for the christians or other religious people

[Necrosis]

i dont care about the atheist to all other religions as thats been discussed. would you guys admit that you dismiss other relgions for valid reasons, but do not critically examine yours as you would others?

[Nordic Superman]

The koran is the infallible word of god; it's verses transcend time.

The laws in the koran were devised by god, they have been beside gods side since time began. Sharia law is as applicable now as it has been at any time, past or future.

How do you expect a muslim to critically examine this? It would be blasphemous to assume mans opinion's, ideas and laws are above that of gods.

[Dos Equis]

i dont care about the atheist to all other religions as thats been discussed. would you guys admit that you dismiss other relgions for valid reasons, but do not critically examine yours as you would others?

No.  I critically examine my faith all the time.  I had a rather spirited discussion with some friends the other day about whether all sins are equal.

[Necrosis]

No.  I critically examine my faith all the time.  I had a rather spirited discussion with some friends the other day about whether all sins are equal.

but dont you see that sins do not exist, for is they did then who is to absolve god of his sins?

[Dos Equis]

but dont you see that sins do not exist, for is they did then who is to absolve god of his sins?

Sin exists.  I see it everyday.  God hasn't committed any sins.  I doubt we will agree on this. . . .

But what you asked was whether Christians criticially examine their faith.  I do. 

[Necrosis]

Sin exists.  I see it everyday.  God hasn't committed any sins.  I doubt we will agree on this. . . .

But what you asked was whether Christians criticially examine their faith.  I do. 

no you dont, how can you if you dismiss all other relgions, in the thousands for various arguments which surely apply to your god as well, yet you still except your god. you do not critically review your god.

also, god said "thou shalt not kill" and murdered people, and was behind evil acts, as his is the originator of all, both good and evil.

[Dos Equis]

no you dont, how can you if you dismiss all other relgions, in the thousands for various arguments which surely apply to your god as well, yet you still except your god. you do not critically review your god.

also, god said "thou shalt not kill" and murdered people, and was behind evil acts, as his is the originator of all, both good and evil.

And how is it you know that I dismiss all other religions?  Even if I did, how do you know I haven't studied other religions? 

God said do not murder.  Satan is the originator of evil.

I guess we can go back and forth making categorical statements that neither one of us can prove all day.   

[Necrosis]

And how is it you know that I dismiss all other religions?  Even if I did, how do you know I haven't studied other religions? 

God said do not murder.  Satan is the originator of evil.

I guess we can go back and forth making categorical statements that neither one of us can prove all day.   

satan was made by god, god obviously has the capcity for evil if his creations contain this trait, satan included. also, he knows the future and thus it makes no sense. these two points absolutely prove that god is not all loving.

why do you dismiss ALLAH, or zeus?

[Dos Equis]

satan was made by god, god obviously has the capcity for evil if his creations contain this trait, satan included. also, he knows the future and thus it makes no sense. these two points absolutely prove that god is not all loving.

why do you dismiss ALLAH, or zeus?

Lucifer was made by God.  He was created perfect and became evil. 

I haven't "dismissed" anything.  I have read about a number of different religions over the years and spent lots of time talking to people of different faiths, which only reinforced my belief in God and Christianity.  I don't believe that only people who believe the way I do or practice their faith the way I do will go to heaven.  One of my business partners is Buddhist.  He is a good man, honest as they come, and I consider him as "Christian" as any member of my Christian church.  He brought in a Buddhist priest to bless our office a couple years ago.  I participated in the ceremony, including the incense that was placed on my hand.  (Smell lasted for about two days.)  I went to a Mormon church and took part in their communion service.  One of my partners is Mormon and I think he too is a very good man.   

I've seen God work in my life and the lives of others countless times.  I've tested promises in the Bible and found them to be true.  All of these experiences have resulted in the beliefs I have today.         

[Decker]

Lucifer was made by God.  He was created perfect and became evil. 

...        

If he was truly perfect, he could not become unperfect by becoming evil--that would indicate a flaw. 

Perfection is static.

[Dos Equis]

If he was truly perfect, he could not become unperfect by becoming evil--that would indicate a flaw. 

Perfection is static.

Apparently not. 

