fina Cough" both from prostaglandin metabolization

WRITTEN BY PHEEDNO @ AR

It's been widely disussed of Trens fat burning properties through rises in IGF and Prostaglandins. While IGF is a fairly well known substance in the bodybuilding world today, prostaglandins are fairly unknown in terms of formation and roles in the body.
So below, a brief dicription of prostoglandins and their role in fat burning, "fina cough", and why a person going through Tren administration can experience it's fat burning effects without the dreaded "Cough"

The term prostaglandin comes from the word-Prostate. The first prostoglandins were first dicovered in semen about the mid 1930's and it was thought that prostaglandins were made from the prostate. Since this time, it has been dicovered that most prostaglandins are not even constructed in the prostate.

Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue.

Prostaglandins are synthesized from arachidonate(Lipoxygenase which catalyze the dioxygenation of polyunsaturated fatty acids) in the cell membrane by the action of phospholipase A2. Cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase pathways, compete with one another to form prostaglandins(as well as thromboxane or leukotriene-leukotriene being a bronchial stimulator),
In the cyclooxygenase pathway, the prostaglandins D, E and F plus thromboxane and prostacyclin are made. Thromboxanes are made in platelets and cause constriction of vascular smooth muscle and platelet aggregation
Leukotrienes are made in leukocytes and macrophages via the lipoxygenase pathway. They are potent constrictors of the bronchial airways. They are also important in inflammation and hypersensitivity reactions as they increase vascular permeability.

Being that prostaglandins from either pathway, are still fatty acids of a group, they mediate lipid release and controll tissue metabolization, so fat burning is a luxerry of either pathway of formation. It's the pathway from which they are constructed that dictates "fina cough". As prostaglandins made from the Cyclooxygenase pathway dictate muscle constriction and platlet aggregation, and the Lipoxygenase pathway dictates bronchial constriction(the main form of expulsion)


Refs:
Cackatoo Press
Columbia Encyclopedia 6th Edition
Science Daily Magazine

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 08:12:24 AM »
The article you linked to earlier said the opposite, that it occurs LESS with frequent, long cycles.


Huh??

 Pulmonary oil microembolism 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: After injecting 4ccs of EQ the other day I had a very weird reaction. I got light headed and started coughing violently. It lasted for a couple of minutes. The whole time I was lying on the couch, nonstop hacking away. I thought I was going to die. Do you know what happened? I've used half a bottle of that stuff already. Could it have gone bad? Could I have died?

A: What you describe sounds like a relative rare complication with oil depot injections called a pulmonary oil microembolism (POME). The occurs when a large volume of injected oil is picked up by regional lymph nodes, overriding their capacity to drain into the thoracic duct.

What actually happens is some amount of oil is carried into the lungs, causing a violent reaction (a "coughing fit" like you described). The exact cause in your case is a little hard to say, but perhaps it was due to frequent use of high volumes of oil. You mention you were injection 4ccs of EQ at one time. If you have been using one of those 50mg/ml 50-100ml jugs of EQ, I might guess that you have been taking large injections for a while now; maybe just too much in one spot.
It is understood that the threshold for POME is reduced with frequent repeated injections, as the local tissue becomes more saturated with oil. Or on a similar note, perhaps the oil was accidentally injected into a blood vessel. Oil carried into circulation (as when it is injected intravenously) is another was to trigger a pulmonary oil microembolism. This is actually done for certain diagnostic tests, in which a contrast oil (maybe 6-8ml of it) is injected directly into a vein. The oil is used to aid the photography of certain lung tissues.

POME, if indeed that is what you have described, is a serious reaction to injectable medication, but rarely a life threatening one. That should really only be the case if a very large dose of oil were deliberately given. Death from even IV injected oil is not easy to produce and is caused by administrating so much that the cardiovascular system becomes clogged. In rabbits, for example, acute toxity studies have determined that the lethal dose (LD50) for intravenous infusion of sesame oil was 0.74ml/kg of bodyweight. If those numbers translated perfectly to humans, that would be over 70ml of oil injected directly into a vein to kill a 220 lbs adult male. Not saying you should take these numbers to heart (please don't try this at home), but they illustrate that "death from bad injection" is not a major risk for the bodybuilder.

-bron: Body of Science (summer 2005)

The "threshold being reduced" means it happens at a lower level,  meaning it is more likely to happen.  EG "You have a low threshold for pain" Threshold is the point it is triggered.

AZbodybuilder

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2007, 11:17:16 AM »
Just resist the urge to cough and you'll be fine. If you start you'll be coughing for awhile.

Arnold jr

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2007, 11:55:50 AM »
Just resist the urge to cough and you'll be fine. If you start you'll be coughing for awhile.
From the few times I've had it happen, there is no resisting it, it just kind of comes out on it's own.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2007, 12:32:54 PM »
From the few times I've had it happen, there is no resisting it, it just kind of comes out on it's own.

Yeah I agree like I said earlier I have had times when I could sort of control it, it must have been a very small amout in those instances.  But a couple times I could not control the coughing in once it went on for a while.

Also one time I injected, dont remember what but what happened once immediatly upon injection I got a strong metalic taste in my mouth, man it was really strong.  I wonder what that was from?  It went away after a while but was weird.

trab

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 12:51:51 PM »
Yeah I agree like I said earlier I have had times when I could sort of control it, it must have been a very small amout in those instances.  But a couple times I could not control the coughing in once it went on for a while.

Also one time I injected, dont remember what but what happened once immediatly upon injection I got a strong metalic taste in my mouth, man it was really strong.  I wonder what that was from?  It went away after a while but was weird.

YOu were tasting it thru your blood system.
It clearly went thru broken vessels like RDW said..

I had Local cocaine once for pinning some hand bones by the Ortho surgeon,,,,
They drilled them while I was wide awake. I could feel shit sort of splashing on my arm.
take off Mr tourniquet and taste pure pharma Cocaine very strong..
My ears were ringin' and hearing was distorted like I was talkin' into a big ass industrial barn fan.
THen they wheeled me into recovey next to a old lady screaming non-stop.. "Im gonna Die".  ;D
Kind of ruined the nice effect.

I told the nurse thanks and asked for some to go,,, But they must keep it all for themselves...

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Tren Cough and Pre-Contest Dosage?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2007, 02:54:37 PM »
YOu were tasting it thru your blood system.
It clearly went thru broken vessels like RDW said..

I had Local cocaine once for pinning some hand bones by the Ortho surgeon,,,,
They drilled them while I was wide awake. I could feel shit sort of splashing on my arm.
take off Mr tourniquet and taste pure pharma Cocaine very strong..
My ears were ringin' and hearing was distorted like I was talkin' into a big ass industrial barn fan.
THen they wheeled me into recovey next to a old lady screaming non-stop.. "Im gonna Die".  ;D
Kind of ruined the nice effect.

I told the nurse thanks and asked for some to go,,, But they must keep it all for themselves...


LOL

Thats also what accompanys bad injections for me, a ringing in the ears and sweating.  Almost feels like some level of going into shock.

Aint this shit fun!  :-\