Test/EQ/Tren Cycle - When to start PCT/Stop Different compounds

[shmay]

Hey Guys,

Getting near the end of a Test Enth, EQ and Tren cycle, also running arimidex at .5 mg ed. I know I should wait 2 weeks after my last test shot before starting PCT, but I'm not sure how I should time EQ, Tren and the arimidex. EQ has a longer half life and Tren is shorter...

Here are my cycle details:

Test Enth Wk 1-15      625 mg/wk
EQ           WK 1-15     600 mg/wk
Tren         Wk 9-15     100 mg/eod
Arimidex     Wk 1-15      0.5 mg ed

Running Nolva for PCT


Should I stop the EQ before the test to give it more time before pct? Also, should I be running Aidex right until I start Nolva or stop when I stop the test.

Help is much appreciated, thanks boys.

[trab]

1. Have you ever come off before?

[shmay]

Yea, this is my third cycle, but this is my first time using EQ and Tren.

Previous cycles were sust and dbol to start.

Looking for some timing advice.

[trab]

Knowing waht to expect is the most important. Affirmative you been there...

Longest acting compound is key.
YOur running 3 together till the end.

TE is longest acting, but Tren is also very suppressive.

I'd personally drop to one compound only at the end, but I come off completely for months.
If your a 4-6 week off only kind of guy.... it dont matter if you run all three till D-day.

SHit, I'd not even stop at all if ya only break taht long (4-6weeks) because your really never off to speak of like taht..

I tapper down the TE at the end, this is pretty unpopular w/ the nonstop users.

How long ya plan to come off?
How recovery went last time, how long off the last cycles?
Remember, if that sustanon were real, it was keeping you from crashing for a FULL MONTH after the final shot. Were you actually clean when you restarted your next cycle you need to ask self.

Im not trying to be a asshole, its just there is a shitload of guys that never really come off and dont even know it. ANd there is a shitload that CANT  because they start to feel like crap and hop back on.
That is unnecessary if you dont drop like a rock at the end.

Tapering off is the smooth way at the end.... But WTF do I know, I been using the real deal for a decade and can actually come off the stuff. I also still have decent natural level at age 47.

I'd personally bring it down to TE only in a orderly reduction of dose and elimination of the EQ & TRen prior.
An extra month at HRT dose of 200TE ew only lets things settle down, and you'll still be strong and swole.

IF the nuts are small or acting "High & Tight" I use HCG at 1000iu every 3rd day  w/ 20mg nolva.
Then 50-100mg of Clomid for 2 weeks after the HCG vial is empty.
Then a month of nolva only 20mg ed.

[Arnold jr]

Here are my cycle details:

Test Enth Wk 1-15      625 mg/wk
EQ           WK 1-15     600 mg/wk
Tren         Wk 9-15     100 mg/eod
Arimidex     Wk 1-15      0.5 mg ed

Running Nolva for PCT

Run everything up to wk 15...including adex...stop adex at end of wk 15 with everything else.

Start PCT 2wks later.

Personally, I don't like a nolva only PCT for a cycle like this...I'd want some HCG in there as well...about 10days worth before I started the nolva.

Trab makes some good points as always, but if the HCG is in the PCT, I've found that there is no crash...I've gotten to where I run some heavy long PCT and since then I've had zero problems.

[shmay]

Thanks for the Feedback guys,

I had planned on running nolva for 40/40/20/20/20

So it seems clear that I should be getting some HCG as well, and I like trab's idea of running the test a bit longer solo.

AJ you mentioned you like long and hard pct? What kind of dosages and times are you talking about?

If I'm grabbing some HCG do you think it is necessary to add aromasin to match? ala Anthony Roberts

[trab]

Run everything up to wk 15...including adex...stop adex at end of wk 15 with everything else.

Start PCT 2wks later.

Personally, I don't like a nolva only PCT for a cycle like this...I'd want some HCG in there as well...about 10days worth before I started the nolva.

Trab makes some good points as always, but if the HCG is in the PCT, I've found that there is no crash...I've gotten to where I run some heavy long PCT and since then I've had zero problems.

Yeah, you wont crash if you artifically stimulate the testes. But dont think for one second that your "Recoverd".

Prove taht to self by staying off for several weeks and see how feel and how much weight loss, fat gain,
emotional state.

If they intend on coming off for even the "Time on = TIme off" (And I could give a rats ass peraonaly)
Going down to 1 compound and tappering it down will be the less CRASH.
They will have a much easier time and less chance of being stuck on a permanent "cycle" that is really not yeilding
all that much (ANy TBH) true gains anyway. Guys that jump back on because they dont feel good or right are simply
drug addicts of a minor sort.
THe thing is, this is totally unnecessary with anabolic steroids if you bring it down slow.

