Author Topic: Why do bad things happen to good people? (Read 3966 times)

columbusdude82 · « **on:** January 23, 2008, 03:57:42 PM »

This discussion of the problem of evil (theodicy) carries over from another thread.

Consider the following scenario: A nice little eight-year-old African girl is out collecting fruit. Other members of her tribe are collecting fruit nearby. A tiger sees her, pounces on her, kills her instantly and eats her. Why did such an awful thing happen to this little girl?

Pick one of these two explanations, and briefly tell us why you picked it:

MCWAY:

Quote

The wages of sin is DEATH!. As mentioned on multiple occasions, that is indeed the worst part about sin and sinful behavior: The transgressors aren't the only ones who suffer for it.

Look deep into your life and I'm sure you'll find times, where someone else has suffered (on some scale), because of something that you've done wrong. I'm sure you can find cases, where you've suffered because someone else did wrong.

Kids suffer, because of their parents' sins; Wives suffer, because of husbands' sins (and vice versa); Employees suffer, because of their bosses' sins; etc.

That is, the little girl died because either she sinned, or someone close to her sinned, and she was punished (by a loving god?!).

columbusdude82: Tigers are carnivorous predators. This tiger saw an easy lunch and pounced on it.

So pick one, and briefly tell us why.

Deicide · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:11:01 PM »

Good and Bad are terms we give to things, not inherent qualities of actions or things themselves. We live in a universe that is neither good nor bad, just one marked and personified by pitiless indifference. The theodicy is totally useless drivel and should not even garner discussion in the 21st century.

Deicide · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:14:53 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 23, 2008, 03:57:42 PM

This discussion of the problem of evil (theodicy) carries over from another thread.

Consider the following scenario: A nice little eight-year-old African girl is out collecting fruit. Other members of her tribe are collecting fruit nearby. A tiger sees her, pounces on her, kills her instantly and eats her. Why did such an awful thing happen to this little girl?

Pick one of these two explanations, and briefly tell us why you picked it:

MCWAY:
That is, the little girl died because either she sinned, or someone close to her sinned, and she was punished (by a loving god?!).

columbusdude82: Tigers are carnivorous predators. This tiger saw an easy lunch and pounced on it.

So pick one, and briefly tell us why.

Oh yes, please correct the ignorant statement; there are no tigers in Africa, perhaps you meant India?

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:16:48 PM »

Dude, it's a freakin' story. We can talk African tigers elsewhere! If you want to post to this thread, just pick one explanation and briefly say why. That's all!

Deicide · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:27:56 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 23, 2008, 04:16:48 PM

Dude, it's a freakin' story. We can talk African tigers elsewhere! If you want to post to this thread, just pick one explanation and briefly say why. That's all!

I did already. Theodicy=useless drivel.

Tre · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:33:30 PM »

Answer:

"There are no (non-captive) tigers in Africa."

OzmO · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2008, 05:00:08 PM »

lol, how about bears?

laurion · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2008, 05:09:33 PM »

Predators always choose the weak of the crowd it's pretty much the law of nature.... Only the strongest survive. Why does God have to be behind every little thing that happens on the planet? Perhaps it was just her time to die, maybe she wasn't meant for anything else in life but to be killed by an ill-placed Indian carnivore. Or you could argue that if one believes in an "All Mighty" than he should also believe in "the Devil." And if so then maybe he/she/it did the act.

loco · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2008, 05:56:43 AM »

Quote from: Trapezkerl on January 23, 2008, 04:14:53 PM

Oh yes, please correct the ignorant statement; there are no tigers in Africa, perhaps you meant India?

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 23, 2008, 04:16:48 PM

Dude, it's a freakin' story. We can talk African tigers elsewhere! If you want to post to this thread, just pick one explanation and briefly say why. That's all!

Quote from: Tre on January 23, 2008, 04:33:30 PM

"There are no (non-captive) tigers in Africa."

LOL...columbusdude82, I'm surprised. For someone who constantly insults other poster's intelligence, knowledge and education, specially in the field of Biology, I thought that you would know better than this.

Why did this happen to you? Now, that's the question.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2008, 06:02:38 AM »

Dude, it's a freakin' story. You should have no trouble believing there may be a tiger in Africa, given you believe that virgins can get pregnant and dead people can come back to life and fly into the sky

Would it help if I change it to "cheetah"?

loco · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2008, 06:42:35 AM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 24, 2008, 06:02:38 AM

Dude, it's a freakin' story. You should have no trouble believing there may be a tiger in Africa, given you believe that virgins can get pregnant and dead people can come back to life and fly into the sky

Would it help if I change it to "cheetah"?

The virgin birth of Jesus and his resurrection are miracles only possible through divine intervention. Is that how a wild tiger suddenly appeared in Africa? I thought you didn't believe in such things.

Butterbean · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2008, 06:55:11 AM »

lol @ this thread

OK but meanwhile back to your initial question coldude:

MCWAY's quote states that sin causes suffering and death.

His quote does not exclude other reasons that this girl may have been killed by the tiger.

In answer to your question regarding who sinned to cause this to happen.....when you get down to it.....it was Adam and Eve.

Deicide · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2008, 07:08:15 AM »

Quote from: STella on January 24, 2008, 06:55:11 AM

lol @ this thread

OK but meanwhile back to your initial question coldude:

MCWAY's quote states that sin causes suffering and death.

His quote does not exclude other reasons that this girl may have been killed by the tiger.

In answer to your question regarding who sinned to cause this to happen.....when you get down to it.....it was Adam and Eve.

