Author Topic: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy  (Read 1462 times)

gtbro1

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Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« on: January 22, 2008, 01:19:19 PM »
    I read this on another site......who thinks this is accurate example?

       
                                    Bar Stool Economics


Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay t heir bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.  But what about the other six men - the paying
customers?

How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'  They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33.

But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.  So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving s).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.  "I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him.  But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works:  The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. 

Decker

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2008, 02:41:39 PM »
I'm still looking for the punchline to this joke.



Brandon 805

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2008, 02:52:02 PM »
nice post!

Dos Equis

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2008, 03:08:59 PM »
[chuckle]   :)

gcb

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2008, 06:02:55 PM »
What you're really paying for when you pay taxes is infrastructure. It could be said that rich people access that infrastructure more successfully than poor people, they live in rich suburbs with better facilities etc. Not to mention how do you decide in the first place that one man should be paid $1 million dollars a year and another $20K. Let's see all those rich millionaires in the middle of the congo jungle with no infrastructure and no little cogs in the machine doing the work for them and see how many millions they make.

Butterbean

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2008, 07:08:53 PM »
hehehe
R

gtbro1

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 10:40:09 AM »
I'm still looking for the punchline to this joke.




   There is no punchline. It wasn't a joke. It was a public service announcement.

      Unemployed = free beer


























               and welfare cheese. ( best cheese there is)

Butterbean

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2008, 03:02:05 PM »
   There is no punchline. It wasn't a joke. It was a public service announcement.

      Unemployed = free beer


























               and welfare cheese. ( best cheese there is)
One set of my grandparents received goverment cheese.  It was good....like Velveeta....melts on a grilled sandwich like a dream :)   

R

gtbro1

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 09:00:17 AM »
One set of my grandparents received goverment cheese.  It was good....like Velveeta....melts on a grilled sandwich like a dream :)   



   yup. I date welfare mom's to get their cheese.


























jk ;D

Slapper

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 08:51:26 AM »
In other words, rich people are necessary for the survival of the remaining, and lesser, beings.

And, of course, I'm supposed to believe that.

FUCK YOU!!!!

Butterbean

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 02:35:35 PM »
In other words, rich people are necessary for the survival of the remaining, and lesser, beings.


I don't think the example is talking about rich people being necessary for other people's survival. 

The way I read it is a small percentage of people pay most of the taxes and that's usually fine w/everyone else until a tax-break for the rich is implemented; then some others will feel slighted and claim it's unfair.
R

Dos Equis

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 02:41:11 PM »
I don't think the example is talking about rich people being necessary for other people's survival. 

The way I read it is a small percentage of people pay most of the taxes and that's usually fine w/everyone else until a tax-break for the rich is implemented; then some others will feel slighted and claim it's unfair.

Ding!   :)

~flower~

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 04:52:24 PM »
I don't think the example is talking about rich people being necessary for other people's survival. 

The way I read it is a small percentage of people pay most of the taxes and that's usually fine w/everyone else until a tax-break for the rich is implemented; then some others will feel slighted and claim it's unfair.

 Unfair!!   ::)

Decker

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 08:01:13 AM »
I don't think the example is talking about rich people being necessary for other people's survival. 

The way I read it is a small percentage of people pay most of the taxes and that's usually fine w/everyone else until a tax-break for the rich is implemented; then some others will feel slighted and claim it's unfair.
Regarding income tax, all people pay the same income tax at the same graded levels.  The more you earn, the more tax you pay on the amounts earned in that particular tax bracket.  So those in the top bracket do not pay a 35% income tax on all their income, they just pay that rate for dollars qualifying for the top bracket.

If the top marginal tax rate is reduced, then only those people in that top bracket receive a tax cut.


That's why it can be viewed as unfair.

By today's ridiculous definition of class warfare, that tax cut on only the high-end earners is class warfare against those not in the top bracket b/c those not in the top bracket receive no tax cut.

Likewise, any tax hike based on the top marginal rate is not class warfare on the rich. 

