Author Topic: Secular Europe, religious America  (Read 3480 times)

loco

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Secular Europe, religious America
« on: January 02, 2008, 07:03:15 AM »
Public Interest,  Spring, 2004  by Brian C. Anderson

Numbers drawn from the long-term European Values Study (EVS) and other research underscore the degree to which Europe has abandoned its Christian heritage. For one thing, the pews of Europe's churches are often empty. In France, only one in twenty people now attends a religious service every week, and the demographic skews to the aged. Only 15 percent of Italians attend weekly while roughly 30 percent of Germans still go to church at least once a month. Indifference is widespread. A mere 21 percent of Europeans hold religion to be "very important." In France, arguably the most secular of Europe's nations outside of the formerly Lutheran countries of northern Europe, the percentage is lower still, at slightly over 10 percent. As Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, archbishop of Milan, lamented in the New York Times in October, "The parishes tell me that there are children who don't know how to make the sign of the cross." Only Europe's growing Muslim population seems to exhibit any religious fervor...

...Empty pews, aging believers, indifference--almost everything about western Europe's religious life conveys the sense of exhaustion and defeat. Almost all of the trend lines have moved in the direction that Gauchet suggests, away from any strong sense of religious identification and toward greater individualism and secularism. The European Union's recent refusal to include any reference to Europe's Christian heritage in its proposed constitution, despite the protests of the Vatican and various European Christian groups, is historically absurd, given Christianity's significant contribution to the development of the idea of human rights. That said, this decision hardly came as a surprise.

...Looking to the United States, a very different religious scene appears--one not of desiccation but of robust faith communities and great spiritual thirst. Upward of 60 percent of Americans (nearly thrice the European percentage) claim that "religion plays a very important role" in their lives. More than 80 percent of Americans (90 percent in some surveys) profess belief in God.

America boasts countless houses of worship. U.S. News & World Report recently noted that there are "more churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques per capita in the United States than in any other nation on Earth: one for about every 865 people." And those houses overflow with worshipers. A full 22 percent of America's 159 million Christians (three-fourths of the adult population) say they attend religious services more than once a week, and almost three quarters of Christians attend at least once or twice a month. "More people in the United States attend religious services on any given weekend than watch football--in all the stadiums, on high school football fields, college campuses, and all the television sets of the nation put together," says Catholic theologian Michael Novak.

Many cable and satellite television and radio stations offer religious programming around the clock. Most bookstores feature well-stocked religion sections, and many of the books shelved there sell briskly, some even becoming best-sellers. Public figures from presidents to basketball stars openly thank God for granting them spiritual strength or success.

America also appears in some ways to be getting more religious, not less. The Pew Research Center found that the number of Americans who "agree strongly" with three fundamental tenets of faith--belief in God, in Judgment Day, and in the importance of prayer--has risen by as much as ten points over the last four decades. Fifteen years ago, the Economist points out, two-fifths of American Protestants described themselves as "born again"--signaling a strong embrace of Christ as personal savior. The percentage has climbed to more than half. Born-again Christians now make up 39 percent of America's adult population. Further, four out of five Americans say they have "experienced God's presence or a spiritual force," and 46 percent maintain it happens to them often. "People are reaching out in all directions in their attempt to escape from the seen world to the unseen world," pollster George Gallup, Jr., tells U.S. News. "There is a deep desire for spiritual moorings--a hunger for God."...

...How are we to explain this divergence in religiosity within the liberal democratic universe? One thing that cannot help us is the "secularization theory" once popular among sociologists. It holds, in Berger's words, that "modernization necessarily leads to a decline of religion, both in society and in the minds of individuals." This theory now seems suspect, as Berger, a former proponent, acknowledges. If modernity inevitably brings secularism, a "disenchantment of the world," then how is it that the United States--the modern nation par excellence--is so religious? Nor is secularization increasing in modernizing areas of the world, from Latin America to the Middle East, Berger points out. Europe today seems more the exception than the rule when it comes to religious belief.

