Decker is a Hypocrite !

[Decker]

You realize you're advocating anarchy, right? 

Wrong.  Disobeying illegal and/or immoral directives is what a good soldier should do.

Pure anarchy results in a situation where each individual looks out only for himself, and it's kill or be killed. Nothing stops murder rape, and theft; only the strongest survive.  That is definitely not what I'm advocating.

[Dos Equis]

Wrong.  Disobeying illegal and/or immoral directives is what a good soldier should do.

Pure anarchy results in a situation where each individual looks out only for himself, and it's kill or be killed. Nothing stops murder rape, and theft; only the strongest survive.  That is definitely not what I'm advocating.

Oh please.  If thousands of soldiers desert the military in time of war that is pure anarchy.

[youandme]

Wrong.  Disobeying illegal and/or immoral directives is what a good soldier should do.

So are you going to start being a good citizen now? By doing your part to reform the political system, and stop paying taxes....

Ekk god man stand up for your opinion, write the IRS today and tell them you don't support the war so you will withhold 20% of your taxes to yourself and donate it to protests.

[Decker]

Decker, "We all have free will.  There were conscientious objectors during WWII and that was a legal war."

You said we live in a pluralistic society, humanistic, and existentialism have no place in a pluralistic society.

These kids have two options, 1) go to war, do all they can to survive and come home to see their families, 2) don't go and go to prison for many years putting financial strain and burden on their families.

Well that's not a shell shocker.

You can rebel against a cause that society deems unfair, or unfit for the cause but the larger effect is those inocent people that are affected by it....1 being the soldiers.

But if you really want to rebel,  since you believe in humanistics, then quit paying your taxes that support in part the war.

Like I said before, I have no stake in Iraq.  I'm sick of the dying and the killing.  I want it to end.

Why should I stop paying my taxes?  How does that defund the war?  Congress and Bush are borrowing billions from the Chinese to pay for the war.

In fact, I'm going to do all that I can to help our country by shopping as per the President's request.

On the practical and legal side, the US and allies from WWII did not go after the Axis citizen taxpayers.  I am not pulling the trigger in Iraq, the soldiers are.

There is no statute of limitations for murder/war crimes.

The choices left to these kids are these:

1. Serve and quite possibly participate in the killing in Iraq, leaving a cloud of murder over their heads for the rest of their natural lives,

2.  Object to the war and refuse service on grounds of conscientious objection.  After a trial, the soldier may win or lose. 

It's a tough a call and I as I said before, it's up to the individual's own conscience.

I just saw another Wisconsin kid was reported killed in Iraq.  He was 30.

[Decker]

So are you going to start being a good citizen now? By doing your part to reform the political system, and stop paying taxes....

Ekk god man stand up for your opinion, write the IRS today and tell them you don't support the war so you will withhold 20% of your taxes to yourself and donate it to protests.

Read my prior post.  Your request to stop paying my taxes is obfuscative drivel.

[Decker]

Oh please.  If thousands of soldiers desert the military in time of war that is pure anarchy.

We are not in a time of war.

War has not been declared.

We have a military action that is illegal.

You speculate that chaos or 'anarchy' will ensue.  I don't.

[youandme]

Read my prior post.  Your request to stop paying my taxes is obfuscative drivel.

yeah that request is drivel 

lol

[Decker]

yeah that request is drivel 

lol

20% Withholding does not finance our war efforts.  It pays for SS, medicare, etc.

Like I said, withholding my income tax payments is foolish and counterproductive and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It's a good thing you posted the little smiley-face so I can see your side of the argument.

[youandme]

20% Withholding does not finance our war efforts.  It pays for SS, medicare, etc.

Like I said, withholding my income tax payments is foolish and counterproductive and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It's a good thing you posted the little smiley-face so I can see your side of the argument.

20% is just a number you can start off with, once your movement catches on then you can raise it.

And yes income tax does pay for Iraq, congress wants to put a surcharge on income tax, and during WWII income tax rose up to 70%

Do your part Decker.

War tax resisters balk at paying for American militarism

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/13/2004/589

[Dos Equis]

We are not in a time of war.

War has not been declared.

We have a military action that is illegal.

You speculate that chaos or 'anarchy' will ensue.  I don't.

Pure semantics.  A declaration of war is completely irrelevant to an armed forces member's service.  The order to go into combat still comes from the Commander in Chief. 