Slapper

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 05:41:51 AM »
I don't think the example is talking about rich people being necessary for other people's survival. 

The way I read it is a small percentage of people pay most of the taxes and that's usually fine w/everyone else until a tax-break for the rich is implemented; then some others will feel slighted and claim it's unfair.

Well, I DO read between the lines, and the overall message that you get from the text is the usual "be thankful for what you have and do not complaint". Heard that before and still say "bullshit!".

Look, bottom line is a fair, equal, system of taxation takes money from those who make a lot more money than they actually need and pass it along to the ones who need it most. It's always been like that throughout history and it ain't gonna stop now. There isn't a single case IN HISTORY in which the tax payers who paid the most bailed out on the middle and low class. The reason is they need you and your pockets.

I refuse to be thankful to these people for paying higher taxes because I take part in the very system from which they get the extra funds to pay for the extra taxes. I'd call myself a financial masochist. Look, bottom line is this, just ask yourself who would lose more if the economy took a perpetual nosedive. Inversely, who would profit more? That's right! A person who has 100 million in the bank will lose more than a person who has 100 dollars in the bank (if the economy takes a dowturn). So, in essence, it is in the interest of the higher tax-payer to shut the fuck up and play the game. Hence the argument from Mr Kamerschen is faulty from the start.

Look , we've been taught that the "elites" have some life plan that we, small people, do not get. In fact there's plenty of people who try to tell us how to run our lives on TV every 5 minutes. Bottom line is, and to get back to the subject at hand, beer has been, is and will be around long before, now and thereafter taxes are done away with. Stop fucking thinking that the rich have some fucking plan on how to run the "mothership". They don't!!!!

Lame truth is, and the professor should know this, is that the richests 5% do pay taxes, although they DO NOT pay their fair share. And don't get me started with the friggin corporations! We live in a system in which profits are spread amongst only a handful of individuals and losses are passed on to the masses. I mean, they won't teach you this in school, but all you have to do is to look around you.

Has anyone ever looked at an IRS booklet? Have you ever wandered why it is illegible? Have you ever wandered why the IRS manual is 900+ pages long of nothing but small print? That's right, cause there's certain stuff that needs to be hidden. The reason the IRS manual is 900 pages long is because there are so many tax breaks for the rich and upper middle class that it is literally running out of pages. Am I supposed to feel bad because some rich Texan #### paid $20 million drilling for oil in Ecuador and gets back 10 million from the IRS?

And by the way, I ain't talking communist bullshit!

Butterbean

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2008, 03:03:10 PM »

Slapper, do you live in America?  If so, do you feel that in America's free society in general everyone has an opportunity to be "successful?"


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gcb

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2008, 06:12:24 PM »
Good points Slapper. The rich like to pretend they are creating more value and that is why they make more money. But that is in fact debatable - take for example Donald Trump - how many high rise towers would he putting up without construction workers to actually do the job.

Slapper

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2008, 08:10:41 AM »
Slapper, do you live in America?
 

Yes.

Quote
If so, do you feel that in America's free society in general everyone has an opportunity to be "successful?"

No.

Slapper

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Re: Bar stool economics- tax breaks for the wealthy
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2008, 08:30:34 AM »
Good points Slapper. The rich like to pretend they are creating more value and that is why they make more money. But that is in fact debatable - take for example Donald Trump - how many high rise towers would he putting up without construction workers to actually do the job.

Exactly. How we ever got to the point of thinking that the upper classes are "necessary" and that they need to be "pampered", from a fiscal point of view, or else the whole enchilada's going down the drain is beyond me. I think we all agree that Trump pays more taxes than you and I do, although, PROPORTIONATELY, he does not. He gets more in 1 tax break from Mr Bloombitch than the entire population of the city will get back, during their lifetime, from the IRS. And this is the reason why I decided to answer STella's 2nd question with a no. It's not about opportunity, it's about EQUAL opportunity.

All is tutti-fruti unless you mess with Big Money America. If you do then you will be treated in... well, let's say "very un-American ways". Is that a "free" society? No.