Reason #1 not to have ANY of the democrats as president.

[240 is Back]

One way or another we are paying for it.  Only the current way, someone else is making a huge profit.

Can you explain that to mightymouse?

His whole beef of "I shouldn't have to pay for it" is illogical. 

[mightymouse72]

Can you explain that to mightymouse?

His whole beef of "I shouldn't have to pay for it" is illogical. 

what could be more logical than not wanting to pay for someone's healthcare that can afford it?? 

now you tell me, do you want your tax money going to pay for that?? 

please, for the love of mike, don't give any dumb scenarios.  just yes or no

[OzmO]

Can you explain that to mightymouse?

His whole beef of "I shouldn't have to pay for it" is illogical. 

Maybe he thinks emergency rooms shouldn't treat uninsured patients.   I donno.   Maybe he thinks pharm and insurance companies aren't bigger and more powerful than they were 30 years ago.  Maybe he thinks generic drugs from Canada aren't the same as more expensive  brand name drugs from America.  I donno what he thinks.

I do agree with him about not wanting to pay for that guy, but we pay either way. 

I also don't want 20 million of my tax dollars spent for a victory party after the Iraq invasion.

Our system is very flawed and borders on corruption.  It seems Pharm companies have a subtle and indirect monopoly in this country.

[240 is Back]

what could be more logical than not wanting to pay for someone's healthcare that can afford it?? 

now you tell me, do you want your tax money going to pay for that?? 

please, for the love of mike, don't give any dumb scenarios.  just yes or no

Fvck no, I don't want my tax money going to it.

Just like I don't want my tax $ going to caring for illegals, junkies, or ppl too lazy to work who claim disability.

But---

I am smart enough to understand that you HAVE to take care of these people.

Because it you don't, they will get sick, and they will die.  And they will commit crimes.  They will spread diseases.  They will make my country unsafe.  It's easy to say "Their problem, not mine!"   But when sick people start doing desperate shit to eat or get medicine or money for treatment, yes, it'll affect all of us.  

[OzmO]

what could be more logical than not wanting to pay for someone's healthcare that can afford it?? 

now you tell me, do you want your tax money going to pay for that?? 

please, for the love of mike, don't give any dumb scenarios.  just yes or no

Do 1/6 Americans not have H.I. because they can afford it but choose not to?

Are you suggesting everyone can afford health insurance?   

I really don't know the answer.   I can afford it fine, but it is a major monthly expense that has gone up seemingly every couple of years.

[Decker]

Keep ur socialist bullshit in Canada..I'm not paying more money to support those who leach off of our system. We now have states that will cover illiegal aliens. So what i will have to pay for anybody who manages to set foot in the US. A blended system where insurance is affordable would be great and could work but every douche bag with a lawyer will have to stop sueing or we'll get nowhere.

What you refer to as 'Socialism' is really a moderated form of Capitalism.  Pure Socialism would be something like an ESOP where employees own the means of production.

Here's where socialism has produced a vibrant, healthy country where people thrive:  Britain.

Britain has a form of Universal healthcare that, in terms of availability/access, quality and outcome, is superior to the privatized system in the US.  And it costs 40% less per person.  http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

So there you are.  Better care through universal care at almost half the cost.

Unless you like to pay the feudal lords of privatized medicine for their corporate headquarters, CEO compensation, corporate jets, PGA tour sponsorships, and on and on.  The privatized system is not working.

Remember where our privatized system of Healthcare has gotten us:

1         France
2         Italy
3         San Marino
4         Andorra
5         Malta
6         Singapore
7         Spain
8         Oman
9         Austria
10        Japan
11        Norway
12        Portugal
13        Monaco
14        Greece
15        Iceland
16        Luxembourg
17        Netherlands
18        United  Kingdom
19        Ireland
20        Switzerland
21        Belgium
22        Colombia
23        Sweden
24        Cyprus
25        Germany
26        Saudi Arabia
27        United  Arab  Emirates
28        Israel
29        Morocco
30        Canada
31        Finland
32        Australia
33        Chile
34        Denmark
35        Dominica
36        Costa Rica
37        United  States  of  America
38        Slovenia
39        Cuba
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

For the love of God, the Arabs are kicking our ass.

[Dos Equis]

We've had this discussion on the board before, but I think most people have access to healthcare, particularly in Hawaii.  Here, every employer must provide full-time employees with health insurance.  There is also Medicare, Medicaid, and Quest (our state equivalent).  Kids can always get free immunizations.  We have county/state hospitals that provide free health care.  Anyone can get emergency treatment, regardless of income. 

There are legitimate issues regarding the quality of care, but there really is no need to have a federal government takeover of the healthcare system.  It will cost everyone more money. 

[mightymouse72]

Do 1/6 Americans not have H.I. because they can afford it but choose not to?

Are you suggesting everyone can afford health insurance?   

I really don't know the answer.   I can afford it fine, but it is a major monthly expense that has gone up seemingly every couple of years.

I don't know about the 1/6 number but, yes I do believe a majority of Americans CHOOSE not to have health care.  My best friend and his wife never had it until they had their daughter. 
My guess would be because want to have better status-symbols to brag about- nicer cars, all the new fancy tech-gadgets I could go on but you understand.  Like I stated previously; health insurance should be a priority for every working adult, a part of your basic needs to live.
Of course there are people who can't genuinely can't afford it. To that I don't know the answer.  There's enough of my taxes going to gov't funded med-costs programs.  Let them figure it out.