I can't believe you're trying to justify something like this.  Service members cannot simply walk off the job.  People's lives are at stake.   

Headhunter where are you?   

[Decker]

20% is just a number you can start off with, once your movement catches on then you can raise it.

And yes income tax does pay for Iraq, congress wants to put a surcharge on income tax, and during WWII income tax rose up to 70%

Do your part Decker.

War tax resisters balk at paying for American militarism

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/13/2004/589

youandme just loves symbolism over substance--that's exactly what tax resisters are about.  It's a losing proposition that has never been viable.  No shit income taxes pay for the military.  

As I said, I am not the one pulling the trigger in Iraq.

I pay my taxes but I pay them under protest.  I believe the military should be funded with my tax dollar.  I believe the military needs my support.  I am no free rider.  But I also believe the military is being misused in Iraq.  So I submit my taxes with a letter of protest.

Equating my situation with that of the soldiers in Iraq is foolish.

[Decker]

Pure semantics.  A declaration of war is completely irrelevant to an armed forces member's service.  The order to go into combat still comes from the Commander in Chief. 

I can't believe you're trying to justify something like this.  Service members cannot simply walk off the job.  People's lives are stake.   

Headhunter where are you?   

No it is not pure semantics.  The Constitution requires the Congress to declare war on another country before military force can be used.

The War Powers Resolution permits the president as cmdr n chief the power to use force on a limited basis where a formal declaration of war has not been issued.

The US never declared war on Iraq.  And Bush misused his authority as cmdr n chief by attacking Iraq for no good reason.
"...simply walk off the job..."  When you put it that way you grotesquely misstate my point. 

Why are they walking off the job?  Is there a good reason for laying down their arms and forgoing the Iraq mess? 

Yes, the invasion is illegal.

HH is watching the game.  And I am going home to watch it as well.

Enjoy the football game Beach Bum.

[youandme]

I pay my taxes but I pay them under protest.  

Thank you.

My point, your still paying them under protest. Soldiers are still going to war in protest. Some gearing up their dislike for the war by use of blogs, and talking to the media. Some soldiers may come home and protest on "their own time" since they signed a contract, a contract to serve the US, and obey commanders in ranking order under no questions.

[Dos Equis]

No it is not pure semantics.  The Constitution requires the Congress to declare war on another country before military force can be used.

The War Powers Resolution permits the president as cmdr n chief the power to use force on a limited basis where a formal declaration of war has not been issued.

The US never declared war on Iraq.  And Bush misused his authority as cmdr n chief by attacking Iraq for no good reason.
"...simply walk off the job..."  When you put it that way you grotesquely misstate my point. 

Why are they walking off the job?  Is there a good reason for laying down their arms and forgoing the Iraq mess? 

Yes, the invasion is illegal.

HH is watching the game.  And I am going home to watch it as well.

Enjoy the football game Beach Bum.

So we weren't at war in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and Iraq?  You can call it whatever you want, but the missions, bullets, missiles, etc. don't change because Congress didn't issue a declaration of war.  Combat is combat.  War is war.  I know the technical differences, but it really is semantics when it comes to the boots on the ground.   

Walking off the job just shows how absurd the proposition is Decker.  You can walk into your office and quit your job tomorrow.  If a solider decides to quit on the battle field, people can die, and he goes to prison.  You're advocating total chaos. 

[kh300]

Like I said before, I have no stake in Iraq.  I'm sick of the dying and the killing.  I want it to end.

Why should I stop paying my taxes?  How does that defund the war?  Congress and Bush are borrowing billions from the Chinese to pay for the war.

In fact, I'm going to do all that I can to help our country by shopping as per the President's request.

On the practical and legal side, the US and allies from WWII did not go after the Axis citizen taxpayers.  I am not pulling the trigger in Iraq, the soldiers are.

There is no statute of limitations for murder/war crimes.

The choices left to these kids are these:

1. Serve and quite possibly participate in the killing in Iraq, leaving a cloud of murder over their heads for the rest of their natural lives,

2.  Object to the war and refuse service on grounds of conscientious objection.  After a trial, the soldier may win or lose. 

It's a tough a call and I as I said before, it's up to the individual's own conscience.

I just saw another Wisconsin kid was reported killed in Iraq.  He was 30.

wernt you just arguing the fact that its the soldiers choice to sign up and be there? i believe you said they have to deal with the choice they made.

but all of a sudden your sick of them dying and you want them to come home? which is it?

