Author Topic: Ron Paul on Israel (Read 1401 times)

loco · « **on:** January 21, 2008, 06:09:05 AM »

Still, Paul is polite to the Israeli nudnik attempting to trip him up: "I'm not anti-Israel in any way," he says. Paul has no problem with the idea of America's maintaining good trade relations with Israel, or with with seeing Israeli tourists in the U.S. and vice versa. The suspicions about him, he assumes, come from the fact that he opposes economic and military aid to Israel. But, he stresses, it's not just Israel, it's any country. In fact, Paul explains, Israel only stands to gain from his position. "It's a good deal," he says, since when aid to Israel stops so would the aid to all the Arab states currently enjoying American patronage. It is true that Israel receives more than any of the Arab states, but, Paul notes, it receives less than they do put together. "The enemies would also be denied the money," he says.

"I believe in the sovereignty of Israel," Paul says. If Israel stops receiving U.S. aid, then it could do whatever it wants. If it wants peace, then it will make peace. In any event, Paul is certain that "It will do quite well." Israel doesn't really "need us."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/942438.html

loco · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2008, 06:25:45 AM »

Quote

If Israel stops receiving U.S. aid, then it could do whatever it wants.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/942438.html

Remember how Bush Sr. told Israel to not retaliate against Iraq over the scud attacks? Israel would not likely have obeyed this order had it not been for the military and economic aid the US provides. Israel's inhibitions in defending herself are undoubtedly affected by this alliance with the U.S.; an alliance that does not (if it ever did) serve either the US or Israeli national interest. It is therefore no great logical jump to believe that such manipulation of Israeli affairs by the U.S. necessitates a strong pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. to get it to do for Israel what the US will not allow her to do herself.

Remember the U.S. condemnation of Israel over the bombing of the Iraqi nuclear reactor in the 80s. One needn't be a conspiracy theorist to see that Israel's reaction to such reactions of the US would reasonably be to say, "OK, well then, do it yourself!"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=942969&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

Dos Equis · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2008, 08:26:57 AM »

Quote from: loco on January 21, 2008, 06:25:45 AM

Remember how Bush Sr. told Israel to not retaliate against Iraq over the scud attacks? Israel would not likely have obeyed this order had it not been for the military and economic aid the US provides. Israel's inhibitions in defending herself are undoubtedly affected by this alliance with the U.S.; an alliance that does not (if it ever did) serve either the US or Israeli national interest. It is therefore no great logical jump to believe that such manipulation of Israeli affairs by the U.S. necessitates a strong pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. to get it to do for Israel what the US will not allow her to do herself.

Remember the U.S. condemnation of Israel over the bombing of the Iraqi nuclear reactor in the 80s. One needn't be a conspiracy theorist to see that Israel's reaction to such reactions of the US would reasonably be to say, "OK, well then, do it yourself!"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=942969&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

Israel not retaliating for the scud missile attacks likely prevented a full scale war in the Middle East.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2008, 08:29:43 AM »

I'm all for cutting off aid to everybody and reevaluating...but Israel would be first on a short list to get back in line. We need them...the rest can starve. It will never happen unless we can get off foreign oil.

Bindare_Dundat · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2008, 08:32:46 AM »

This is why Ron will never be president. You can't be a presidential canidate and not support Isreal 100% of the way in everything their government wants to do. Especially with a lobby as strong as the Isreali Jews are.

It's funny how no one reallly talks about all the Isreali agents that are working to steal valuable secret documents from the US.

Colossus_500 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2008, 02:21:20 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on January 21, 2008, 08:29:43 AM

I'm all for cutting off aid to everybody and reevaluating...but Israel would be first on a short list to get back in line. We need them...the rest can starve. It will never happen unless we can get off foreign oil.

My sentiments as well, bro.

Bindare_Dundat · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2008, 02:22:33 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on January 21, 2008, 08:29:43 AM

I'm all for cutting off aid to everybody and reevaluating...but Israel would be first on a short list to get back in line. We need them...the rest can starve. It will never happen unless we can get off foreign oil.

Please tell me why we NEED Isreal?

JOHN MATRIX · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2008, 05:39:31 PM »

Quote from: Bindare_Dundat on January 21, 2008, 02:22:33 PM

Please tell me why we NEED Isreal?

we dont.

Bindare_Dundat · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2008, 07:10:44 PM »

Quote from: JOHN MATRIX on January 21, 2008, 05:39:31 PM

we dont.

Your right. I love how silent the thread gets when you ask one simple question.

JBGRAY · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:06:23 AM »

How about the silence that is met when you tell someone the identity of the ones who own most of our media outlets and hold governmental positions in comparison to the actual percentage of those that reside in the US. Viacom, Walt Disney, AOL/Time Warner, CBS President, Miramax, the New Republic, much of Fox. You don't even need to see the list of politicans and special interest groups to know the score.

So, regardless of whether Israel is factually important to us or not, it's influence is great within all of our institutions. And that is all that matters.