[Decker]

I don't know about the 1/6 number but, yes I do believe a majority of Americans CHOOSE not to have health care.  My best friend and his wife never had it until they had their daughter. 
My guess would be because want to have better status-symbols to brag about- nicer cars, all the new fancy tech-gadgets I could go on but you understand.  Like I stated previously; health insurance should be a priority for every working adult, a part of your basic needs to live.
Of course there are people who can't genuinely can't afford it. To that I don't know the answer.  There's enough of my taxes going to gov't funded med-costs programs.  Let them figure it out.

I choose not to drive a mercedes.  I can't afford it. 

B/c of cost reasons, it is more affordable for employers to offer healthcare as part of compensation.  Employers can't even afford to keep a healthcare plan in place.

When catastrophic illness strikes, people die and families go broke.

If the privatized system in the US costs more than the UHC system of Britain (40% less per person) and the British system has better results, what exactly is the argumet for retaining privatized healthcare?

[Decker]

We've had this discussion on the board before, but I think most people have access to healthcare, particularly in Hawaii.  Here, every employer must provide full-time employees with health insurance.  There is also Medicare, Medicaid, and Quest (our state equivalent).  Kids can always get free immunizations.  We have county/state hospitals that provide free health care.  Anyone can get emergency treatment, regardless of income. 

There are legitimate issues regarding the quality of care, but there really is no need to have a federal government takeover of the healthcare system.  It will cost everyone more money. 

What of the under-insured or those that do not qualify for Medicare? 

Immunization?  That doesn't help for preventative medicine, does it.  And by the time emergency care is required, it's too late cost-wise.

[Dos Equis]

What of the under-insured or those that do not qualify for Medicare? 

Immunization?  That doesn't help for preventative medicine, does it.  And by the time emergency care is required, it's too late cost-wise.

Quest and our state hospital. 

Immunization is one of the primary forms of prevention. 

[Decker]

Quest and our state hospital. 

Immunization is one of the primary forms of prevention. 

40-49 million are still uninsured.  More and more private employers simply cannot afford coverage of the rank n file.

Immunization is no replacement for a check-up with a doctor.

Under the current privatized healthcare regime, costs are exploding, medical results stink, and the public is getting hosed b/c insurance companies and big Pharmaceuticals want their profits sky high.

Medical coverage/treatment is a free market failure.

[240 is Back]

Of course there are people who can't genuinely can't afford it. To that I don't know the answer.  There's enough of my taxes going to gov't funded med-costs programs.  Let them figure it out.

They will "figure it out".  

When they need money for surgery, they will stick a gun in your face and take your wallet.  When they need money for medicine, they will beg outside your local grocery store.  When they don't get treatment, they will pass their diseases to you and your family.  Then, they will eventually die.

"Let them figure it out" means your standard of living in the USA starts to fall.  It means smallpox and TB outbreaks.  After all, 1/6 of the poor kids like "Tyrell" won't have their immunization, but they'll still share toys with your kid in school.

See the problem, yet?

[24KT]

They will "figure it out".  

When they need money for surgery, they will stick a gun in your face and take your wallet.  When they need money for medicine, they will beg outside your local grocery store.  When they don't get treatment, they will pass their diseases to you and your family.  Then, they will eventually die.

"Let them figure it out" means your standard of living in the USA starts to fall.  It means smallpox and TB outbreaks.  After all, 1/6 of the poor kids like "Tyrell" won't have their immunization, but they'll still share toys with your kid in school.

See the problem, yet?

I'm sure his kids will be thoroughly indoctrinated to never considering having anything to do with "Tyrell's" kids.

[OzmO]

I don't know about the 1/6 number but, yes I do believe a majority of Americans CHOOSE not to have health care.  My best friend and his wife never had it until they had their daughter. 
My guess would be because want to have better status-symbols to brag about- nicer cars, all the new fancy tech-gadgets I could go on but you understand.  Like I stated previously; health insurance should be a priority for every working adult, a part of your basic needs to live.
Of course there are people who can't genuinely can't afford it. To that I don't know the answer.  There's enough of my taxes going to gov't funded med-costs programs.  Let them figure it out.

I'd be interested to see if there are any real number to how many people can afford insurance and choose not to, versus, how many people just cannot afford it.  I believe the opposite.  Especially in California by the major cities as rent for a crappy 2 bedroom apartment commonly starts a $1200-1500 a month. 

Average income being about 40,000 per year per family.

Understanding we are talking about the bottom 1/3 or the lower half (1/6) 

Understanding that it costs about $250 per person each month for full coverage, $120-150 for partial coverage that doesn't cover doctor visits and only pays for large problems.

If 2 adults with 2 children are working 40 hours a week and are only earning $20/hour between them.........   $800 per week less taxes = $700 per week or 2800 per month less 1200 for rent, and $500-1000 for health care.   Doesn't leave much.  especially when you factor in car insurance gas, clothing, child care and food.

I realize I'm thinking out loud here, but i don't buy it.  I think most people "choose" to eat and have save some money becuase the cost of H. I. is too expensive.   I'm sure there are exceptions, with some idiots choosing a "nice" car, but i think you may stereotyping here as that would be the exception and not the norm.

The answer?

The answer is fixing our bloated wasteful government.  No need to raise taxes, just spend the money better and then we can afford to have health care for every child.  Another answer would be what HH6 said.  And of course do something about the monopoly pharm companies have on our medicine.

I pay about $250 per person per month.  I remember when i got the same health care, only about 10 years ago for about $100 per. 

Go figure.