A more plausible explanation points to the very dissimilar histories of how democracy arrived in America and in Europe. The European democratic tradition, the model for which originated in the French Revolution, has been hostile to religion from its inception, and religion, especially the Catholic church, had until recently been hostile to it in return. In America, however, democracy and religion have mostly been friends. Alexis de Tocqueville understood this divergence clearly. "Among us," he wrote of the French in Democracy in America, "I had seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom almost always move in contrary directions." In America, by contrast, Tocqueville found the spirits of religion and democracy "united intimately with one another: they reigned together on the same soil."...

MORE:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_155/ai_n6143340/pg_1

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 07:07:00 AM »
Public Interest,  Spring, 2004  by Brian C. Anderson

Numbers drawn from the long-term European Values Study (EVS) and other research underscore the degree to which Europe has abandoned its Christian heritage. For one thing, the pews of Europe's churches are often empty. In France, only one in twenty people now attends a religious service every week, and the demographic skews to the aged. Only 15 percent of Italians attend weekly while roughly 30 percent of Germans still go to church at least once a month. Indifference is widespread. A mere 21 percent of Europeans hold religion to be "very important." In France, arguably the most secular of Europe's nations outside of the formerly Lutheran countries of northern Europe, the percentage is lower still, at slightly over 10 percent. As Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, archbishop of Milan, lamented in the New York Times in October, "The parishes tell me that there are children who don't know how to make the sign of the cross." Only Europe's growing Muslim population seems to exhibit any religious fervor...

...Looking to the United States, a very different religious scene appears--one not of desiccation but of robust faith communities and great spiritual thirst. Upward of 60 percent of Americans (nearly thrice the European percentage) claim that "religion plays a very important role" in their lives. More than 80 percent of Americans (90 percent in some surveys) profess belief in God.

America boasts countless houses of worship. U.S. News & World Report recently noted that there are "more churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques per capita in the United States than in any other nation on Earth: one for about every 865 people." And those houses overflow with worshipers. A full 22 percent of America's 159 million Christians (three-fourths of the adult population) say they attend religious services more than once a week, and almost three quarters of Christians attend at least once or twice a month. "More people in the United States attend religious services on any given weekend than watch football--in all the stadiums, on high school football fields, college campuses, and all the television sets of the nation put together," says Catholic theologian Michael Novak.

Many cable and satellite television and radio stations offer religious programming around the clock. Most bookstores feature well-stocked religion sections, and many of the books shelved there sell briskly, some even becoming best-sellers. Public figures from presidents to basketball stars openly thank God for granting them spiritual strength or success.

America also appears in some ways to be getting more religious, not less. The Pew Research Center found that the number of Americans who "agree strongly" with three fundamental tenets of faith--belief in God, in Judgment Day, and in the importance of prayer--has risen by as much as ten points over the last four decades. Fifteen years ago, the Economist points out, two-fifths of American Protestants described themselves as "born again"--signaling a strong embrace of Christ as personal savior. The percentage has climbed to more than half. Born-again Christians now make up 39 percent of America's adult population. Further, four out of five Americans say they have "experienced God's presence or a spiritual force," and 46 percent maintain it happens to them often. "People are reaching out in all directions in their attempt to escape from the seen world to the unseen world," pollster George Gallup, Jr., tells U.S. News. "There is a deep desire for spiritual moorings--a hunger for God."...

...How are we to explain this divergence in religiosity within the liberal democratic universe? One thing that cannot help us is the "secularization theory" once popular among sociologists. It holds, in Berger's words, that "modernization necessarily leads to a decline of religion, both in society and in the minds of individuals." This theory now seems suspect, as Berger, a former proponent, acknowledges. If modernity inevitably brings secularism, a "disenchantment of the world," then how is it that the United States--the modern nation par excellence--is so religious? Nor is secularization increasing in modernizing areas of the world, from Latin America to the Middle East, Berger points out. Europe today seems more the exception than the rule when it comes to religious belief.

A more plausible explanation points to the very dissimilar histories of how democracy arrived in America and in Europe. The European democratic tradition, the model for which originated in the French Revolution, has been hostile to religion from its inception, and religion, especially the Catholic church, had until recently been hostile to it in return. In America, however, democracy and religion have mostly been friends. Alexis de Tocqueville understood this divergence clearly. "Among us," he wrote of the French in Democracy in America, "I had seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom almost always move in contrary directions." In America, by contrast, Tocqueville found the spirits of religion and democracy "united intimately with one another: they reigned together on the same soil."...