The Squadfather · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:09:48 AM »

Quote from: Bindare_Dundat on January 21, 2008, 08:32:46 AM

This is why Ron will never be president. You can't be a presidential canidate and not support Isreal 100% of the way in everything their government wants to do. Especially with a lobby as strong as the Isreali Jews are.

It's funny how no one reallly talks about all the Isreali agents that are working to steal valuable secret documents from the US.

i agree a million percent.

loco · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:00:37 PM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on January 21, 2008, 08:26:57 AM

Israel not retaliating for the scud missile attacks likely prevented a full scale war in the Middle East.

True. I believe more than one major war involving Israel has been prevented this way. I'm not saying this is a reason why the US should continue to support Israel, but stopping US military and economic aid to Israel would be to "unleash" Israel. Israel would bomb Iran and anyone else who threatens Israel in a heart beat.

As an individual, I support Israel and always will.

Bodvar · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:13:57 PM »

Quote from: loco on January 22, 2008, 12:00:37 PM

True. I believe more than one major war involving Israel has been prevented this way. I'm not saying this is a reason why the US should continue to support Israel, but stopping US military and economic aid to Israel would be to "unleash" Israel. Israel would bomb Iran and anyone else who threatens Israel in a heart beat.

As an individual, I support Israel and always will.

I'm not sure about that, Israel has become soft lately. I'm afraid it's not the same country that dominated the Arabs in the Six Day War.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2008, 01:35:58 PM »

Oh I don't know..7 minutes from every major Arab capital..great Intelligence network, especially in Europe and the arab world. Were another hedge against Soviet expansion in the Middle East....democracy....of course they have a major interest and lobby in this country...so does the NRA, the Sierra clob etc etc..whats ur point. The Israeli army crushed several Soviet supplied arab armies...where would those armies have gone and done if there was a weakened Israel..they would have fought each other over land that supplies the West with Oil. Sometime the grasp of US economic and stategic policy is beyond most of u. Some of u confuse morals/ethics and likeing Jews to supporting a country against countries that are decidedly anti-Western. We are pretty tight with Israel, if Israel no longer benefitted us, we might support them less. They are of immense stategic importance to this country.

Bindare_Dundat · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2008, 06:09:49 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on January 22, 2008, 01:35:58 PM

Oh I don't know..7 minutes from every major Arab capital..great Intelligence network, especially in Europe and the arab world. Were another hedge against Soviet expansion in the Middle East....democracy....of course they have a major interest and lobby in this country...so does the NRA, the Sierra clob etc etc..whats ur point. The Israeli army crushed several Soviet supplied arab armies...where would those armies have gone and done if there was a weakened Israel..they would have fought each other over land that supplies the West with Oil. Sometime the grasp of US economic and stategic policy is beyond most of u. Some of u confuse morals/ethics and likeing Jews to supporting a country against countries that are decidedly anti-Western. We are pretty tight with Israel, if Israel no longer benefitted us, we might support them less. They are of immense stategic importance to this country.

How do you fee labout Isreal sending spies to the US to steal confidential, top secret information?

JOHN MATRIX · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2008, 06:14:09 PM »

i could see them being an asset during the cold war but nowadays no.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2008, 06:19:07 PM »

I feel we use people for our own ends so, feeling that way(Israel)...I'm not happy and the Pollard..he should have been shot. It discourages the rest of them.

Jonathan Pollard is an American of Jewish descent, born in Galveston Texas, who established a career as an intelligence analyst for the US Navy. There have been many theories offered as to why Pollard decided to betray his country of birth to the Jewish state, but that Pollard did betray his country of birth to Israel is beyond all doubt. Pollard’s defense was that he did not spy so much against the United States, only that he spied for Israel, sending them documents that in his opinion the US should have shared with Israel anyway.

That it was never Pollards job to decide what documents Israel should have was apparently irrelevant. Pollard arrogated that authority to himself. From his position of trust within the US Navy, Pollard delivered over 1000 classified documents to Israel for which he was well paid. Included in those documents were the names of over 150 US agents in the Mideast, who were eventually “turned” into agents for Israel.

Bodvar · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2008, 06:28:12 AM »

Quote from: Bindare_Dundat on January 22, 2008, 06:09:49 PM

How do you fee labout Isreal sending spies to the US to steal confidential, top secret information?

What do you think we don't spy on them?

Everybody spies on each other, it has always been this way.

But of course it's only a big deal when the jews do it.

Bindare_Dundat · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2008, 08:17:19 AM »

Quote from: Bodvar on January 23, 2008, 06:28:12 AM

What do you think we don't spy on them?

Everybody spies on each other, it has always been this way.

But of course it's only a big deal when the jews do it.

So you were fine with Americans spying for the Russians huh?

Bodvar · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2008, 09:45:16 AM »

Quote from: Bindare_Dundat on January 23, 2008, 08:17:19 AM

So you were fine with Americans spying for the Russians huh?

I don't even know what your talking about. Be more specific.