[kh300]

All right son.  I do share some similarities with Edwards:  we are both lawyers, we are both handsome dogs.

let me take a wild guess -defense attorney.

and no you not a handsome dog. liberals are ugly. your whole believe system is based on this fact. you want what isn't yours. you want things to be equal. you think nothings fair.. republicans say your stuck with what you have.  guess who isn't complaining about what there stuck with? not the ugly ones.

and we all know good looking people get advantages in life, something you ugly liberals hate. thats why you hate us so much

think about it

[gcb]

Decker has to pick his battles ... he could stop paying taxes and go to jail, but he decides not too - does that mean he supports the war?

[Decker]

Thank you.

My point, your still paying them under protest. Soldiers are still going to war in protest. Some gearing up their dislike for the war by use of blogs, and talking to the media. Some soldiers may come home and protest on "their own time" since they signed a contract, a contract to serve the US, and obey commanders in ranking order under no questions.

But I do not shop at Walmart and I do not buy Chinese foreign goods.  So I am undercutting the people really financing the war--the Chinese.

My tax dollar funds the entire military not just the parts I want it to fund.

Equating my payment of taxes with US troops killing people in Iraq is weak and a perversion of reason.

Killing someone and paying a tax are two different things.  Did the US lock up the german and japanese taxpayers for warcrimes?

No, only those pulling the trigger.

[Decker]

So we weren't at war in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and Iraq?  You can call it whatever you want, but the missions, bullets, missiles, etc. don't change because Congress didn't issue a declaration of war.  Combat is combat.  War is war.  I know the technical differences, but it really is semantics when it comes to the boots on the ground.   

Walking off the job just shows how absurd the proposition is Decker.  You can walk into your office and quit your job tomorrow.  If a solider decides to quit on the battle field, people can die, and he goes to prison.  You're advocating total chaos. 

You call it "walking off the job"  and I call "not killing people who have done nothing to the US". 

You are advocating a more orderly killing and brutalization of the Iraqi people.

And why?  B/c we are there.  We might as well just get used to it.  Roll over and continue the killing.

It doesn't matter the reason, the morality, or the results...we are there and we must keep pulling the trigger.

"people can die"....are you serious? 

Have you seen the fatality numbers?  70,000 to 650,000 deaths depending on the source.

[Decker]

wernt you just arguing the fact that its the soldiers choice to sign up and be there? i believe you said they have to deal with the choice they made.

but all of a sudden your sick of them dying and you want them to come home? which is it?

I wasn't aware that these things are mutually exclusive.

[Decker]

let me take a wild guess -defense attorney.

and no you not a handsome dog. liberals are ugly. your whole believe system is based on this fact. you want what isn't yours. you want things to be equal. you think nothings fair.. republicans say your stuck with what you have.  guess who isn't complaining about what there stuck with? not the ugly ones.

and we all know good looking people get advantages in life, something you ugly liberals hate. thats why you hate us so much

think about it

Thinking about your half-crazed, half-assed estimations about what a liberal is will do nothing but cause me to laugh a little bit harder at your critical abilities.

[Decker]

Decker has to pick his battles ... he could stop paying taxes and go to jail, but he decides not too - does that mean he supports the war?

I didn't start this topic.  I guess my opponents have given up trying to discuss the war on its own merits b/c that would force them to acknowledge the whole unsavory illegality of the Iraq disaster.

So now they come after me personally.  Attacking me instead of the political issues at hand. 

I like that.  I like to see my opponents scramble.

Read my response about not supporting the Chinese government by not buying chinese products, i.e. shopping at Walmart...they are the ones paying for our Iraqi disaster.

Wasn't this war supposed to fund itself through Iraqi oil?

What's with the Chinese then?

[gcb]

I didn't start this topic.  I guess my opponents have given up trying to discuss the war on its own merits b/c that would force them to acknowledge the whole unsavory illegality of the Iraq disaster.

So now they come after me personally.  Attacking me instead of the political issues at hand. 

I like that.  I like to see my opponents scramble.

Read my response about not supporting the Chinese government by not buying chinese products, i.e. shopping at Walmart...they are the ones paying for our Iraqi disaster.

Wasn't this war supposed to fund itself through Iraqi oil?

What's with the Chinese then?

Hey, I'm not attacking you I'm just saying there is more than one way to oppose the war.