MORE:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_155/ai_n6143340/pg_1

What's your point loco? We all know there are tons of Christian nutcases in the States and less in Europe.
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loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 07:12:19 AM »
What's your point loco? We all know there are tons of Christian nutcases in the States and less in Europe.

Not all know, and many who do know wonder why.  I'm not making any point, but the article makes good points.

Deicide

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2008, 07:13:42 AM »
Not all know, and many who do know wonder why.  I'm not making any point, but the article makes good points.

Yes, different worlds. Good thing Europe is secular; bad thing is Muslims are invading it.  :-\
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loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2008, 07:21:56 AM »
Yes, different worlds. Good thing Europe is secular; bad thing is Muslims are invading it.  :-\

Which brings me to the question, aren't secular Europeans setting themselves up for extinction?  Isn't a result of secularism in Europe a decline in the population?  There are less traditional marriages, more homosexual marriages, more abortion, more birth control, more suicides, all of which contribute to a reduction in the population.  Who is going to support all those welfare states?  Don't you need kids to grow up, get jobs and be heavily taxed to support those welfare states? 

And while the secular population is decreasing, the Muslim population is increasing.  Are they counting on the Muslims to support their economy in the near future?

Straw Man

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2008, 07:30:13 AM »
Which brings me to the question, aren't secular Europeans setting themselves up for extinction?  Isn't a result of secularism in Europe a decline in the population?  There are less traditional marriages, more homosexual marriages, more abortion, more birth control, more suicides, all of which contribute to a reduction in the population.

The answer to your question is NO

Jesus Christ man how are arriving at these ridiculous conclusions

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2008, 07:31:28 AM »
Which brings me to the question, aren't secular Europeans setting themselves up for extinction?  Isn't a result of secularism in Europe a decline in the population?  There are less traditional marriages, more homosexual marriages, more abortion, more birth control, more suicides, all of which contribute to a reduction in the population.  Who is going to support all those welfare states?  Don't you need kids to grow up, get jobs and be heavily taxed to support those welfare states? 

And while the secular population is decreasing, the Muslim population is increasing.  Are they counting on the Muslims to support their economy in the near future.

Because you religious nutcases breed like rodents. The world is severely overpopulated; that Europe has less children is a good thing. We are rapidly approaching 7 billion people and that can't go on for long. Europeans are still having children, just not 5 or 8 like your average piece of Christian trailer trash in Alabama, maybe one or two. If everyone on earth would just have a maximum of two children we would save the planet and our species from overpopulation. Yes, the Muslims breed like rodents; that is usually the case; the more education and financial status go up, the less children one has and the inverse is true as well. Very sad.
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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2008, 07:31:56 AM »
america is going down and we all know it

loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2008, 07:42:52 AM »
The answer to your question is NO

Jesus Christ man how are arriving at these ridiculous conclusions

So you are saying that less traditional marriages, more homosexual marriages(Which can't have kids and adoption is expensive), more abortions, more birth control, more suicides, absolutely do not and have not contributed at all to a reduction in the western European population?  How could it not?

loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2008, 07:48:05 AM »
Because you religious nutcases breed like rodents. The world is severely overpopulated; that Europe has less children is a good thing.

I don't have any kids.  I agree that overpopulation is not a good thing.  My question was a legitimate question.  What is the ratio of aging Europeans to new born Europeans in welfare states?  Isn't that how it works, the young indirectly support the elder through heavy taxation from the government?

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2008, 08:10:14 AM »
So you are saying that less traditional marriages, more homosexual marriages(Which can't have kids and adoption is expensive), more abortions, more birth control, more suicides, absolutely do not and have not contributed at all to a reduction in the western European population?  How could it not?


show me some proof of direct cause and effect - so far you've shown none

the article you posted doesn't even address any of those issues

seriously - how are you arrving at these "conclusions"

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2008, 08:16:41 AM »

show me some proof of direct cause and effect - so far you've shown none

the article you posted doesn't even address any of those issues

seriously - how are you arrving at these "conclusions"

I'm not arriving at any conclusions.  I'm asking questions and discussing. 