[Necrosis]

Apparently not. 

thats the point dude you argument is defeated and doesnt make sense yet you reply with a response like, "oh well god works in mysterious ways"

if god created a being with the capacity for evil then god gave him that capacity, and therefore god has that capacity. it makes perfect sense.

god cannot be perfect and require worship. perfection is a whole missing nothing, thus no wants.

[Dos Equis]

thats the point dude you argument is defeated and doesnt make sense yet you reply with a response like, "oh well god works in mysterious ways"

if god created a being with the capacity for evil then god gave him that capacity, and therefore god has that capacity. it makes perfect sense.

god cannot be perfect and require worship. perfection is a whole missing nothing, thus no wants.

No that isn't the point.  A skeptic can always find a point in which they can hang their hat:  suffering, the death of a child, "bad" things happening to "good" people, etc.  I don't have answers for those things.  But you cannot simply say that because there are unanswered questions that God doesn't exist or that my faith is nonexistent.  I have seen God work in my life.  There is nothing you can do to change what I've already experienced and what I continue to witness on an ongoing basis.  Tough questions don't disprove my experiences and those of many others.  There are some things I simply cannot explain. 

There is plenty you and others can find to justify skepticism.  I choose to believe what I see.   

[Decker]

Apparently not. 

Uh huh.

[Deicide]

No that isn't the point.  A skeptic can always find a point in which they can hang their hat:  suffering, the death of a child, "bad" things happening to "good" people, etc.  I don't have answers for those things.  But you cannot simply say that because there are unanswered questions that God doesn't exist or that my faith is nonexistent.  I have seen God work in my life.  There is nothing you can do to change what I've already experienced and what I continue to witness on an ongoing basis.  Tough questions don't disprove my experiences and those of many others.  There are some things I simply cannot explain. 

There is plenty you and others can find to justify skepticism.  I choose to believe what I see.   

The hallmark of a closed mind; 'there is nothing you can...'

You do not have an open mind.

[Necrosis]

No that isn't the point.  A skeptic can always find a point in which they can hang their hat:  suffering, the death of a child, "bad" things happening to "good" people, etc.  I don't have answers for those things.  But you cannot simply say that because there are unanswered questions that God doesn't exist or that my faith is nonexistent.  I have seen God work in my life.  There is nothing you can do to change what I've already experienced and what I continue to witness on an ongoing basis.  Tough questions don't disprove my experiences and those of many others.  There are some things I simply cannot explain. 

There is plenty you and others can find to justify skepticism.  I choose to believe what I see.   

your mind is closed, its too late for you. everything that happens is random and is not caused by a sky daddy watching over every little aspect of your life. of the 100s of billions of stars and possible planets etc.. you think in this vast universe god is watching what you eat for breakfast, or that he made so much universe for our little existence?

also we are rube goldberg machines, to complex for our task and full of flaws.

[Dos Equis]

The hallmark of a closed mind; 'there is nothing you can...'

You do not have an open mind.

Oh don't get all 240 on me with the spliced and diced quotes.  The rest of that quote is "to change what I've already experienced and what I continue to witness on an ongoing basis."  Perhaps you can explain to me how you can change what I've already experienced?  How can you change what I continue to witness? 

[Dos Equis]

your mind is closed, its too late for you. everything that happens is random and is not caused by a sky daddy watching over every little aspect of your life. of the 100s of billions of stars and possible planets etc.. you think in this vast universe god is watching what you eat for breakfast, or that he made so much universe for our little existence?

also we are rube goldberg machines, to complex for our task and full of flaws.

Funny, I could say the same about you.  You sound pretty close minded on this whole God question to me. 

You know what?  I was just thinking today that it is amazing how God has every hair on my head numbered.  The fact He cares about me, a speck, is a testament to His love.  It's a beautiful thing mang. 

I like the "sky daddy" moniker.  I'm going to steal that one. 

[Necrosis]

Funny, I could say the same about you.  You sound pretty close minded on this whole God question to me. 

You know what?  I was just thinking today that it is amazing how God has every hair on my head numbered.  The fact He cares about me, a speck, is a testament to His love.  It's a beautiful thing mang. 

I like the "sky daddy" moniker.  I'm going to steal that one. 

how does he care?


he lets children die everyday into circumstances he put them in

[Butterbean]

i dont care about the atheist to all other religions as thats been discussed. would you guys admit that you dismiss other relgions for valid reasons, but do not critically examine yours as you would others?

