Author Topic: bcaa's and aa ratios...  (Read 2416 times)

romeo

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bcaa's and aa ratios...
« on: January 22, 2008, 12:47:35 PM »
are all bcaa powders equal? or do you get what you pay for?

How important is it to ensure that your protein powder has a full 22aa ratio profile?
I know a supp company owner (absolutely no names) who is saying his protien powder is supreme as it has 22 aa's in perfect ratios?

Would it suffice to eat tons of beef, chicken each day? and then maybe add some bcaas?

busyB

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2008, 01:02:17 PM »
are all bcaa powders equal? or do you get what you pay for?

How important is it to ensure that your protein powder has a full 22aa ratio profile?
I know a supp company owner (absolutely no names) who is saying his protien powder is supreme as it has 22 aa's in perfect ratios?

Would it suffice to eat tons of beef, chicken each day? and then maybe add some bcaas?

Bcaa powder and Protein powder are two different things.

Whey will have all 22 aminos and most blended proteins will as well. Soy will not have the full profile. All supplement company owners say they have the best ratio but most buy their raw materials at the same source, I believe....

Eat 1 g. per lb of bodyweight a day and drink a BCAA powder while you train.


The Squadfather

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2008, 01:10:59 PM »
two absolutely phenomenal products are Universal Nutrition's EAA powder and MRM's BCAA+Glutamine.

DK II

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2008, 01:47:20 PM »
BCAA should have a ratio of 50% Leucine, 25% Isoleucine and 25% Valine.

romeo

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2008, 03:24:08 PM »
there is a protein powder that claims that because it has all theh 22 aa's (in perfect ratio) there is no need for bcaas... so i.e. if you take the protein post w/o you dont need bcaas as all the aminos are already there..

 :-\?

The Squadfather

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2008, 04:03:08 PM »
there is a protein powder that claims that because it has all theh 22 aa's (in perfect ratio) there is no need for bcaas... so i.e. if you take the protein post w/o you dont need bcaas as all the aminos are already there..

 :-\?
i agree but the new "in" thing seems to be to take specific amino's post workout instead of whey protein.

laurion

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2008, 04:33:54 PM »
Does anyone know if there any negative effects of consuming too many BCAA's ?  I've heard too much Glutamine can cause an insulin spiking effect, anyone else heard of this?

The Squadfather

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2008, 04:37:06 PM »
Does anyone know if there any negative effects of consuming too many BCAA's ?  I've heard too much Glutamine can cause an insulin spiking effect, anyone else heard of this?
probably nothing, people consume 400-500 grams of protein daily so i don't think consuming "too many" BCAA's would do any harm, seems like it would be cost prohibitive to take too many anyway.

laurion

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 04:48:48 PM »
probably nothing, people consume 400-500 grams of protein daily so i don't think consuming "too many" BCAA's would do any harm, seems like it would be cost prohibitive to take too many anyway.

Not really ....
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/bcaa-s-1-kilo.html
http://customnutritionwarehouse.com/bcaas-p-160.html
5 grams for each shake from a kilo goes a long way.  I was just curious because products like Dymatize Elite Whey advertises a dose of 4 grams of glutamine and 5+ grams of BCAA's per scoop.  So in a 2 scoop shake you get quite a bit so should you add more ?

Necrosis

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2008, 07:11:51 PM »
taking BCAA'S with protein is somewhat of a problem as they fuck up each others digestion and absorption. but BCAA;s unlike other aminos cannot be utilized by the liver so there metabolism is different. eating a complete protein will give you bcaa's but its effects are much better if you take it seperately due to competition down stream. leucine is by far the most imp amino.


glutamine is a substrate for gluconeogenesis so it will be used to create sugar, if your using glutamine for muscle building then you might as well buy a bag of sugar as thats all its going to do. the research is there, glutamine is useless for bodybuilding. i love glutamine for other things but about .05 % is left undegraded by HCL in the gut.


id take glutamine for dopaminergic increase and for sleep issues. its also decent for immune function, not sold on this. and great and a bulking agent and substrate for the gut.

laurion

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2008, 07:15:41 PM »
I have to say that I believe you and that was very informative, but I always ask anyway ...
Sources ?

laurion

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 07:22:34 PM »
Several questions regarding post ......

taking BCAA'S with protein is somewhat of a problem as they fuck up each others digestion and absorption. How ? but BCAA;s unlike other aminos cannot be utilized by the liver so there metabolism is different. How ? eating a complete protein will give you bcaa's but its effects are much better if you take it seperately due to competition down stream. Explain ? leucine is by far the most imp amino. Why ?


glutamine is a substrate for gluconeogenesis so it will be used to create sugar, if your using glutamine for muscle building then you might as well buy a bag of sugar as thats all its going to do. the research is there, glutamine is useless for bodybuilding. i love glutamine for other things but about .05 % is left undegraded by HCL in the gut.


id take glutamine for dopaminergic increase and for sleep issues. its also decent for immune function, not sold on this. and great and a bulking agent and substrate for the gut.

Princess L

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2008, 07:56:23 PM »
I have to say that I believe you and that was very informative, but I always ask anyway ...
Sources ?