Would secularism lead to less traditional marriages, more homosexual marriages(Which can't have kids and adoption is expensive), more abortions, more birth control, more suicides(legal assisted suicide and more acceptance of suicide by society)?

Would any of the above lead to a reduction in population?

loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2008, 08:25:17 AM »
One result: Fewer children

"Among the most striking consequences of the decline of religion has been fewer children. The birth rate throughout much of Western Europe has fallen so drastically that the population in many countries is shrinking, indicating that women throughout Europe now routinely use artificial birth control, in defiance of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings.

"The biggest single consequence of the declining role of the church is the huge decline in fertility rates," Inglehart says. With fewer people entering the workforce, countries like Italy, Germany and France won't be able to maintain the generous welfare programs that have given most workers a lifetime of economic security.

The waning influence of religion also has brought a change in attitudes and laws on issues such as divorce, abortion, gay marriage and stem cell research."...

..."Europeans debate whether these changes are positive or negative for society."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-10-europe-religion-cover_x.htm

Straw Man

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2008, 09:04:44 AM »
One result: Fewer children

"Among the most striking consequences of the decline of religion has been fewer children. The birth rate throughout much of Western Europe has fallen so drastically that the population in many countries is shrinking, indicating that women throughout Europe now routinely use artificial birth control, in defiance of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings.

"The biggest single consequence of the declining role of the church is the huge decline in fertility rates," Inglehart says. With fewer people entering the workforce, countries like Italy, Germany and France won't be able to maintain the generous welfare programs that have given most workers a lifetime of economic security.

The waning influence of religion also has brought a change in attitudes and laws on issues such as divorce, abortion, gay marriage and stem cell research."...

..."Europeans debate whether these changes are positive or negative for society."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-10-europe-religion-cover_x.htm

ok - well now you're using a new article.

The conclusions are still ludicrous. 

The basic assumption is that the decline in religious belief has led to an increase in birth control which is directly responsible for the decline in the population

And the problem is???

according to the article the problem is not religious but economic.  The claim is the need for more workers to contribute to the coffers of the welfare system???

Do you think it's possible that women use birth control because they'd like to have some CONTROL over their body in order to prevent UNWANTED pregnancy and STD's?

Maybe the population is becoming more educated and rejecting dogma and superstition

This shit ain't that complicated. 

Birth Control/Condoms are a good thing

If you look a bit futher you might actually find that birth rates are negatively correlated with education and economic status i.e the lower the education/economic status the higher the birth rate.

If you look further you might find that education is negatively correlated with religious belief i.e the lower the education the more likely one is to believe is 2000 year old superstitions. 

mightymouse72

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2008, 09:53:48 AM »
Maybe the population is becoming more educated and rejecting dogma and superstition

If you look a bit futher you might actually find that birth rates are negatively correlated with education and economic status i.e the lower the education/economic status the higher the birth rate.

If you look further you might find that education is negatively correlated with religious belief i.e the lower the education the more likely one is to believe is 2000 year old superstitions. 



To take another quote from straw man- "how are you arriving at these ridiculous conclusions."

With all the "maybes" and "you mights", you're not very convincing. 

It's hard for me to understand how anyone living in this world can say with education things get better.
The world is full of so-called smart/educated people and it is in hopeless chaos.  Why anyone would think that the more we disengage from God and religion the better off we'll be.  Can't you see what is going on in the world around you and you want to push God out more??    I see the effects everyday from society that says no to God. 
W

loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2008, 10:00:58 AM »
america is going down and we all know it

I'm sure that people have been saying this for over 200 years, yet America is still here, alive and well, and with the same constitution that it started with.

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2008, 10:11:10 AM »

To take another quote from straw man- "how are you arriving at these ridiculous conclusions."

With all the "maybes" and "you mights", you're not very convincing. 

It's hard for me to understand how anyone living in this world can say with education things get better.
The world is full of so-called smart/educated people and it is in hopeless chaos.  Why anyone would think that the more we disengage from God and religion the better off we'll be.  Can't you see what is going on in the world around you and you want to push God out more??    I see the effects everyday from society that says no to God. 