The guy in the video seems to make a lot of assumptions in reaching his conclusion and that people that already have a belief-system will not be objective.  I see the point he's trying to make and I do believe that for some his assumptions may be true but they are not true for everyone.  Some people do look at their existing belief system critically and objectively.  Some people want to believe what is true and are open to the possibility that they may be incorrect.

For instance, let's say he presented aspects of a belief system called "bong-eyes."  The bong-eyes religion presents certain miraculous aspects that can't be proven or tested or measured by science.  When they are presented to me as possible would I reject them automatically?  No, I wouldn't.  That is not being objective in my opinion.   Is that enough to make me follow a belief system?  No.  Now let's go a step further.  The bong-eyes belief system claims that I must worship my own big toe as god.  That is when I reject bong-eye and we go onto the next belief system card.   

how does he care?


he lets children die everyday into circumstances he put them in

smokey, I know you don't believe the bible is true but you do believe in a god, right?  What is the god you believe in like? 

[Butterbean]

your mind is closed, its too late for you.

Smoke, what do you mean "it's too late for [Beach]?"

Do you think Beach would be better off not believing in a God or believing in a different sort of God?

What if Beach is happy believing in the God of the bible and isn't hurting anyone w/his beliefs.  Why wouldn't that be OK w/you?

What do you mean "it's too late for [him]?"  Do you have something that will make his life more fulfilling than he feels it is now?

[Necrosis]

Smoke, what do you mean "it's too late for [Beach]?"

Do you think Beach would be better off not believing in a God or believing in a different sort of God?

What if Beach is happy believing in the God of the bible and isn't hurting anyone w/his beliefs.  Why wouldn't that be OK w/you?

What do you mean "it's too late for [him]?"  Do you have something that will make his life more fulfilling than he feels it is now?

i was being a little facetious with that comment, i would argue that his quality of life would probably be better due to the social networks of religious folks.

its too late for him to look objectively at his faith. once you accept emotions as truth you loose perspective.

[Dos Equis]

i was being a little facetious with that comment, i would argue that his quality of life would probably be better due to the social networks of religious folks.

its too late for him to look objectively at his faith. once you accept emotions as truth you loose perspective.

Dude, how many assumptions can you make in one thread?  What are my social networks? 

Wrong again about objectivity.  I constantly compare my beliefs with what I see around me.  Doing that is healthy and, as I said earlier, just reinforces my beliefs. 

[Necrosis]

Dude, how many assumptions can you make in one thread?  What are my social networks? 

Wrong again about objectivity.  I constantly compare my beliefs with what I see around me.  Doing that is healthy and, as I said earlier, just reinforces my beliefs. 

i said probably for one, and i would argue. i dont know you so i cant say for certain but most religious people often involve themselves in religious practice.

your beleif is the opposite of objectivity and is irrational since it is faith based. it is the very definition of irrationality, acceptance without sufficient proof. your evidence is subjective ie "ive seen god work in my life" this is firstly an emotional argument and a subjective one with no axioms to prove anything.

dont say your objective, because if you deny arguments against your god. why wont he heal an amputee? since he is so active in your life, working and such? wouldnt that be impressive?

[Dos Equis]

i said probably for one, and i would argue. i dont know you so i cant say for certain but most religious people often involve themselves in religious practice.

your beleif is the opposite of objectivity and is irrational since it is faith based. it is the very definition of irrationality, acceptance without sufficient proof. your evidence is subjective ie "ive seen god work in my life" this is firstly an emotional argument and a subjective one with no axioms to prove anything.

dont say your objective, because if you deny arguments against your god. why wont he heal an amputee? since he is so active in your life, working and such? wouldnt that be impressive?

If by "religious practice" you mean attending church, then I plead guilty.  About 50 out of 52 weeks of the year.  Other than church, the vast majority of my "social network" is non religious. 

So a faith-based belief is irrational?  How you figure?  Are you telling me there are no faith-based beliefs in your life at all? 

Seeing the results of my faith has nothing to do with emotion.  Yes it's subjective, but all personal experiences are subjective. 

I have no idea why God won't grow amputee another limb, nor do I know how a person wound up with this hypothetical missing a limb in the first place.