I'm not so sure we need sources on this one.  It's a well known fact that BCAA's (free form) compete with protein for absorption.  The BCAA container usually states that in it's directions.
:

Necrosis

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 08:14:09 PM »
Several questions regarding post ......



there are multiple reasons some i understand and some i dont. but aminos are substrates for alot of enzymatic processes and them themselves must be cleaved from proteins to peptides to free-form, there is only so much enzyme and each amino has unique function etc.. its the most complicated topic in biochem no doubt, but competition for liver enzymes, is one reason and  depending on what aminos you supply the body, the body will use them differently. for example some aminos are used for hemoglobin, some for other protein complexes. taking them seperately almost gurantees no competition or co-utilization. there are multiple other reasons however, such as decreases intestinal uptake. single aminos have drug like effects, but combined it just makes it protein.

like taking tyrosine to increase catecholamines for mood enhancement is great, but it doesnt happen from eating whole protein, or taking trypthophan for similar reasons(serotonin however), but in concert it works much less so.

down stream just means after they have been converted in protein, or affects further down the biochemical line.

leucine in studies has shown to actually increase protein systhesis to appreciable amounts unlike other aminos and has research to support its use in bodybuilding unlike glutamine.

ngm21084

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2008, 10:35:36 AM »
how long would it be ideal to space your pwo bcaa and pwo whey shake??

candidizzle

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2008, 11:57:13 AM »
in regards to the lst question

bcaa's are awesome when dieting, and in between meals to increase protein synthesis.  but when trying to put on size  you are better off going with a whey protein shake before, during and after weight training ....whey is essentially just a large dosage of bcaa's with all the other aa's in there as well.    and while bcaa's are essential for protein synthesis, your body cannot actually repair muscle tissue without all of the eaa's present.     

Markoni

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2008, 01:07:19 PM »
I'm using Poliquins protocol for BCAA ,  I use  4:1:1 ratio BCAAs ,   taking 0.44g per kg of body weight ,  on training days  half before workout and half of day dose after workout ,  on non training days I use BCAA loading  , 4x 10g

laurion

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2008, 05:00:50 PM »
I take 3 protein shakes a day always....
One in the morning as soon as I wake up, one post workout and one as my 5th meal 2 hours before dinner.
The shakes are usually double scoops of 26 grams a scoop and contain 5+ grams BCAA's and 4 grams of Glutamine.  I used to add more glutamine and BCAA's but stopped because it was a waste don't you think?

Necrosis

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 10:19:34 PM »
I take 3 protein shakes a day always....
One in the morning as soon as I wake up, one post workout and one as my 5th meal 2 hours before dinner.
The shakes are usually double scoops of 26 grams a scoop and contain 5+ grams BCAA's and 4 grams of Glutamine.  I used to add more glutamine and BCAA's but stopped because it was a waste don't you think?

BCAA'S no, glutamine is a waste for bodybuilding purposes. spend your money on another supp if your looking for anabolism

Emmortal

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2008, 10:38:26 PM »
The majority of oral glutamine gets absorbed in the gut so it's good for general gut health but as usmoke said, useless for bodybuilding purposes.

DK II

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2008, 12:14:03 AM »
The majority of oral glutamine gets absorbed in the gut so it's good for general gut health but as usmoke said, useless for bodybuilding purposes.

i always wonder how anything that is good for overall health could be bad for bodybuilding!!

At least if we talk natural bodybuilding here, your body will need all the help it can get to RECOVER fast from workouts.
Glutamine helps a lot here. Even IF it is all used up by the gut, that means yor gut is satisfied and the rest of the protein coming down will be used better in the muscles. It helps keeping the immune system running, and this is needed for any bodybuilder.

You guys take fish oil and other stuff for general health, but when it comes to glutamine, everyone screams. Glutamine isn't expensive too, there's no need for 30g portions, just take 3-4 gram PWO and before bed, best would be sublingually.

busyB

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 07:41:23 AM »
i always wonder how anything that is good for overall health could be bad for bodybuilding!!

At least if we talk natural bodybuilding here, your body will need all the help it can get to RECOVER fast from workouts.
Glutamine helps a lot here. Even IF it is all used up by the gut, that means yor gut is satisfied and the rest of the protein coming down will be used better in the muscles. It helps keeping the immune system running, and this is needed for any bodybuilder.

You guys take fish oil and other stuff for general health, but when it comes to glutamine, everyone screams. Glutamine isn't expensive too, there's no need for 30g portions, just take 3-4 gram PWO and before bed, best would be sublingually.

Agreed. Plus, when I am taking my glutamine regularly, never seem to get a cold!!

The Squadfather

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2008, 07:47:08 AM »
I take 3 protein shakes a day always....
One in the morning as soon as I wake up, one post workout and one as my 5th meal 2 hours before dinner.
The shakes are usually double scoops of 26 grams a scoop and contain 5+ grams BCAA's and 4 grams of Glutamine.  I used to add more glutamine and BCAA's but stopped because it was a waste don't you think?
holy shit man you must be a huge monster, post your picture.

Necrosis

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 07:51:13 AM »
i always wonder how anything that is good for overall health could be bad for bodybuilding!!

At least if we talk natural bodybuilding here, your body will need all the help it can get to RECOVER fast from workouts.
Glutamine helps a lot here. Even IF it is all used up by the gut, that means yor gut is satisfied and the rest of the protein coming down will be used better in the muscles. It helps keeping the immune system running, and this is needed for any bodybuilder.

You guys take fish oil and other stuff for general health, but when it comes to glutamine, everyone screams. Glutamine isn't expensive too, there's no need for 30g portions, just take 3-4 gram PWO and before bed, best would be sublingually.


there are cheaper and more effective things for what you want it for. it has no anabolic or anti catabolic propoerties. HOWEVER, i take glutatmine for immune and gut health so i love the shit. ;D

DK II

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Re: bcaa's and aa ratios...
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2008, 07:52:13 AM »
holy shit man you must be a huge monster, post your picture.

STFU