People were flocking to churches in the early 20th century, yet many lived through two devastating world wars. You say the world is more chaotic today... would you have liked to be a Jew or Gypsy anticipating your fate from a traincar during WWII?  Or living through the bombing of Dresden when your parents were incinerated? The world has always been a chaotic, wacky place... you only think it's worse today because you're alive in it.

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2008, 10:11:47 AM »

To take another quote from straw man- "how are you arriving at these ridiculous conclusions."

With all the "maybes" and "you mights", you're not very convincing. 

It's hard for me to understand how anyone living in this world can say with education things get better.
The world is full of so-called smart/educated people and it is in hopeless chaos.  Why anyone would think that the more we disengage from God and religion the better off we'll be.  Can't you see what is going on in the world around you and you want to push God out more??    I see the effects everyday from society that says no to God. 

fair point - I should have said WILL and not might.

I've read the data but I don't have it at my fingertips right now and I'm working in between glancing at this site.

If you/anyone cares to look you WILL find that birth rates are negatively correlated with education and economic status i.e poor, uneducated people have more kids.

The same is true of religious belief - the less education the more "religious".  

more later - but I doubt it would make any difference in anyones point of view


loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2008, 10:28:27 AM »
People were flocking to churches in the early 20th century, yet many lived through two devastating world wars. You say the world is more chaotic today... would you have liked to be a Jew or Gypsy anticipating your fate from a traincar during WWII?  Or living through the bombing of Dresden when your parents were incinerated? The world has always been a chaotic, wacky place... you only think it's worse today because you're alive in it.

Not arguing with you, Deedee, just a side note that causes for WWI and WWII were not religious, but secular: Nationalism and Darwinism.

National Rivalries
http://www.thecorner.org/hist/wwi/national.htm

“Hitler believed in struggle as a Darwinian principle of human life that forced every people to try to dominate all others; without struggle they would rot and perish … . Even in his own defeat in April 1945, Hitler expressed his faith in the survival of the stronger and declared the Slavic peoples to have proven themselves the stronger.” 
Peter Hoffman, Hitler’s Personal Security (Oxford, UK: Pergamon Press, 1979), p. 264.

“To see evolutionary measures and tribal morality being applied vigorously to the affairs of a great modern nation, we must turn again to Germany of 1942. We see Hitler devoutly convinced that evolution produces the only real basis for a national policy … . The means he adopted to secure the destiny of his race and people were organized slaughter, which has drenched Europe in blood … . Such conduct is highly immoral as measured by every scale of ethics, yet Germany justifies it; it is consonant with tribal or evolutionary morality. Germany has reverted to the tribal past, and is demonstrating to the world, in their naked ferocity, the methods of evolution.”
Sir Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: Putman, 1947), p. 28.

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2008, 10:42:05 AM »
Hitler constantly used Catholic/christian rhetoric to rouse an angry, economically-ravaged people to kill others. Most of his hysterical speeches included it. He was def NOT in favor of education for the masses and many scholars and educators were harrassed, if not imprisoned. He preferred to keep them dumb and working the farms. The educated ask questions.  Isn't it also nice to know, since suicide is not a mortal sin, that all he had to do in the moments before his death was confess and repent, accept Jesus, and he too was saved? 

loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2008, 11:19:13 AM »
Hitler constantly used Catholic/christian rhetoric to rouse an angry, economically-ravaged people to kill others. Most of his hysterical speeches included it. He was def NOT in favor of education for the masses and many scholars and educators were harrassed, if not imprisoned. He preferred to keep them dumb and working the farms. The educated ask questions.  Isn't it also nice to know, since suicide is not a mortal sin, that all he had to do in the moments before his death was confess and repent, accept Jesus, and he too was saved? 