Comming off all 3 of them at once is going to GodSmack anyone as soon as the HCG/clomid is out of the system.
He'll be right back on prolly before it even clears to Zero level.

Many young guys here are going to be in for a real nasty surprise if/ when they every HAVE to COME OFF completely for some reason or another.
Also, imparing fretility to taht degree with basicly permanent steroid use may be somthing they regret and should
not be led into thinking they are "off" "recovered" or normal in any way.
Its artificial stimulaton to bridge the inability of the body do its function.

I really dont give a crap what anyone does taht knows WTF  they are doing to them self, but dont lead them to believe taht they are allready functioning as normal like that - Because they are not.

Ive got a folder full of blood work  including sperm counts/ motility  from the lasst decade to prove it.





But WTF do I know.........

[Arnold jr]

Yeah, you wont crash if you artifically stimulate the testes. But dont think for one second that your "Recoverd".

Prove taht to self by staying off for several weeks and see how feel and how much weight loss, fat gain,
emotional state.

If they intend on coming off for even the "Time on = TIme off" (And I could give a rats ass peraonaly)
Going down to 1 compound and tappering it down will be the less CRASH.
They will have a much easier time and less chance of being stuck on a permanent "cycle" that is really not yeilding
all that much (ANy TBH) true gains anyway. Guys that jump back on because they dont feel good or right are simply
drug addicts of a minor sort.
THe thing is, this is totally unnecessary with anabolic steroids if you bring it down slow.

Comming off all 3 of them at once is going to GodSmack anyone as soon as the HCG/clomid is out of the system.
He'll be right back on prolly before it even clears to Zero level.

Many young guys here are going to be in for a real nasty surprise if/ when they every HAVE to COME OFF completely for some reason or another.
Also, imparing fretility to taht degree with basicly permanent steroid use may be somthing they regret and should
not be led into thinking they are "off" "recovered" or normal in any way.
Its artificial stimulaton to bridge the inability of the body do its function.

I really dont give a crap what anyone does taht knows WTF  they are doing to them self, but dont lead them to believe taht they are allready functioning as normal like that - Because they are not.

Ive got a folder full of blood work  including sperm counts/ motility  from the lasst decade to prove it.





But WTF do I know.........

Trab, you make some good points, but I still disagree for the most part. Now, if a guy was to come off cycle, and run a PCT of 2-3wks of say just nolva...which a lot of guys do...then he may very well have some of those problems you're talking about...even if he adds in the HCG he could have these problems...this is why I do my PCT runs a bit differently then the standard 3wk run of just nolva or clomid.

I have done the 3wk simple PCT and had some issues in the past just like you're talking about. I remember one of my first test/deca cycles was extremely hard to come off of. I lost a lot of weight, a lot of strength and felt really tired...I didn't lose everything but more then I should have.

These days things work a lot better. I don't fall off hardly at all...I always feel great even after a long cycle, my weight and strength don't bottom out, etc. Of course, I credit the way I eat to be a huge factor in this.

AJ you mentioned you like long and hard pct? What kind of dosages and times are you talking about?

Bare in mind, I'm not saying this is for you...I'll just lay out what I do...seems to work well...also, I run some heavier longer cycles, so that should be taken into account IMO.

Day 1-10 hcg 1000iu/ed This begins about 7 days after my last injection if the cycle ends with slow acting drugs. I start it a day or 2 after the cycle if it ends with things like prop, tren, etc

After HCG run, I begin clomid and nolva and it usually goes something like this.

Day 1-3: clomid 300mg/ed
Day 4-6: clomid 200mg/ed
Day 7: clomid 100mg/ed nolva 40mg/ed
wk 2: clomid 50mg/ed nolva 40mg/ed
wk 3: nolva 40mg/ed
wk 4: nolva 30mg/ed
wk 5: nolva 20mg/ed
wk 6: (only if I feel I need it) same as wk 5

Now, on paper, running both clomid and nolva is not necessary. Personally, I don't care about what's on paper...all I care about is what works best for me.

If I'm grabbing some HCG do you think it is necessary to add aromasin to match? ala Anthony Roberts

I've never tried it.

[trab]

Coming off all three compounds at once is stupid - Period.

Stupid That is if he cares about restoring narural testo production w/ out  a major major lag of MANY long weeks of misery.

AJ, I;d like to see you actually make it past 4 weeks off on that...    Aint happenin' dude.

300mg of clomid is also just plain unnecessary and wreckless.
Shmay -Dude, if ya never took Clomid, DONT START WITH 300mgs! 