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2008, 02:19:21 PM »

Quote from: loco on January 24, 2008, 06:42:35 AM

The virgin birth of Jesus and his resurrection are miracles only possible through divine intervention. Is that how a wild tiger suddenly appeared in Africa? I thought you didn't believe in such things.

How dare you question my belief in the Striped African Tiger?!

The Striped African Tiger is not subject to your demands for evidence! Once you have faith, only then can you experience the Striped African Tiger! For it is written in Isaiah, "By his stripes we are healed."

beatmaster · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2008, 03:35:41 PM »

loco · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2008, 04:17:43 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 24, 2008, 02:19:21 PM

How dare you question my belief in the Striped African Tiger?!

The Striped African Tiger is not subject to your demands for evidence! Once you have faith, only then can you experience the Striped African Tiger! For it is written in Isaiah, "By his stripes we are healed."

Forgive me! It was not my intention to offend your faith!

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2008, 04:34:15 PM »

Quote from: loco on January 24, 2008, 04:17:43 PM

Forgive me! It was not my intention to offend your faith!

You a-tigerists are all the same. Always talking about evidence? Well let me ask you this.

Do any of you a-tigerists have any "evidence" that the Striped African Tiger does NOT exist? Do you?

Just admit you lost, man. Admit that you don't have "evidence."

But the bigger question is: can we be good without the Striped African Tiger? If the Striped African Tiger does not exist, how can we be moral?

Once you stop believing the Striped African Tiger, next thing you know you'll be beating your grandma with a baseball bat to steal her insulin money...

You a-tigerists make me SICK!!! SICK, I tell you!!!

loco · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2008, 04:24:08 AM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 24, 2008, 04:34:15 PM

You a-tigerists are all the same. Always talking about evidence? Well let me ask you this.

Do any of you a-tigerists have any "evidence" that the Striped African Tiger does NOT exist? Do you?

Just admit you lost, man. Admit that you don't have "evidence."

But the bigger question is: can we be good without the Striped African Tiger? If the Striped African Tiger does not exist, how can we be moral?

Once you stop believing the Striped African Tiger, next thing you know you'll be beating your grandma with a baseball bat to steal her insulin money...

You a-tigerists make me SICK!!! SICK, I tell you!!!

I do believe in miracles. So if you are telling me that a tiger miraculously appeared in Africa, then I believe you.

Deedee · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2008, 10:25:20 AM »

C: Neither. This is a beautiful story of enduring life. No doubt, when the little girl was consumed, her soul immediately passed into the body of another, perhaps the newborn child of kings, or maybe into a family of affluent, bohemian freethinkers. Or as the blessed, spoilt new addition of a clan of expensive Italian shoe manufacturers.

And everyone knows that the animal kingdom is slowly becoming endangered while the world is overrun with humans, since animals eventually evolve into people as they reincarnate. So maybe after the villagers hunted down the tiger to avenge the little girl's death, it morphed into the soul of a beautiful woman with tawny hair and smoldering, cat-like eyes.

It's a story of hope and love.

OzmO · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2008, 10:28:53 AM »

Another good question would be why do good things happen to bad people?

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2008, 10:31:18 AM »

Quote from: Deedee on January 25, 2008, 10:25:20 AM

C: Neither. This is a beautiful story of enduring life. No doubt, when the little girl was consumed, her soul immediately passed into the body of another, perhaps the newborn child of kings, or maybe into a family of affluent, bohemian freethinkers. Or as the blessed, spoilt new addition of a clan of expensive Italian shoe manufacturers.

And everyone knows that the animal kingdom is slowly becoming endangered while the world is overrun with humans, since animals eventually evolve into people as they reincarnate. So maybe after the villagers hunted down the tiger to avenge the little girl's death, it morphed into the soul of a beautiful woman with tawny hair and smoldering, cat-like eyes.

It's a story of hope and love.

Got evidence?

Of the three explanations offered so far, yours and MCWAY's assume much bigger facts than the question they were trying to answer to begin with, whereas mine assumes only very basic, very well-known facts to answer the question.

I really don't mean to toot my own horn, but my explanation has the most explanatory power of the three!

Deedee · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2008, 01:08:29 PM »

Quote from: columbusdude82 on January 25, 2008, 10:31:18 AM

Got evidence?

Of the three explanations offered so far, yours and MCWAY's assume much bigger facts than the question they were trying to answer to begin with, whereas mine assumes only very basic, very well-known facts to answer the question.

I really don't mean to toot my own horn, but my explanation has the most explanatory power of the three!

A woman at the yoga center said so.

MCWAY · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2008, 01:17:04 PM »

Quote from: laurion on January 23, 2008, 05:09:33 PM

Predators always choose the weak of the crowd it's pretty much the law of nature.... Only the strongest survive. Why does God have to be behind every little thing that happens on the planet? Perhaps it was just her time to die, maybe she wasn't meant for anything else in life but to be killed by an ill-placed Indian carnivore. Or you could argue that if one believes in an "All Mighty" than he should also believe in "the Devil." And if so then maybe he/she/it did the act.

You seem to be undercutting your statements, here

"Perhaps, it was just her time to die".......According to whose schedule? Who booked her to be killed?

"maybe she wasn't meant for anything else in life but to be killed by an ill-placed Indian carnivore.".......Who's defining her purpose?

columbusdude82 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2008, 01:21:25 PM »

Quote from: Deedee on January 25, 2008, 01:08:29 PM

A woman at the yoga center said so.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2008, 01:58:45 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on January 25, 2008, 10:28:53 AM

Another good question would be why do good things happen to bad people?

Yep. Particularly people who have been bad for a very long time.