Of course Hitler used Catholic/Christian rhetoric.  He wouldn't want the Catholic and Lutheran Germans to oppose him.  It was in Hitler's best interest to have them on his side.  But it back fired on him.  The closest that anyone came to assassinating him was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg, a devout Roman Catholic whose faith would not allow him to do nothing about Hitler's treatment of the Jews.  By the way, a movie about this called "Valkyrie" starring Tom Cruise will be released on October 3, 2008.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985699/

And then there is German Lutheran pastor and theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer.  In response to Hitler's treatment of the Jews, Bonhoeffer's faith eventually let him to become a participant in the German Resistance movement against Nazism.  He was involved in plots to assassinate Adolf Hitler, including the one above. He was arrested, imprisoned, tortured, and eventually hanged for helping Jews escape the Nazis.

But the cause of WWII is still not religious.

If I'm not mistaken, the Roman Catholic church says that suicide will send you straight to hell no matter how good a person, or a Christian or how good a Catholic you were.  Protestants disagree.  We believe that a true Christian who becomes emotionally ill and makes the mistake of taking his/her life will still go to heaven.  Hitler was not a true Christian who became emotionally ill and took his life as a result.  He was not sorry about his evil deeds, he was sorry that he lost.  He committed suicide because he did not want to be captured by the Russians.  He had his body burned to ashes because he did not want the Russians to display his dead body in a museum.

Deedee

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2008, 11:36:52 AM »
None of us knows what was in Hitler's heart moments before he died.  :)

But this is a tangent.  I wasn't pointing to WWII as a fight over religion. Just pointing out that the world is never in a state of utopia. I'd rather be alive today in this culture, than back in Dresden during the bombings. Or for that matter, in the time of Elizabeth/Mary when one day it was okay to be catholic, the next the protestants were in and catholics were being slaughtered in the streets. The world is just chaotic. Every generation of old people since the beginning of time view the young as immoral and see the end of civilization looming, and yet, somehow, we persevere.  :)

loco

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2008, 11:44:07 AM »
None of us knows what was in Hitler's heart moments before he died.  :)

That is true.  I did not know Hitler personally.  So I just go by what I read about him.  For starters, though things probably did happen as written, I personally don't even know if he committed suicide or was murdered.

But this is a tangent.  I wasn't pointing to WWII as a fight over religion. Just pointing out that the world is never in a state of utopia. I'd rather be alive today in this culture, than back in Dresden during the bombings. Or for that matter, in the time of Elizabeth/Mary when one day it was okay to be catholic, the next the protestants were in and catholics were being slaughtered in the streets. The world is just chaotic. Every generation of old people since the beginning of time view the young as immoral and see the end of civilization looming, and yet, somehow, we persevere.  :)

I know.  You make good points.  Mine was just a side note about WWI and WWII.

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2008, 05:32:24 PM »
Europe is one of the most densely populated areas in the world - I don't know how anyone can argue that a declining birth rate is a bad thing in such circumstances.

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Re: Secular Europe, religious America
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2008, 07:04:19 PM »
Not arguing with you, Deedee, just a side note that causes for WWI and WWII were not religious, but secular: Nationalism and Darwinism.

National Rivalries
http://www.thecorner.org/hist/wwi/national.htm

“Hitler believed in struggle as a Darwinian principle of human life that forced every people to try to dominate all others; without struggle they would rot and perish … . Even in his own defeat in April 1945, Hitler expressed his faith in the survival of the stronger and declared the Slavic peoples to have proven themselves the stronger.” 
Peter Hoffman, Hitler’s Personal Security (Oxford, UK: Pergamon Press, 1979), p. 264.

“To see evolutionary measures and tribal morality being applied vigorously to the affairs of a great modern nation, we must turn again to Germany of 1942. We see Hitler devoutly convinced that evolution produces the only real basis for a national policy … . The means he adopted to secure the destiny of his race and people were organized slaughter, which has drenched Europe in blood … . Such conduct is highly immoral as measured by every scale of ethics, yet Germany justifies it; it is consonant with tribal or evolutionary morality. Germany has reverted to the tribal past, and is demonstrating to the world, in their naked ferocity, the methods of evolution.”
Sir Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: Putman, 1947), p. 28.

Yes, overall dogma is the problem and it can be a secular dogma or a religious one; when people accept things without good reasons and evidence they fall for dogma. Religion just happens to be the most persistent type or irrational dogma and unfortunately enjoys great longevity as well.
I hate the State.