 

[Arnold jr]

Coming off all three compounds at once is stupid - Period.

Stupid That is if he cares about restoring narural testo production w/ out  a major major lag of MANY long weeks of misery.

AJ, I;d like to see you actually make it past 4 weeks off on that...    Aint happenin' dude.

300mg of clomid is also just plain unnecessary and wreckless.
Shmay -Dude, if ya never took Clomid, DONT START WITH 300mgs! 




 

Well, did this exact PCT back in August...after PCT didn't get back on for 6wks...no problems at all.

[trab]

AJ, dude I like you, but thats too much clomid; and its SO SO much easier to drop one compound at end of cycle.

ALl I can say (and Ive heard this recently) is that the UG shit is so underdosed that recovery is much easier than HG pharma.

I'd NEVER tell someone to drop this course hes considering all in one. 

Depressed,impotent, drop body weight like a rock....

Remember too, taht clomid load builds up and last awhile to.

If ya dont care if your body never runs on its own is one thing, but if you want it to get back on a even keel narurally, it take a lot longer than that.

I got NO MORAL thing here, only dont want you or other guys to think they are "OFF' when on.
Because tahts exactly waht happens LOTS. Artificial stim + longacting TE still in the system.


Its very possibel for young healthy (or old, but even easier for you) guys to come off TOTALLY clean and not lose more than 10lbs for your size guy, keep up strength pretty good, and feel fine (libido, emotionaly etc)



Ive got no shortage of guys PM with probs coming off and I just think bettter to clue them into the
issues of stoping and  get things back to normal.

This stuff can be a real bad time to come off a big course of it, and some of these guys are real
lost and messed. I suppose jumping back on would be one way.
But there are others.

I cant imagine taking 6 50mg tabs of clomid...

[Arnold jr]

One thing to keep in mind about me, I usually don't end cycles with anything long acting...at least not in a long time.

The last PCT I ran in Aug was followed by a pretty long cycle...but the last 8wks of the cycle looked like this:

test prop 200mg/eod
tren-a 75mg/ed
winny 50mg/ed
gh 4iu/ed
letro 1mg/eod

I can't remember exactly but I waited around 4-5 days before I started HCG for 10 days and then the clomid/nolva run began after that.

Like I said, I had zero problems...came off this cycle after 16wks of hard dieting. One thing to keep in mind, in this case, my bodyweight was already as low as it ever gets...going any lower and I'd be dead, lol!

Depressed, no...never get depressed any way.
Impotent, no

You're also right about that being a lot of clomid...and you're right about it building up in your system. But if you noticed, the clomid stopped after the end of the 2nd wk and it was nolva only for the next 4wks.

I've said before, this is not the way I'd advise most people to do things...it does work though. If someone runs a long cycle, which in my case is usually at least approx 24wks+ give or take, then a stronger PCT works better. Some don't need it though, some do. As for me, this is the only way I've been able to come off 100% smoothly.

[freakfestMD]

Lots of good thoughts here.  All probably correct in their own way.  Again, we all respond differently.

For me? I would have used low dose hcg throughout the cycle.  Too late for you, though.  As Rocky said in Rocky I to the guy who's thumb he was supposed to break:  "You shoulda planned ahead...you shoulda planned ahead".   Anyway:

If you can stop the present cycle at week 15 as is and switch out to test prop for another 4 weeks that would be ideal.  Keeps the cycle and gains going, gives the EQ and tren some time to clear.  Then run a "salvage" plan of hcg (1500iu 2x per week for 2 weeks would be fine). starting the week after the last test prop shot.  I'd also continue my arimidex through that phase of PCT, and slowly taper it out, with nolva at 20-30mg per day.  I did this on my last cycle and really experienced no hard crash and have kept very good gains for almost 5 months now.

[shmay]

Thanks for all the help guys,

Unfortunately, I can't get my hands on any Test prop, my source doesn't have any. However, I can get the Hcg and some more test-e so I will have to make it work with that.

I was planning on running 4 weeks of just Test E after week 15 to allow the EQ and Tren to clear out (thanks to AJ, Trab and Freakfest for the suggestions).

Then taking two weeks off before starting PCT With Nolva (40/30/20/20/20/10), Hcg (3000-3500 iu/wk for 3 weeks) and Aromasin (20 Mg/day for 3 weeks).

Do you guys think I should start the HCG at the same time as the Nolva (ie 2 weeks after last test shot) or start it a bit before?

[freakfestMD]

You can start the hcg the week after the cycle ends.  You do not have to wait until you start the Nolvadex for that.